Total Party Kill Games Presents: Arcforge: Technology Expanded (Playtest)

[Thealtruistorc]

Hello everyone. Thealtruistorc here with a special announcement: my first real, official playtest.

Now, as many of are aware, Ssalarn has been working hard over the last year on Arcforge: Technology Expanded. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?452172-Dreamscarred-Press-Presents-quot-Arcforge-Technology-Expanded-quot) I, being the impetuous little thing that I am, created a large supply of content that rode along with the publication, admittedly advertising it in a few intrusive ways I shouldn't have (sorry again, Jade).

Cut to now, when Total Party Kill Games has expressed interest in both Ssalarn's work and my own. After some negotiation, I am announcing that Ssalarn and I are collaborating on this expanded version of Arcforge, loaded with tech, powers, and tons of other fun shenanigans.

I'm going to be focusing on my work in this thread, but the plan is for Ssalarn and me to eventually combine our separate works into a single mega-thread where all of it can be viewed.

We'll start with a new class The Helmsman. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XyjQxluFqrsNnjDFUZEHOD-0rd_rPVHkPVEYq8eLi34/edit) The Helmsman is a mech/vehicle user who uses veils to enhance the abilities of his chosen vessel, while also burning akasha to create powerful amplification effects. Alongside the base class are some new favored class options, an array of veils, and two archetypes: the initiating Themistoclien and the multi-vessel Fleet Commander

Next up, we have New character options options (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kXmTdEAaAMpUfYGS4omJJIY5TVrhxl04junCk3RT8OI/edit), a collection of archetypes, feats, racial variants, and a new prestige class. New technological options exist for the Daevic, Vizier, Soulknife, Aegis, Wilder, and Cerebremancer classes, on top of new variants of the Forgeborn, Noral, and Android races. Finally, we have a new variant rule: psionics as advanced technology.

New Powers (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TY_hl8lcs8rkU5bGnfHpUXTTUVsYSm0eSJFDyMAQhI8/edit?usp=sharing) with a variety of effects, many of them geared towards manipulating technology or exploring new frontiers.

Plenty of Companion, Mech, and Monster content (https://docs.google.com/document/d/11KIoi_yCbXMjCnNKFClU0bLWSLc7ck0vMvKSCb9bQ38/edit?usp=sharing), such as templates and new mech options. On top of this, there is a new system that elaborates on the creation on custom robots, which I'm sure certain players and GMs will love.

Finally, we have a new system of my own, Psibertech. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gSdwPdLtxRIeh9OpQhrZXdqgJvT2gxnqzoFGwlPjFvw/edit) The basic premise of psibertech is that it is a piece of modular internal equipment for which feats and powers can be exchanged, resulting in a whole bunch of new options for psionic and technological characters. This area also contains information on new equipment and crafting methods for gear

Enjoy. As always, input is appreciated.

[Tuvarkz]

Doing a quick overlook (This probably skips a lot of stuff that I'm less familiar with use of):

Aegis Customization-Easy Suit
Worth much more bang for the buck than the Speed customization on heavy and medium armor, not only because lowering the armor type increases all the other types of speed, run multiplier, class features that interact with armor type, but further boosts the contribution of each time Speed is taken, since heavy and medium armor impose a much larger speed reduction as the baseline speed increases above 30.
Should be at least 3 points.

Android Racial Variants
When Optimus is combined with Tenacity, it makes the Android Human++, except for a few classes where Human's FCBs are particularly strong, and even then, Androids still have a possible advantage due to other racials.
Youthful should also reduce speed to 20 feet as is standard for most Small-sized races

Powers

Coded Incarnation
Nope, this is gamebreaking-tier broken, and puts any character that takes this beyond God Wizard-tier in terms of potential. The fact that the augment facilitates creating more copies faster only makes it worse. With this, you get to grant a 9th-level manifester an incommesurably higher action economy, effective power point pool, etc etc. Congratulations, you went beyond the cap and created Tier 0-any manifester with Coded Incarnation.

Also, the formatting is wrong. Saving Throw Will Partial (see text) means that a succesful save will cause a reduced effect. Either just write Saving Throw see text or Saving Throw Will negates (see text)

Mechanical Combination
Gets a point for GATTAI. Loses a hundred because medium range and getting +2 to all ability scores PER CREATURE beyond three means that by manifester level 13, you get to add 13 creatures over a 230 feet radius, which means a +22 to all ability scores. Extremely easy to exploit once more.

Synthetic Rebirth
Permanent untyped +2 to Intelligence and a ton of upgrade points, permanently, with drawbacks that can be potentially ver minimal? Available to about every single 6/9 or higher manifester? Oh hell no this is totally broken too.

Weapon property-Conduit
Facilitates a very significant power DC increase for an affordable price in the lategame, making it broken for pure manifesters. It's fine for ranged touch attacks that only deal direct damage, if a bit nova-y, though.

Armor property-Dextrous
A very valuable class feature, for just a +1 price? This caps at 19k worth of price, min 3k, while Mithral at 9k max only gives 10% ASP reduction and can't lower it below 5%. Effect is worth at least a +3, up to +4 or even +5 in some cases.

Feat-Piercing Attack
Potentially very broken with high AP weapons, particularly with the lack of any requirement.

Feat-Elemental Marskman
As written, it's an effective +3/+4 to the DC of all maneuvers when the conditions are met. This alone would make it a broken feat. The attack and damage bonus just makes it ridiculous.

Trait-Mechanical Magician
The fact that it's more restricted in use than Open Minded or Cunning doesn't make it worth less than a feat, given that it's UMD, on an unmarked trait category, and that it also swaps it to Int and a background skill to boot.

[meemaas]

So wait. Does this mean that Ssalarns work on Arcforge was dropped by DSP?

[Ssalarn]

So wait. Does this mean that Ssalarns work on Arcforge was dropped by DSP?

I needed to end my relationship with DSP a while back, and I brought Arcforge along with me. It's been floating without a solid home for a bit now, but Matt and I will be finishing developing it for release through Total Party Kill. DSP and I are still on good terms, and Jeremy actually helped develop an "Akashic Mysteries Compatible" logo that will be appearing on akashic support products released as part of my own "Akashic Arts" product line produced through my own company.

Right now my focus is on Spheres of Combat with Drop Dead Studios, so Matt will be taking the lead on playtesting and presenting material here for a while, but we'll be combining both sets of materials together over the next few weeks, and I'll continue to assist with development and creating new Arcforge material throughout.

[meemaas]

That is kinda disappointing. At least you're still moving forward with projects. Still looking forward to seeing the Vedist.

I guess that split means you aren't over Tzacotl anymore either, are you?

[Ssalarn]

That is kinda disappointing. At least you're still moving forward with projects. Still looking forward to seeing the Vedist.

I guess that split means you aren't over Tzacotl anymore either, are you?

Yeah. Unlike Arcforge which was my original project and which hadn't yet been paid for, Tzocatl belongs to DSP who had already paid another designer for the initial work. There was unfortunately a lot of remaining work that needed to be done to make that project publication ready, so while I tried to jump in and help knock out as much of that development as I was able to, there was simply too much work for me to do before I needed to move on to focusing on my own obligations.

So, Matt and I are going to be knocking Arcforge out over the next couple months here and I really couldn't be more excited about our partnership and getting to produce through Total Party Kill, I'll continue to release quarterly Akashic Mysteries supplements under my own banner and with DSP's blessing, and you'll probably continue to see me regularly showing up on Drop Dead Studios projects, but I won't be collaborating or releasing materials through DSP for the foreseeable future.

[Thealtruistorc]

Doing a quick overlook (This probably skips a lot of stuff that I'm less familiar with use of):

Aegis Customization-Easy Suit
Worth much more bang for the buck than the Speed customization on heavy and medium armor, not only because lowering the armor type increases all the other types of speed, run multiplier, class features that interact with armor type, but further boosts the contribution of each time Speed is taken, since heavy and medium armor impose a much larger speed reduction as the baseline speed increases above 30.
Should be at least 3 points.

Android Racial Variants
When Optimus is combined with Tenacity, it makes the Android Human++, except for a few classes where Human's FCBs are particularly strong, and even then, Androids still have a possible advantage due to other racials.
Youthful should also reduce speed to 20 feet as is standard for most Small-sized races

Powers

Coded Incarnation
Nope, this is gamebreaking-tier broken, and puts any character that takes this beyond God Wizard-tier in terms of potential. The fact that the augment facilitates creating more copies faster only makes it worse. With this, you get to grant a 9th-level manifester an incommesurably higher action economy, effective power point pool, etc etc. Congratulations, you went beyond the cap and created Tier 0-any manifester with Coded Incarnation.

Also, the formatting is wrong. Saving Throw Will Partial (see text) means that a succesful save will cause a reduced effect. Either just write Saving Throw see text or Saving Throw Will negates (see text)

Mechanical Combination
Gets a point for GATTAI. Loses a hundred because medium range and getting +2 to all ability scores PER CREATURE beyond three means that by manifester level 13, you get to add 13 creatures over a 230 feet radius, which means a +22 to all ability scores. Extremely easy to exploit once more.

Synthetic Rebirth
Permanent untyped +2 to Intelligence and a ton of upgrade points, permanently, with drawbacks that can be potentially ver minimal? Available to about every single 6/9 or higher manifester? Oh hell no this is totally broken too.

Weapon property-Conduit
Facilitates a very significant power DC increase for an affordable price in the lategame, making it broken for pure manifesters. It's fine for ranged touch attacks that only deal direct damage, if a bit nova-y, though.

Armor property-Dextrous
A very valuable class feature, for just a +1 price? This caps at 19k worth of price, min 3k, while Mithral at 9k max only gives 10% ASP reduction and can't lower it below 5%. Effect is worth at least a +3, up to +4 or even +5 in some cases.

Feat-Piercing Attack
Potentially very broken with high AP weapons, particularly with the lack of any requirement.

Feat-Elemental Marskman
As written, it's an effective +3/+4 to the DC of all maneuvers when the conditions are met. This alone would make it a broken feat. The attack and damage bonus just makes it ridiculous.

Trait-Mechanical Magician
The fact that it's more restricted in use than Open Minded or Cunning doesn't make it worth less than a feat, given that it's UMD, on an unmarked trait category, and that it also swaps it to Int and a background skill to boot.

Stuff like this is exactly why we are doing a playtest. I've modified several of the abilities that seem to overpowered, and have removed Synthetic Rebirth completely as a power. I'm going to need to run the numbers on Elemental Marksman a bit more to determine just how strong it is, but the attack and damage boosts have nonetheless been removed.

The optimus variant has been removed. The intent with them was to try and create a race that was literally a constructed human, but in practice the synthetic template does this far better.

[MilleniaAntares]

Yay, Arcforge has returned!

The Helmsman took a lot of the ideas I had for a mech-using class I've been thinking of... get out of my mind, Charles! :P

Psibertech seems really cool, and it's a shame my current sci-fi game is going to end soon. Though, it seems like it would be nice if one could buy it in addition to the other methods...

Nano-Metabolic interface refers to a manifester level. However, by the rules of Psibertech components, any psionic character can take it - so an aegis or soulknife or just someone with Wild Talent is going to have a manifester level of 0 and be unable to use it. Is this intended?

[Tuvarkz]

New Coded Incarnation, although noticeably weakened, is still a tad too powerful imo.
Make it a 8th level power with a 5 point augment (So that even w/Overchannel, people need at least 17th level before spawning clones of themselves), and boost the 'material cost' to at least 50k.
Main reason why it should NOT be a 7th level power: Psion 3/Wizard 7/Cerebremancer 10, with Psionic Knack and Overchannel means a 1/day 9th-spell-casting wizard potential duplication.

Conduit-Making it manifested power use exclusive doesn't fix the broken part, but rather removes the nonbroken aspect (Giving Kineticists, Enter the Vortex stance users and some others a way to increase their attack/damage) and keeps the broken one.

Mechanical Magician-Still should be a feat, imo. Pragmatic Activator (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/pragmatic-activator), the closest similar magic trait, just swaps UMD to Intelligence, no effective bonus ranks given. (As is, you just need to invest 1 rank into UMD to count as trained in it, and would only need to put additional ranks for the few decent feats that require UMD ranks, most of which have little use if you can already reliably use wands and scrolls).

[khadgar567]

is there any chance vanilla aegis can get mech support and can aegis use spheres of combat material with current set up

[Nyaa]

Psibertech document doesn't seem to mention what max implantation value for a creature actually is.
Basic mech rules don't seem to appear in new playtest documents either.

[Thealtruistorc]

Psibertech document doesn't seem to mention what max implantation value for a creature actually is.
Basic mech rules don't seem to appear in new playtest documents either.

I linked to Ssalarn's playtest where the mech rules are outlined, and so I didn't see the need to reprint them in the other documents. The implantation value rules are found in the technology guide (limit is the lower of your constitution and intelligence scores).



Psibertech seems really cool, and it's a shame my current sci-fi game is going to end soon. Though, it seems like it would be nice if one could buy it in addition to the other methods...

Nano-Metabolic interface refers to a manifester level. However, by the rules of Psibertech components, any psionic character can take it - so an aegis or soulknife or just someone with Wild Talent is going to have a manifester level of 0 and be unable to use it. Is this intended?

Thank you for bringing these up. I have clarified both of these points (the ML 0 issue was not intentional)

Some other revisions have been made to the conductive weapon property.

[Ssalarn]

is there any chance vanilla aegis can get mech support

I don't have an answer for that question at this time, though Matt might.



and can aegis use spheres of combat material with current set up

Spheres of Combat, now actually Spheres of Might, is being designed in such a way that any class will have multiple avenues to buy into it, so yes, the aegis will definitely be able to get in and use SoM materials.

[Thealtruistorc]

I don't have an answer for that question at this time, though Matt might.

For vanilla aegis, I don't plan any mech support. Given that two archetypes can acquire mechs in different ways, I don't think any more methods are necessary.

On a more positive note, I'm back with some new stuff. The helmsman has a new companion vehicle for nautical adventures, feats now exist for hijacking mechs, and the vitalist has a new arcehtype based on repairing constructs.

On top of that, I would like to present something that a lot of people have been waiting for: Biomechs. A new template has been created for mechs to turn them into organic entities, and with this comes a new druid archetype with a biomech of its own. As you may have noticed by the new subtype, I have plenty more plans for this vein of work.

[khadgar567]

Odd question can i use cybernetic or psyber implants on mechs

[Thealtruistorc]

Odd question can i use cybernetic or psyber implants on mechs

Yes, you can. I clarified on the psibertech page that implants can be applied to mechs. However, I should probably specify some sort of implantation value for them.

[Ssalarn]

Yes, you can. I clarified on the psibertech page that implants can be applied to mechs. However, I should probably specify some sort of implantation value for them.

A sliding scale cost multiplier based on size could be a potential way to go.

[Thealtruistorc]

A sliding scale cost multiplier based on size could be a potential way to go.

I don't understand why adding components to a large mech would be more costly than for a smaller one, balance-wise. I don't believe any of the abilities I created scale with size, and while the components would have to be larger it could also allow for a lower efficiency requirement when added to a mech. If anything, I envision that would just discourage people who pilot larger mechs from trying to use psibertech.

[Ssalarn]

I don't understand why adding components to a large mech would be more costly than for a smaller one, balance-wise. I don't believe any of the abilities I created scale with size, and while the components would have to be larger it could also allow for a lower efficiency requirement when added to a mech. If anything, I envision that would just discourage people who pilot larger mechs from trying to use psibertech.


Gear costs typically do have a sliding cost multiplier on them for size though, for raw materials if nothing else, so it's probably the most obvious way to go. Few different possible avenues open for making it work, just kind of spit-balling atm.

[Thealtruistorc]

Updated with a whole slew of new powers designed for travelling between and colonizing planets. Of course, quite a few have combat uses for the creative.

[khadgar567]

Okay can ai create a hologram and sustain it with out physical body and how much gp is the permenet hologram dancer costs

[Nyaa]

Computerized Focus needs to work only once per round. There are many things in psionics that rely on limited availability of focus.
Wait, the PRC doesn't even require psionic meditation to enter. I'd say standard -> move, or swift if you have psionic meditation is much more reasonable.

Kinetic Arsenal I don't even. Has it been tested at all, especially on psywar and awakened blade? Also, last sentence of first paragraph looks incomplete.

Floral Alteration first augment looks unfinished.

Environment Shield Energy Immunity was a 6-7 (not 4) level spell in 3.5 that wasn't reprinted in PF, and it didn't have network descriptor that allows certain classes to manifest it on whole party for cheap. UM words of power version has duration of round/level.

[GreyMatter]

Maybe I am a bit slow today and just missing it, does the Helmsman class not have any skill points listed?

[Thealtruistorc]

Computerized Focus needs to work only once per round. There are many things in psionics that rely on limited availability of focus.
Wait, the PRC doesn't even require psionic meditation to enter. I'd say standard -> move, or swift if you have psionic meditation is much more reasonable.

Kinetic Arsenal I don't even. Has it been tested at all, especially on psywar and awakened blade? Also, last sentence of first paragraph looks incomplete.

Floral Alteration first augment looks unfinished.

Environment Shield Energy Immunity was a 6-7 (not 4) level spell in 3.5 that wasn't reprinted in PF, and it didn't have network descriptor that allows certain classes to manifest it on whole party for cheap. UM words of power version has duration of round/level.

No, kinetic arsenal is not a power I have been able to test yet. However, I did nerf it to concentration from 1 round/level. Environment shield and Computerized Focus have both been nerfed.

And yes, I forgot to give the Helmsman skill points. That has been fixed.

[Milo v3]

As a person who really likes the flavour of daeva, can the passions of Perfection and Observer be renamed... they don't sound even vaguely related to emotion.

[MilleniaAntares]

Obsession and paranoia, perhaps?

Or maybe dedication and vigilance?

[Thealtruistorc]

Obsession and paranoia, perhaps?

Or maybe dedication and vigilance?

Thanks for the suggestions. I hope fixation and vigilance work as names.

[Mithril Leaf]

Two things:

If Magic Psionics transparency is in effect, does the Portable Psionic Generator recharge staves and wands?

You really need to specify that Library of the Psionic Scholar cannot teach you a power of higher than your max level known. Or one under that if you intend it that way.

[Lord_Gareth]

Two things:

If Magic Psionics transparency is in effect, does the Portable Psionic Generator recharge staves and wands?

Not by RAW. Ultimate Psionics, Pages 123 - 125, lays out an explicit whitelist.


Psionics–Magic Transparency: Though not explicitly called out in the spell descriptions or magic item descriptions, spells, spell-like abilities, and magic items that could potentially affect psionics do affect psionics.
When the rule about psionics–magic transparency is in effect, it has the following ramifications.

Spell resistance is effective against powers, using the same mechanics. Likewise, power resistance is effective against spells, using the same mechanics as
spell resistance. If a creature has one kind of resistance, it is assumed to have the other. (The effects have similar ends despite having been brought about by different means.)

All spells that dispel magic have equal effect against powers of the same level using the same mechanics, and vice versa.

The spell detect magic detects powers, their number, and their strength and location within 3 rounds (though a Spellcraft check is necessary to identify the discipline of the psionic aura), while detect psionics detects spells, their number, and their strength and location within 3 rounds (though a Spellcraft check is necessary to identify the school of magic).

Dead magic areas are also dead psionics areas.

Unless specifically mentioned in a power’s description, a power cannot be counterspelled when it is being manifested, nor can powers be used to counterspell a spell as it is being cast.

Unless specifically stated otherwise, feats such as metamagic feats that specifically affect spells do not affect powers, and feats such as metapsionic feats that specifically affect powers do not affect spells.

Powers or psionic effects usually work as described no matter how many other powers, psionic effects, spells, or magical effects happen to be operating in the same area or on the same recipient. Except in special cases, a power does not affect the way another power or spell operates. Whenever a power has a specific effect on other powers or spells, the power description explains the effect (and vice versa for spells that affect powers). Several other general rules apply when powers, spells, magical effects, or psionic effects operate in the same place.

Powers that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes usually do not stack with themselves. More generally, two bonuses of the same type don’t stack even if they come from different powers, or one from a power and one from a spell. You use whichever bonus gives you the better result.

Different Bonus Types: The bonuses or penalties from two different powers, or a power and a spell, stack if the effects are of different types. A bonus that isn’t named (just a “+2 bonus” rather than a “+2 insight bonus”) stacks with any bonus.

Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths: In cases when two or more similar or identical effects are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies. If one power or spell is dispelled or its duration runs out, the other power or spell remains in effect (assuming its
duration has not yet expired).

Same Effect with Differing Results: The same power or spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. The last effect in a series trumps the others. None of the previous spells or powers are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell or power in the series lasts.

One Effect Makes Another Irrelevant: Sometimes, a power can render another power irrelevant.

Multiple Mental Control Effects: Sometimes psionic or magical effects that establish mental control render one another irrelevant. Mental controls that don’t remove the recipient’s ability to act usually do not interfere with one another, though one may modify another. If a creature is under the control of two or more creatures, it tends to obey each to the best of its ability, and to the extent of the control each effect allows. If the controlled creature receives conflicting orders simultaneously, the competing controllers must make opposed Charisma checks to determine which one the creature obeys.

Powers and spells with opposite effects apply normally, with all bonuses, penalties, or changes accruing in the order that they apply. Some powers and spells negate or counter each other. This is a special effect that is noted in a power’s or spell’s description.

Instantaneous Effects: Two or more magical or psionic effects with instantaneous durations work cumulatively when they affect the same object, place, or creature.

The TPK team here is of course free to write the item how they wish but the RAW is above.

[Thealtruistorc]

Two things:

If Magic Psionics transparency is in effect, does the Portable Psionic Generator recharge staves and wands?

You really need to specify that Library of the Psionic Scholar cannot teach you a power of higher than your max level known. Or one under that if you intend it that way.

Thanks. The transparency question is one I'm sort of struggling with. Given that many casters can recharge wands and staves in their downtime, I'm not certain whether having the PPG recharge staves and wands would be too strong or acceptable. What do you folks think?

[Mithril Leaf]

Not by RAW. Ultimate Psionics, Pages 123 - 125, lays out an explicit whitelist.


The TPK team here is of course free to write the item how they wish but the RAW is above.
Now the way that it's written it seems to not be a whitelist but a blacklist:

The default rule for the interaction of psionics and magic is simple: Powers interact with spells and spells interact with powers in the same way a spell or normal spell-like ability interacts with another spell or spell-like ability. This is known as psionics–magic transparency.
Psionics–Magic Transparency: Though not explicitly called out in the spell descriptions or magic item descriptions, spells, spell-like abilities, and magic items that could potentially affect psionics do affect psionics.
There is a requirement of symmetry which may or may not technically exist.
This very much seems to imply that something which allows you to recharge charged magic items would allow you to recharge charged psionic items. If it had explicitly stated dorjes then it would not charge wands, but it states psionic items that use charges. Let's pretend for a moment that the item reads as follows:

Psionic Recharge: Any of the augmented creature’s magic equipment that uses charges (such as wands) are recharged at a rate of one charge per hour.
The only change is stating that it is magic instead of psionic and wands instead of dorjes. Would this new item fit under the umbrella of an item which is not explicitly called out as affecting both? Yes. Could this item potentially affect charged psionic items? Yes, they both possess charged items such as wands and dorjes.
Now if you want to argue that symmetry doesn't exist, I can buy that argument, but stating that the default rules you spell out don't apply seems untrue.

I personally would like it charge staves, but understand that might not be desirable.

[Forrestfire]

Now the way that it's written it seems to not be a whitelist but a blacklist:

There is a requirement of symmetry which may or may not technically exist.
This very much seems to imply that something which allows you to recharge charged magic items would allow you to recharge charged psionic items. If it had explicitly stated dorjes then it would not charge wands, but it states psionic items that use charges. Let's pretend for a moment that the item reads as follows:

The only change is stating that it is magic instead of psionic and wands instead of dorjes. Would this new item fit under the umbrella of an item which is not explicitly called out as affecting both? Yes. Could this item potentially affect charged psionic items? Yes, they both possess charged items such as wands and dorjes.
Now if you want to argue that symmetry doesn't exist, I can buy that argument, but stating that the default rules you spell out don't apply seems untrue.

I personally would like it charge staves, but understand that might not be desirable.

The big thing about the psionics–magic transparency rules is that, while there is an open-ended sentence stating some implications about transparency, that sentence does not actually lay down rules. It leaves open space for a GM to houserule, or for later rules to be written. It's been an ongoing debate since the Expanded Psionics Handbook, but overall... The only hard rules, for psionics–magic transparency, are these:


When the rule about psionics–magic transparency is in effect, it has the following ramifications.

Spell resistance is effective against powers, using the same mechanics. Likewise, power resistance is effective against spells, using the same mechanics as spell resistance. If a creature has one kind of resistance, it is assumed to have the other. (The effects have similar ends despite having been brought about by different means.)

All spells that dispel magic have equal effect against powers of the same level using the same mechanics, and vice versa.

The spell detect magic detects powers, their number, and their strength and location within 3 rounds (though a Spellcraft check is necessary to identify the discipline of the psionic aura), while detect psionics detects spells, their number, and their strength and location within 3 rounds (though a Spellcraft check is necessary to identify the school of magic).

Dead magic areas are also dead psionics areas.

Unless specifically mentioned in a power’s description, a power cannot be counterspelled when it is being manifested, nor can powers be used to counterspell a spell as it is being cast. Unless specifically stated otherwise, feats such as metamagic feats that specifically affect spells do not affect powers, and feats such as metapsionic feats that specifically affect powers do not affect spells.

Powers or psionic effects usually work as described no matter how many other powers, psionic effects, spells, or magical effects happen to be operating in the same area or on the same recipient. Except in special cases, a power does not affect the way another power or spell operates. Whenever a power has a specific effect on other powers or spells, the power description explains the effect (and vice versa for spells that affect powers). Several other general rules apply when powers, spells, magical effects, or psionic effects operate in the same place. powers that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes usually do not stack with themselves. More generally, two bonuses of the same type don’t stack even if they come from different powers, or one from a power and one from a spell. You use whichever bonus gives you the better result.

While the broad declaration at the start of the section does exist, it's not a statement about how individual rules function and interact. While it's valid to read it implying full, 100% transparency of all effects and abilities, it does not provide rules for adjudicating these effects. There is no rule that says "wands and dorjes are equivalent for the purposes of recharging them with abilities," just as there is no rule that says that, for example, a psionicist could load up on caster level boosters and run around with massively overcharged powers, and lots of bonus power points. In Pathfinder, you can only do something if a rule says you can; "there's no rule against it" doesn't fly for allowing characters to do things. There's an implication of further expansion, but the sentence does not actually include anything to allow it.

So basically... "Could it" work like this? Yes. "Does it" work like this? Not unless explicitly stated to do so (by the book or by the GM), like everything else in the game.

If TAO wants to write it into this ability that it works like this, then that'd be good (and in fact, I think that it'd be good to make a hard statement either way), but the open-ended sentence at the start of the transparency section does not include the specific rule that would allow this interaction, and needs to either be clarified in Arcforge or handled by a houseruling GM.

[Thealtruistorc]

Okay, I've made a conclusive ruling on the subject: you are capable of using the PPG to recharge wands and staves as you can dorjes and psicrowns.

Also, if anyone noticed, I added a new power to the general list while I was at it.

[Mithril Leaf]

While the broad declaration at the start of the section does exist, it's not a statement about how individual rules function and interact. While it's valid to read it implying full, 100% transparency of all effects and abilities, it does not provide rules for adjudicating these effects. There is no rule that says "wands and dorjes are equivalent for the purposes of recharging them with abilities," just as there is no rule that says that, for example, a psionicist could load up on caster level boosters and run around with massively overcharged powers, and lots of bonus power points. In Pathfinder, you can only do something if a rule says you can; "there's no rule against it" doesn't fly for allowing characters to do things. There's an implication of further expansion, but the sentence does not actually include anything to allow it.

So basically... "Could it" work like this? Yes. "Does it" work like this? Not unless explicitly stated to do so (by the book or by the GM), like everything else in the game.

I was very much expecting a response of pointing out the rules have to say you can do something. The problem with that response however is that it very explicitly does say that possible interactions do occur.

Psionics–Magic Transparency: Though not explicitly called out in the spell descriptions or magic item descriptions, spells, spell-like abilities, and magic items that could potentially affect psionics do affect psionics.
While vague, it is a rule that is written. If for example, a magical item affects generic magic and could affect psionics it by RAW has to. The exact specifics of that are not set in stone like the other explicitly written rules, but it does have to happen. One does have to make reasonable interpretations about how it actually works, but entirely by RAW it does have to work if it could.


Also thanks my Orc pal.

[khadgar567]

Is there a way to play AIin the bottle like character who intracts everthing via holograms like cortana

[Thealtruistorc]

Is there a way to play AIin the bottle like character who intracts everthing via holograms like cortana

The OS archetype for the psicrystal allows one to have a hologram companion, but I don't yet have anything for playing as one yourself aside from the holographic projection power. Perhaps this is a prestige class in the making...

Edit: added. The artificial transcendent variant template now exists, modifying the mindborn template from Seventh Path.

[Mithril Leaf]

So I was wondering how we were all feeling about more Wild Surge material? The existence of the Library does kind of already makes the Wilder a Tier 1 class, but if we're offering some more goodies I'm not going to say no. Maybe some advancements for Ssalarn's original Wild Surge Brain Augment? Or a feat to have it mess up nearby mechanical devices? Could be fun.

[Thealtruistorc]

So I was wondering how we were all feeling about more Wild Surge material? The existence of the Library does kind of already makes the Wilder a Tier 1 class, but if we're offering some more goodies I'm not going to say no. Maybe some advancements for Ssalarn's original Wild Surge Brain Augment? Or a feat to have it mess up nearby mechanical devices? Could be fun.

The Wilder already has a new archetype and three new surge types. However, the interference surge idea seems cool enough to implement. Thanks for the idea.

[Shackel]

How does the Holographic Projection augment

you may use this ability to override existing sensations and interpretations within the area of effect. You may cause certain objects, effects, or creatures to become invisible to while they are within the area of this power. You may also treat creatures inside the area as deafened and/or blinded so long as they stay inside the area

Work with the Will save? The power says that even upon recognizing that it is an illusion, you cannot see through the creations themselves, but what about creatures becoming invisible? Does the Will save also negate the blindness and deafness?

[Thealtruistorc]

How does the Holographic Projection augment


Work with the Will save? The power says that even upon recognizing that it is an illusion, you cannot see through the creations themselves, but what about creatures becoming invisible? Does the Will save also negate the blindness and deafness?

Clarified in power description. Also, I've restructured the document into several to make searches more convenient.

[Mithril Leaf]

The Wilder already has a new archetype and three new surge types. However, the interference surge idea seems cool enough to implement. Thanks for the idea.

I only see one new surge type and two new surge bonds? Fair enough though. The main thing really wasn't the archetypes so much as using the new system for the Surge Augments.

Also I could personally use clarification on how the implantation values work. Does the implantation cost only apply once per type of Augment (when purchasing the basic one) or does it increment every time you take an Advanced Augment?
For example, if one had the Library of the Psionic Scholar Implant, Augmented to possess Adaptive Mind and Enhanced Data. Would it in total take up 2 of the implantation slots or 6 of them? Upside of the first one is that it makes things like the Nanites actually viable, downside is that it means Psions can get just so many of them.

[Shackel]

Clarified in power description. Also, I've restructured the document into several to make searches more convenient.

Awesome! Though, I do wonder if the equivalent of a 4th level power should be able to give everyone Greater Invisibility. Especially since for 2 more PP, it'd go from about a 30ftx30ft area with some room to spare to 90x90ft, more than enough to cover an entire encounter(rather than "everyone useful in an encounter")

[Thealtruistorc]

Awesome! Though, I do wonder if the equivalent of a 4th level power should be able to give everyone Greater Invisibility. Especially since for 2 more PP, it'd go from about a 30ftx30ft area with some room to spare to 90x90ft, more than enough to cover an entire encounter(rather than "everyone useful in an encounter")

I should probably nerf that due to lack of pretext. The idea was that it would function similar to deeper darkness, but in practice it becomes far more versatile.


I only see one new surge type and two new surge bonds? Fair enough though. The main thing really wasn't the archetypes so much as using the new system for the Surge Augments.
Also I could personally use clarification on how the implantation values work. Does the implantation cost only apply once per type of Augment (when purchasing the basic one) or does it increment every time you take an Advanced Augment?
For example, if one had the Library of the Psionic Scholar Implant, Augmented to possess Adaptive Mind and Enhanced Data. Would it in total take up 2 of the implantation slots or 6 of them? Upside of the first one is that it makes things like the Nanites actually viable, downside is that it means Psions can get just so many of them.

I'm sort of curious as what you mean by surge augments. A subsystem I am unfamiliar with?

I clarified that advanced augmentations do not add to implantation value. The issue with the psion getting so many is problematic, but I'm not sure how to deal with that without making many of the augments worthless (maybe a cap on how many total one can have that goes beyond implantation?).

[Shackel]

I should probably nerf that due to lack of pretext. The idea was that it would function similar to deeper darkness, but in practice it becomes far more versatile.

With permanent blindness or deafness being a second level spell, having a no-save blind/deaf zone as a fourth-level equivalent isn't that bad but, yeah, deeper darkness affects everyone, but invisibility of such a grand scale pushes it a little. Might I suggest, perhaps, having it work like the invisibility sphere, where upon being struck by an invisible target, the invisibility drops or they otherwise become visible ala Glitterdust? The usual "direct interaction with a non-tactile illusion breaks it."

[Mithril Leaf]

I'm sort of curious as what you mean by surge augments. A subsystem I am unfamiliar with?

Augments that affect Wild Surge:

Psychic Energizer
Price: 36,400 gp
Slot: brain Weight: 1 lb.
Install: DC 32 Implantation: 1
A psychic energizer chip is installed into the user’s brain. Successful implantation leaves no trace of the operation. Once in place, a psychic energizer chip patches directly into the patient’s emotional centers. The user of a psychic energizer chip is protected from psychic enervation, reducing their chance to experience psychic enervation by 5%, to a minimum of 1%. The chip is delicate though; if the user suffers psychic enervation (their own or that of another), it ceases to function for 24 hours.
Requirements Craft Cybertech; Cost 18,200 gp
From the original document. The other one lets you regain focus as a swift.

EDIT: Also you should consider requiring that one has the Adaptive Mind Augment to gain learn powers from other lists using Enhanced Data.

[Tohsaka Rin]

So, glancing at the gear enhancements (because I'm a nerd), there's some wiggle room for abuse when you combine the Laserblade enhancement with a monomolecular stiletto. (I hope that I'm remembering the name right)

It probably needs an addition to mention it's incompatible. Of course, you could always make Monomolecular a weapon enhancement, too.

On that note, the Weapon Emulation Program is a little abuseable, too. How does one draw or ready such a weapon? Can it be sundered? Can fragile weapons break permanently? Is it similar in function to a Soulknife's weaponry?

I'm definitely not asking because I plan on taking dual large monomolecular laserblades, and abusing that 'break to ensure a crit' trick. No siree.

[Thealtruistorc]

So, glancing at the gear enhancements (because I'm a nerd), there's some wiggle room for abuse when you combine the Laserblade enhancement with a monomolecular stiletto. (I hope that I'm remembering the name right)

It probably needs an addition to mention it's incompatible. Of course, you could always make Monomolecular a weapon enhancement, too.

On that note, the Weapon Emulation Program is a little abuseable, too. How does one draw or ready such a weapon? Can it be sundered? Can fragile weapons break permanently? Is it similar in function to a Soulknife's weaponry?

I'm definitely not asking because I plan on taking dual large monomolecular laserblades, and abusing that 'break to ensure a crit' trick. No siree.

Clarified for ye. The function is similar to a mind blade. Also, it is monofilament, not monomolecular.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Thank ye, sirrah. I also have a joke about monofilament boot laces, but I'll save that for when I'm in a bind.

About the combined modification, it says that only one piece of the combined equipment can be magical at any given time. I have a few questions, partly just on verbiage.

1) Magical was specific wording, and not meaning any enhancement?

2) As long as both items are tech enhanced, that's ok?

3) If you had, say, a +1 Rifle combined with a regular dagger, and someone cast Bless Weapon on the dagger, what happens?

Not trying to be a pest, I just have thoughts, and sometimes my mouth bypasses my brain, and just dumps all those thoughts out...

[khadgar567]

Thank ye, sirrah. I also have a joke about monofilament boot laces, but I'll save that for when I'm in a bind.

About the combined modification, it says that only one piece of the combined equipment can be magical at any given time. I have a few questions, partly just on verbiage.

1) Magical was specific wording, and not meaning any enhancement?

2) As long as both items are tech enhanced, that's ok?

3) If you had, say, a +1 Rifle combined with a regular dagger, and someone cast Bless Weapon on the dagger, what happens?

Not trying to be a pest, I just have thoughts, and sometimes my mouth bypasses my brain, and just dumps all those thoughts out...
I dont know you made that knowledge check but on 3. question its called bayonet .
and is there an archetype for magus and sorcerer to use mech goodness.

[Tohsaka Rin]

I dont know you made that knowledge check but on 3. question its called bayonet .
and is there an archetype for magus and sorcerer to use mech goodness.

I'm well aware of what a bayonet is, but I'd rather use specifics when talking about a game mechanic. A bayonet wouldn't need to use the Combine enhancement, since bayonets are specifically designed to work with rifles.

I mean, sure, there's arguments to be made about if it would be a plug bayonet, or if the rifle had a lug for it or not, but that's quibbling at this point.

[Thealtruistorc]

Thank ye, sirrah. I also have a joke about monofilament boot laces, but I'll save that for when I'm in a bind.

About the combined modification, it says that only one piece of the combined equipment can be magical at any given time. I have a few questions, partly just on verbiage.

1) Magical was specific wording, and not meaning any enhancement?

2) As long as both items are tech enhanced, that's ok?

3) If you had, say, a +1 Rifle combined with a regular dagger, and someone cast Bless Weapon on the dagger, what happens?

Not trying to be a pest, I just have thoughts, and sometimes my mouth bypasses my brain, and just dumps all those thoughts out...

The idea was to have something similar to the duct-taped-together weapons in the Alien films. I had some doubts about using it as a result of some potential cheesy magic item possibilities, but I'm now doubting that those will cause a problem. The magical caveat has been removed.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Wonderful, the time has (almost) finally come to make a character with an Adamantine Keen Scythe combined with an Expanded Clip sniper rifle.


https://68.media.tumblr.com/d660268a605b5c4a0202826414eaada3/tumblr_inline_ntmuk71onp1s67jct_500.gif
It's also a gun.


That being said, I need to reread something before I shoot my mouth off. Edit incoming.

EDIT - So, upon checking, Astral Mech. It can take any customizations it says. So my question is, how does this interact with the Weapon Emulation Program, and the WEP not technically being a mounted weapon?

[GreyMatter]

Reading over the Themistoclien archetype and it mentions gaining access to the Empty Pyramid discipline. Has this discipline been released? The only information I can find on it was from the DSP website, but it was only partially finished.

[khadgar567]

Reading over the Themistoclien archetype and it mentions gaining access to the Empty Pyramid discipline. Has this discipline been released? The only information I can find on it was from the DSP website, but it was only partially finished.
Few people spin their versions as homebrew

[Thealtruistorc]

Added a new wild surge on top of something that I'm sure many of you have been waiting for: a psionic alchemist adaptation.

[Ssalarn]

Reading over the Themistoclien archetype and it mentions gaining access to the Empty Pyramid discipline. Has this discipline been released? The only information I can find on it was from the DSP website, but it was only partially finished.

Empty Pyramid doesn't exist at this point, and may never since it was attached to a class that will not be released for publication at any point in the foreseeable future.

[meemaas]

Empty Pyramid doesn't exist at this point, and may never since it was attached to a class that will not be released for publication at any point in the foreseeable future.

What happened to the Pharaoh? I figured you guys modeled parts of the Armiger in SoM after the last version you teased, but I'm curious what happened to this one now.

[LordOfCain]

What happened to the Pharaoh? I figured you guys modeled parts of the Armiger in SoM after the last version you teased, but I'm curious what happened to this one now.

Me too, I thought it was still a thing in progress.

[Thealtruistorc]

Empty Pyramid doesn't exist at this point, and may never since it was attached to a class that will not be released for publication at any point in the foreseeable future.

The Pharaoh was mentioned on the DSP Patreon page, so I assumed that it was still more or less in the works. Nonetheless, I'll be tweaking the Themistoclien to remove that.

[Thealtruistorc]

Good news, everyone! The wait is almost over.

I am here to announce that Arcforge: Technology Expanded will be available at Gen Con this year, and will be arriving at your friendly local game stores in the weeks after. Thank you to everyone who has been so patient with this project for so long.

[khadgar567]

Is it paitence for this or eventual real archforge from dream scared press

[Thealtruistorc]

Is it paitence for this or eventual real archforge from dream scared press

It's both. The one that was originally presented as a DSP project is part of this one now.

[khadgar567]

It's both. The one that was originally presented as a DSP project is part of this one now.
Did you mean eventual starfinder book from dreamscared press since thanks to you we dont get transforming mechs, combinng mech and proper aegis archtype for mechs basicly we only get few prcs and few items instead of real deal

[Thealtruistorc]

Okay, so given that the GenCon date has long-past, I feel that I need to explain some things to you all.

First off, this book is still getting published. There are issues regarding the production of a hardcover book which cause things to take a while, and beyond that artwork for this subject matter is still difficult to acquire. I'm thinking it will be out by the end of the year. Please bear with us.

Second off, this book is going to be the first in an entire "Arcforge" line of products, with several others coming down the line depending on how well this one does. One supplement designed during the Starfinder beta is likely to reach shelves even before this one, and the other may be released alongside this one. What's more, we have at least one more planned after this book comes out. If you guys want more, please speak with your wallets, because nothing is going to convince publishers to keep making more of something like sales.

Third off, I want to thank you all for sticking with us after all of this time. Getting this product out has been an ordeal, but we're almost there.