Help with "Archon of Nine" character for webcomic

[danielxcutter]

Hi.

So this is for a webcomic I have in the works, called XPeditious Retreat. One of the secondary characters is going to be an ECL 24 legendary adventurer, with a build mostly based on Darrin's Archon of Nine (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7627408#post7627408). Yes, I'm going to rule that it works, because I'm the author and if I say it works, it does.

So the thing is, I need a bit of help with this guy; specifically his crunch, as that will help me understand how he would work as an actual character.

1. As several people have told me, much of his early maneuvers before he gets the 9th level strikes will be boosts or counters, since the 9 9th-level strikes are more than enough. This is more than likely true, but it would help if someone gave me a more thorough breakdown of his build. I'm not asking for a level-by-level explanation, but an Iron Chef-styled one would be okay. Of course, you can just give a level-by-level one if you want to.:smallbiggrin:

2. To UMD or to not UMD? It is a class skill for Legacy Champion, after all. And he has allies who can supply him with powerful scrolls. Charisma isn't a dump stat for this guy either... But I'm not sure if he can spare the skillpoints. Oh, and he'll take four more levels of LC after finishing Ao9, if you want to know.

3. I want this guy to actually get milage from his Legacy Weapon. The thing is, the setting is homebrew and this guy isn't focused on one school, so no using the original Nine Swords from ToB. I'm looking for either a weapon that can be easily refluffed to fit or a way to make one of my own. There are rules for making a Legacy Weapon, you see.

4. Speaking of weapons, there's a weapon enhancement in ToB that gives a +1 bonus to hit if you know a maneuver from the matching school, which increases to a +3 when actually using it, that stacks with the others. So would a masterwork Tiger Claw Shadow Hand Setting Sun Desert Wind Diamond Mind Iron Heart Devoted Spirit White Raven Stone Dragon weapon be good for this character? Note: this is not his Legacy Weapon.

5. Any other advice, people?

[danielxcutter]

Edit bump.

[danielxcutter]

No one? Really?

[Darrin]

No one? Really?

It was a long post.



1. As several people have told me, much of his early maneuvers before he gets the 9th level strikes will be boosts or counters, since the 9 9th-level strikes are more than enough. This is more than likely true, but it would help if someone gave me a more thorough breakdown of his build. I'm not asking for a level-by-level explanation, but an Iron Chef-styled one would be okay. Of course, you can just give a level-by-level one if you want to.:smallbiggrin:


I'll see if I can reconstruct what I was thinking on the maneuver selection.

Swordsage 1: Burning Blade, Flame's Blessing (stance), Wind Stride, Moment of Perfect Mind, Counter Charge, Shadow Blade Technique, Wolf Fang Strike.

Desert Wind is usually regarded as underpowered because of the reliance on [fire] damage, which is the most common energy resistance/immunity, particularly at higher levels. However, there are some boosts and stances in there that I really do like, and Burning Blade is one of them (I'm a big TWF fan, and adding fire damage to a full attack hits my awesomesauce tastebuds. Spicy!) Wind Stride is there mostly as a placeholder, as it gets replaced with Fire Riposte a few levels later. And Flame's Blessing is a relatively easy way to gain immunity to [fire] damage.

Moment of Perfect Mind is considered mandatory on most melee builds. Although Swordsage and Mo9 have decent Will saves, that's no excuse to blow a Will save.

I'm not all that fond of Setting Sun, so mostly I was just looking for counters, and Counter Charge is a counter. It gets traded out later for Tornado Throw.

Shadow Blade Technique I like because it gives you two chances to roll a crit. I'm not quite sure why I kept it... probably just because Shadow Hand's 9th requires five prereqs, and I didn't see anything worth trading in.

Wolf Fang Strike is one of the few Tiger Claw maneuvers without prereqs, so it's required to get the other Tiger Claw maneuvers.

Swordsage 2: Sapphire Nightmare Blade, Island of Blades (stance).

Sapphire Nightmare Blade is mostly trade-fodder until I can get some of the Concentration-based strikes into the build. Island of Blades is awesomesauce. Who doesn't want a +2 attack bonus just for standing next to one of your allies?

Swordsage 3: Cloak of Deception

Another huge favorite. It's a boost that turns you invisible for the entire round. Even if you don't use it in combat, just think of the mischief you could do in a shop, marketplace, royal audience chamber...

Swordsage 4: Shadow Jaunt, Fire Riposte (replacing Wind Stride).

Shadow Jaunt is a 50' teleport that you can use over and over again. Oodles of utility. Fire Riposte is a counter that you can use whenever someone hits you, it doesn't burn an AoO, and it's a touch attack. Yeah, ok, so 4d6 [fire] damage may not mean much at higher levels, but it's better than a poke in the eye.

Swordsage 5: Death Mark, Assassin's Stance (stance).

I like Death Mark because it's an area effect that's good for clearing out mooks, and I felt like that would be useful for a melee build. Assassin's Stance was another "Must Have" in Shadow Hand. If you have room for it, it can qualify you for sneak-attack-related feats such as Staggering Strike or Craven (I consider gaining a stance that grants you sneak attack the same as having sneak attack as a "class feature").

Swordsage 6: Zephyr Dance, Insightful Strike (replacing Sapphire Nightmare Blade)

Zephyr Dance is a great NOPE! card. No [fire] damage to worry about, either! Insightful Strike seemed like a good damage-dealing strike to have at that level, at least better than SNB. Once you get 9th-level strikes, it's probably best as tradefodder, but for some reason I didn't trade it out... hmm. This should probably be swapped for Rapid Counter or Quicksilver Motion.

Swordsage 7: Comet Throw.

I needed another Setting Sun prereq. Also, it allows you to throw your opponent around, which is sorta-battlefield-control. Even better, you can throw your opponent into another opponent, and they both take damage.

Warblade 1: Steel Wind, Wall of Blades, Punishing Stance (stance), Sudden Leap

Ok, Warblade is where I grab a chunk of Iron Heart prereqs. Steel Wind is sorta a mini-pounce as a standard action, which stays pretty useful even after you get your BAB up above +6. Wall of Blades is another good NOPE! card. And Punishing Stance is maybe my favorite stance (bonus damage for TWF!). I also picked up Sudden Leap here because swift action movement is always nice to have.

Crusader 1: Crusader's Strike, Foehammer, Revitalizing Strike, Leading the Charge (stance), Lion's Roar, White Raven Tactics.

Crusaders don't have a lot of counters or boosts, but we've got two things we need to take care of here: get some Devoted Spirit prereqs, and pick up White Raven Tactics. Crusader's Strike gives you access to healing, and with a somewhat loose definition of "enemy" and "threat", it's essentially infinite out-of-combat healing. Foehammer is a "Mountain Hammer Wannabe" (it bypasses DR, which is very nice, but doesn't bypass hardness, which is disappointing), as I *really* wanted to take Mountain Hammer, but couldn't quite justify it, as Mountain Tombstone Strike has no prereqs, and Strike of Righteous Vitality *does* have three prereqs. Revitalizing Strike is another attack that also heals you, and the third prereq for SoRV.

To get WRT online, we grab Leading the Charge (great for the first round of combat, and the damage scales up), Lion's Roar (great boost, usually overlooked in favor or WRT), and then WRT. By RAW, you count as your own ally, but many DMs nerf this maneuver (or even outright ban it) so it can't be used on yourself or can only be used once per round.

If you want to stick with RAW on this one... then you may want to consider going the full-on Idiot Crusader route. Take Extra Granted Maneuver at 12th, and then for Mo9 1 and 2, give your +1 readied/granted maneuver to your Crusader base class (giving your new maneuvers/stances known to your Swordsage side), and then you'll have 5 known Crusader maneuvers and 5 granted Crusader maneuvers. This means at the start of every turn, you have no reserved maneuvers, and get a fresh hand of all five Crusader maneuvers, including WRT. You can then activate WRT on every count, starting with your initiative count, until just before the last creature in the round hasn't taken a turn. From there, you delay your turn until the next round and start the whole thing over. It's not quite infinite turns per round, but at least 10-15 or so.

Master of Nine 1: Pouncing Charge, Iron Heart Surge.

Two big "Must Have" maneuvers. Pouncing Charge is Charging Pounce! IHS is sort of a poster-boy for Rules Headaches, as it doesn't always work on the conditions where you think it should work (stunned/dazed), and works on some things where you think it shouldn't work (AMF, for example). There's also the whole "Light Sensitivity means sunlight dazzles me, dazzled is an adverse condition, duration until sundown can be expressed in rounds, so I'm going to get rid of the sun" shenanigans. I'm not sure how far you want to go with tongue-in-cheek fourth-wallery in your webcomic, but that could be an interesting threat...

Swordsage 8: Scorpion Parry, Death From Above (replacing Wolf Fang Strike).

Scorpion Parry is mostly there as a prereq for Tornado Throw... as a counter, it's pretty situational. Mirrored Pursuit is probably a much better pick there. Death From Above is one of my favorite strikes from Tiger Claw, because it combines some free movement with a standard attack. If you're looking for a boost rather than a strike, you could take Dancing Mongoose there instead.

Swordsage 9: Greater Insightful Strike, Shifting Defense (stance).

I took Greater Insightful Strike here, figuring it was a good damage-dealer at that level. If you prefer a boost, you can take Moment of Alacrity there. Shifting Defense is one of the more overpowered melee NOPE! cards, essentially "Abrupt Jaunt" for meatbags, although here it's not doing all that much because the build doesn't include Combat Reflexes. Add that and a high Dex, and you can negate most melee attacks just by making a 5' step outside of your opponent's reach. Also, I needed another prereq for Tornado Throw.

Swordsage 10: Raging Mongoose, Shadow Stride (replacing Shadow Jaunt).

Raging Mongoose is a boost mostly used for TWF, but even if you're only using one weapon or a two-hander, what's not to love about two more additional attacks? I replaced Shadow Jaunt with Shadow Stride here because a move-action teleport is going to be a heckuva lot more useful than a standard-action or even a swift-action. If your build is focusing mostly on standard action strikes, then it's good to have something interesting to do with that move action.

Swordsage 11: Fool's Strike.

AKA "Stop hitting yourself!"

Swordsage 12: Strike of Righteous Vitality, Tornado Throw (replacing Counter Charge).

Ok, we're at IL 17 and can start taking 9th level maneuvers here... what I really want is Time Stands Still, but I can't quite grab that yet because I want to get Stance of Alacrity into the build and also use it as the last prereq for TSS. So instead I take SoRV because being able to drop a full heal on a mostly meatbag build is really darned useful. Also, I've got a "replace a maneuver" opportunity here, and since Setting Sun is my least favorite discipline, I figure I should get it out of the way and get rid of one of the less useful Setting Sun maneuvers. Counter Charge probably isn't getting much use at this level, although you could also replace Comet Throw with Tornado Throw here because if you're going to throw somebody, why dish out anything less than the Full Tornado?


Master of Nine 2: Stance of Alacrity (stance), Time Stands Still.

Woot!

I turn my back to the wind
To catch my breath
Before I start off again
Driven on, without a moment to spend...

Stance of Alacrity gives you a little leg-up in the action economy, as you now get a "free counter" (immediate action) every round without depriving yourself of your swift actions. So now you can use all those counters/boosts you've been stockpiling, take your standard action strike, and then Shadow Stride to reposition (or for giggles).

Master of Nine 3: Inferno Blast, Strike of Perfect Clarity, Mountain Tombstone Strike (Martial Study).

We can pick up three maneuvers here with Martial Study. War Master's Charge is probably the "best" of the remaining 9ths, but I want to pick up a White Raven stance first, so I like Strike of Perfect Clarity next, and Mountain Tombstone Strike because Constitution damage with no save can be pretty nasty. I decided Inferno Blast was the best of the remaining maneuvers, because it's an area effect (unusual for ToB). Great for wiping out mooks.

Master of Nine 4: Press the Advantage (stance), War Master's Charge.

I picked up Press the Advantage here, as I thought it was the most useful stance I hadn't picked up yet, but that probably just shows my bias towards TWF. The Swarm Tactics stance could also be taken here... I wasn't entirely enamored with it, but if you've got reliable allies to stand next to you... hey, free +5 untyped attack bonus!

War Master's Charge may not look all that impressive when it's mostly you doing the charging, but the damage ramps up quickly as you add more allies. Oh, and all that damage in +50 and +25 chunks? Those are static modifiers, which gets multiplied when you start adding in things like Spirited Charge, Headlong Rush, Valorous weapons, etc. And if you get at least one other ally to hit the same target, your opponent is auto-stunned for one round (no save).

Master of Nine 5: Five-Shadow Creeping Ice Enervation Strike, Feral Death Blow.

These two I decided were "least useful" so I took them last. Five-Shadow Creeping Ice Enervation Strike has possibly the coolest name in the book, but from a mechanical standpoint it's a book-keeping nightmare, and your opponent can ignore a good chunk of it with a successful Fort save, which is just begging for some disappointment in what should be an encounter-ender.

Feral Death Blow has the same problem with a Fort save, but has the additional headache that undead, constructs, elementals, plants, and oozes are immune to the death effect. However, at least you still get to roll the 20d6 (time to bust out that Shadowrun cube!).

Now, as far as what's missing... and I suppose there's the additional four levels to consider...

Well, the obvious: Mountain Hammer, if you don't already have it via a Stone Dragon Belt. Actually, it'd be nice to have Elder or Ancient Mountain Hammer, but unlike Mountain Tombstone strike, those actually have prereqs.

Quicksilver Motion should probably be in there, maybe replacing one of the Insightful Strikes.

Order Forged From Chaos should be in there somewhere, as it's a move action that would work *really* well after popping off one of the standard-action 9ths.

Clarion Call would be another good boost to have, although if you're using Legacy Champion to advance Swordsage, you don't have access to White Raven. You can maybe use Legacy Champion to advance Mo9, but its "iffy" from a rules standpoint. If you stick with Swordsage, then you'll want to add One With Shadow and Diamond Defense to your portfolio of counters.



2. To UMD or to not UMD? It is a class skill for Legacy Champion, after all. And he has allies who can supply him with powerful scrolls. Charisma isn't a dump stat for this guy either... But I'm not sure if he can spare the skillpoints. Oh, and he'll take four more levels of LC after finishing Ao9, if you want to know.


I'm a big fan of UMD, but if you don't have the skill points for it... well, do you have enough to at least activate a wand on a "1"? But on the other hand, at 24th level... what exactly is a wand going to do when you've got epic spellcasters cracking the planet in half and licking out the hot gooey mantle?



3. I want this guy to actually get milage from his Legacy Weapon. The thing is, the setting is homebrew and this guy isn't focused on one school, so no using the original Nine Swords from ToB. I'm looking for either a weapon that can be easily refluffed to fit or a way to make one of my own. There are rules for making a Legacy Weapon, you see.


I'm kinda partial to the Sun Blade. There's a Legacy version of it in Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. The cool thing about it is it counts as either a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon, so if you add the Morphing property, you can turn it into nearly any weapon you can imagine.



4. Speaking of weapons, there's a weapon enhancement in ToB that gives a +1 bonus to hit if you know a maneuver from the matching school, which increases to a +3 when actually using it, that stacks with the others. So would a masterwork Tiger Claw Shadow Hand Setting Sun Desert Wind Diamond Mind Iron Heart Devoted Spirit White Raven Stone Dragon weapon be good for this character? Note: this is not his Legacy Weapon.


Forge of War page 121: Dragonshard Pommel Stone. You can add the Martial Discipline property to the pommel stone nine times, and then add it to any masterwork melee weapon.

It's also a good way to add the Morphing property to an existing Legacy Weapon. However, since you're already taking levels in Legacy Champion, you can add weapon properties to an existing legacy weapon via the Replace Weapon Legacy class feature and picking "Weapon Enhancement" off of the various Menu options.



5. Any other advice, people?

Uh... don't eat yellow snow?

[Mr Adventurer]

4. Speaking of weapons, there's a weapon enhancement in ToB that gives a +1 bonus to hit if you know a maneuver from the matching school, which increases to a +3 when actually using it, that stacks with the others. So would a masterwork Tiger Claw Shadow Hand Setting Sun Desert Wind Diamond Mind Iron Heart Devoted Spirit White Raven Stone Dragon weapon be good for this character? Note: this is not his Legacy Weapon.


Magical weapons need to have a +1 enhancement bonus before you can add those magical properties to them. This would be a +10-equivalent weapon; presuming he somehow uses a strike on every attack, it would be equal to using a +3 weapon. Unless the bonus increases when you're in the appropriate stance? Then, using Mo9, he could be in two stances at once for a total of +10 to hit (a stance from each of two Disciplines and a strike from a third, plus the basic +1 enhancement).

[dysprosium]

Master of Nine 2: Stance of Alacrity (stance), Time Stands Still.

Woot!

I turn my back to the wind
To catch my breath
Before I start off again
Driven on, without a moment to spend...

Stance of Alacrity gives you a little leg-up in the action economy, as you now get a "free counter" (immediate action) every round without depriving yourself of your swift actions. So now you can use all those counters/boosts you've been stockpiling, take your standard action strike, and then Shadow Stride to reposition (or for giggles).

Just came in to say that I've always been a fan of your Archon of Nine build. The fact that you made the Rush reference in this explanation made me smile. :smallsmile:

But while I'm here . . .


3. I want this guy to actually get milage from his Legacy Weapon. The thing is, the setting is homebrew and this guy isn't focused on one school, so no using the original Nine Swords from ToB. I'm looking for either a weapon that can be easily refluffed to fit or a way to make one of my own. There are rules for making a Legacy Weapon, you see.

As for the legacy weapon, there was a (short) thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?372732-quot-Master-Sword-quot-of-the-Nine-Swords-(Weapon-of-Legacy-help)&highlight=sword) that discussed this.


5. Any other advice, people?
Buy low and sell high.

[danielxcutter]

Very nice! I was starting to think I'd have to playtest it or something.


I'm a big fan of UMD, but if you don't have the skill points for it... well, do you have enough to at least activate a wand on a "1"? But on the other hand, at 24th level... what exactly is a wand going to do when you've got epic spellcasters cracking the planet in half and licking out the hot gooey mantle?

True on some level, but if I had UMD, I'd carry a couple wands for emergencies, for buffs, a Sending, or just a Greater Teleport to GTFO.



I'm kinda partial to the Sun Blade. There's a Legacy version of it in Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. The cool thing about it is it counts as either a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon, so if you add the Morphing property, you can turn it into nearly any weapon you can imagine.

Ding! Just what I needed!


Forge of War page 121: Dragonshard Pommel Stone. You can add the Martial Discipline property to the pommel stone nine times, and then add it to any masterwork melee weapon.

It's also a good way to add the Morphing property to an existing Legacy Weapon. However, since you're already taking levels in Legacy Champion, you can add weapon properties to an existing legacy weapon via the Replace Weapon Legacy class feature and picking "Weapon Enhancement" off of the various Menu options.

Uh, I don't think it works that way.


Dragonshard Pommel Stone: This dragonshard can be enchanted as if it were a weapon (+1 to +5, special properties). By itself, it has little value, but if it is added to a masterwork weapon (1 minute to apply), the weapon takes on the enchantment of the Pommel stone. If the Pommel stone is attached to a weapon that is already enchanted, the magic of the Stone overrides the magic of the weapon. If the stone is attached to an Epic Weapon, Weapon of Legacy or Artifact, it will have no effect. Aweapon can only have one pommel stone attached to it at one time. The exception is a double weapon that can have 2 stones but the effect of one stone only applies to one side. The Base Price of a dragonshard Pommel Stone is 125% of the base price of a weapon that has the same abilities.

Sorry.


Uh... don't eat yellow snow?

...Noted...

[WhamBamSam]

Polymorphing into a Mercury Dragon (or Essence of the Dragon+Alter Self if you're a cheapskate) is by far the best way to power up Tornado Throw, so you might want UMD (at least enough to reliably activate wands) just for that. I suppose he could always have it cast on him by a friendly spellcaster, but I always try to fit some UMD into my Tornado Throw builds that don't have any shapeshifting natively.

That said, it does throw Tornado Throw way out of balance with the other 9th level strikes, so for story purposes, you might want to leave out UMD, or have him keep his ultimate attack among ultimate attacks in reserve so he actually gets a chance to show off his other tricks.

[danielxcutter]

Polymorphing into a Mercury Dragon (or Essence of the Dragon+Alter Self if you're a cheapskate) is by far the best way to power up Tornado Throw, so you might want UMD (at least enough to reliably activate wands) just for that. I suppose he could always have it cast on him by a friendly spellcaster, but I always try to fit some UMD into my Tornado Throw builds that don't have any shapeshifting natively.

That said, it does throw Tornado Throw way out of balance with the other 9th level strikes, so for story purposes, you might want to leave out UMD, or have him keep his ultimate attack among ultimate attacks in reserve so he actually gets a chance to show off his other tricks.

What does being a Mercury Dragon have anything with Tornado Throw? Do they have a crazy movement speed or something?

Also, I think that without UMD, one of the more powerful combos would be using Mountain Tombstone Strike first to soften them up, and then use Feral Death Blow or Five-Shadow Creeping Ice Enervation Strike, both which have Fortitude saves to negate or reduce the nasty rider effects.

[Kelb_Panthera]

What does being a Mercury Dragon have anything with Tornado Throw? Do they have a crazy movement speed or something?

High speed, high strength. You'd hit a cluster of enemies like a pissed-off cannon-ball on speed.

[danielxcutter]

High speed, high strength. You'd hit a cluster of enemies like a pissed-off cannon-ball on speed.

Exactly how big and fast of a cannonball are we talking about? I don't think Mercury Dragon's on the SRD...

[Kelb_Panthera]

Exactly how big and fast of a cannonball are we talking about? I don't think Mercury Dragon's on the SRD...

See for yourself: link (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20040103a)

[danielxcutter]

See for yourself: link (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20040103a)

Holy ****... I presume that Polymorphing this guy would turn him into a Mature Adult Mercury Dragon? 60ft base land speed and 27 strength... Yuuuuup, I can what WhamBamSam meant. Although that would be something like a last-ditch attempt, due to how potent it is.

[Darrin]

Holy ****... I presume that Polymorphing this guy would turn him into a Mature Adult Mercury Dragon? 60ft base land speed and 27 strength... Yuuuuup, I can what WhamBamSam meant. Although that would be something like a last-ditch attempt, due to how potent it is.

It's the 200' fly speed you're after. You can throw your target in 10' increments, so a Mercury dragon can execute 40 tornado throws in a row, 2d6 damage x 40 = 80d6 (although it's more like the humiliation kills them rather than the damage).

[danielxcutter]

It's the 200' fly speed you're after. You can throw your target in 10' increments, so a Mercury dragon can execute 40 tornado throws in a row, 2d6 damage x 40 = 80d6 (although it's more like the humiliation kills them rather than the damage).

I was going to say that was insane - before remembering that anything related with Polymorph left the realm of sanity ever since the spell was printed.

Btw, any suggestions for magical equipment? That belt that gives a +6 bonus to all stats sounds useful, and a couple scrolls of Body Outside Body would be useful in a pinch, but I'm not sure about anything else.

[Mr Adventurer]

The Belt of Magnificence was originally published in the Miniatures Handbook, IIRC, and grants an enhancement bonus to all your ability scores. The +6 belt costs 200000gp, presumably copping a hefty discount because some of those ability score increases will be effectively worthless on many characters (and to keep it sub-Epic); nevertheless, it's always on my wishlist!

[WhamBamSam]

It's the 200' fly speed you're after. You can throw your target in 10' increments, so a Mercury dragon can execute 40 tornado throws in a row, 2d6 damage x 40 = 80d6 (although it's more like the humiliation kills them rather than the damage).Also, your trip check increases by +2 for every 5 ft you've moved during the round (damage and potential throw distance also increase based on how much you win the check by, so it's gonna be a lot more than 80d6). By the time you've moved 100 ft (1/4 to 1/5 of a Mercury Dragon's Tornado Throw movement depending what age category you're using, and possibly not any of your Tornado Throw movement if you use Quicksilver Motion or something first) that's +40 just from the maneuver's bonus. For reference, the Tarrasque's modifier to resist being tripped as a Colossal 45 Str quadruped is +36. By the time you really get going, you can throw Big T around like a rag doll, even using the Tiny sized Wyrmling, without even needing to bother with the opposed checks (unless you actually want to check the damage total, which you needn't bother).


I was going to say that was insane - before remembering that anything related with Polymorph left the realm of sanity ever since the spell was printed.

Btw, any suggestions for magical equipment? That belt that gives a +6 bonus to all stats sounds useful, and a couple scrolls of Body Outside Body would be useful in a pinch, but I'm not sure about anything else.Body Outside Body is also hilarious. Remember, you can bring your clones with you on a War Master's Charge, and that the movement from their charge can count towards Tornado Throw's boost on trip checks should one of them go on to initiate it during the turn.