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View Full Version : OOTS #345 - The Discussion Thread



The Giant
2006-09-08, 01:32 AM
New comic is up.

Bookman
2006-09-08, 01:34 AM
AHAHAHAHAHA! "Can you wait 8 hours"! It's BRILLIANT! BRILLIANT I say! ;D! Now the question is..........how does sonic damage trees? I never got sonic damage......wouldn't not having ears save you? And they're trees.............right?

chesch
2006-09-08, 01:35 AM
SONIC!!!!!

oh wait, I only shouted the word?!?


QQ - doesn't D&D protection spells just give a higher resist roll as opposed to total protection?


(First page)

Felinoid
2006-09-08, 01:35 AM
LMAO. As if V's endless voicings don't count as a sonic attack by themselves. :P

oowatie
2006-09-08, 01:36 AM
Great comic, Mr. Giant. Glad to see them coming more frequently, hehe.

I never prepared any Sonic spells, either.

Crusher
2006-09-08, 01:36 AM
Brilliant as always!

Out of curiosity, just how many trees does he have up and around? That could potentially be an awful lot of energy protecting. Perhaps he prepared scrolls in advance.

NEO|Phyte
2006-09-08, 01:37 AM
QQ - doesn't D&D protection spells just give a higher resist roll as opposed to total protection?
Depends on the spell being used.

Wanderlust
2006-09-08, 01:38 AM
Sweet.

Aerysil1
2006-09-08, 01:41 AM
Hmm... requesting a pause for 8 hours, I'll have to remember that one.

*cough* - first p- ah forget it.

Hurlbut
2006-09-08, 01:42 AM
SONIC! Heh ;D

Laser_Ghost
2006-09-08, 01:43 AM
Who is Jack Vance and why are his writings so troublesome?

Awesome comic.

Miraqariftsky
2006-09-08, 01:44 AM
Hmm, and I suppose V didn't prepare any acidic spells either... acid? How about someone's acidic sarcasm? Juuuuussst incredible pacing, Giant!

SumGuy
2006-09-08, 01:44 AM
awesome comic

as for sonic damage, it would be the vibrations that would damage you.

Bookman
2006-09-08, 01:46 AM
awesome comic

as for sonic damage, it would be the vibrations that would damage you.


AHhhhhhhhhh but.....wouldn't the vibrations expand in a circular patttern further and further out there?

Wait........I'm thinking of physics

A wizard did it ;) My Bad

TheWanderingLlama
2006-09-08, 01:46 AM
Awesomeosity.

Miraqariftsky
2006-09-08, 01:47 AM
Lo, a golden grain of time
stops its fall
Unto the brazen sea of
ancient ages

First page!
(If this is improper, please forgive me. Just a newb who got lucky...)

Dawnstrider_Moogle
2006-09-08, 01:48 AM
Who is Jack Vance and why are his writings so troublesome?

I'm guessing the Giant anticipated this question, and answered it in the title.

That said: Ahahaha. Too bad he barred Conjuration, or maybe he would have been able to summon the Hedgehog :P

NEO|Phyte
2006-09-08, 01:49 AM
Who is Jack Vance and why are his writings so troublesome?
Judging by the strip's title, I'm going to assume that Jack Vance wrote the magic system used in 3.x D&D.

:edit: damn ninjas

Aerysil1
2006-09-08, 01:50 AM
Ah so that's where the word Vancian came from...

Muscadine
2006-09-08, 01:54 AM
SONIC!

I have no idea who that guy is.

SPoD
2006-09-08, 01:54 AM
Judging by the strip's title, I'm going to assume that Jack Vance wrote the magic system used in 3.x D&D.

:edit: damn ninjas

Close.

Jack Vance is a fantasy and science fiction author who wrote a series of fantasy novels (called "The Dying Earth") that had wizards who memorized their spells daily and then forgot them when they were cast. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson consciously adapted that system when they invented D&D in the late 1970's.

And yeah, that's why they call it, "Vancean".

EDIT: Wikipedia is your friend! Jack Vance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Vance) and the Dying Earth series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_Earth_series).

TheDRaconicLord
2006-09-08, 01:56 AM
Buwahahaha, poor V. I can't believe he actually was caught with his pants down.

"...a brief pause in the battle? Say, about 8 hours or so?"

Brillaint ;D ;D


But I do wonder how sonic can affect the trees...they don't have ears...unless the sonic spell makes them crack in 2 ;D


(SECOND PAGE! WOOOT WOOT)

Taelas
2006-09-08, 01:57 AM
Who is Jack Vance and why are his writings so troublesome?

Awesome comic.
The magic system in D&D (all incarnations, by the way) was first invented by Jack Vance (which is why it's called the "Vancian" magic system).

Calamity
2006-09-08, 01:58 AM
Haha, give me 8 hours, V is too funny

kabbor
2006-09-08, 02:04 AM
Now I think we can add another antiposition to the Evil Opposites list:

He's Stupid. "Advancing the cause of environmental preservation" indeed. And by leading trees into a battle, where they will all end up toasted one way or another.

yuccadude
2006-09-08, 02:05 AM
"A brief pause, about 8 hours or so" ;D great attempt there, V

Tobimaro
2006-09-08, 02:09 AM
V: "Made you duck!" ;D

A brief pause in the battle, say eight hours or so. Priceless.

And an Evil (but enviromentally-friendly) druid. Who would have thought?

Wow. The thread is only a half hour old, and I have to settle for page 2. But anyways, insert obligatory "woot", as this matches my best effort yet. :P

Kittenwolf
2006-09-08, 02:14 AM
Hehe, now we just hope that V memorised Dispel Magic this morning ;D

Pheldagriff
2006-09-08, 02:15 AM
omg 8-hour break is t3h funny bandwagon +1

great comic

(hopefully) second page

Heads_or_Tails
2006-09-08, 02:16 AM
Ah, but now the question to be answered is will Leeky agree to pause the battle for eight hours, in order to protect the trees from sonic damage on the off-chance that another person just happens to have a sonic spell memorised? More likely though he would just continue the rampage.

Something that I like seeing is the similarities showing between Leeky and Vaarsuvius. Even as Leeky isn't supposed to be Vaarsuvius-esque as much as Anti-Durkon there have been some wonderful paralels. (mad. MAD!)

Sc00by
2006-09-08, 02:16 AM
The real question is: How far away do you think Durkon is by now?

meep meep.

V rocks. I wonder if the Druid will go for the 8 hour break? ;)

XR4-IT
2006-09-08, 02:18 AM
V's great... 8 hours... Wow ;D

Zeb The Troll
2006-09-08, 02:21 AM
Who is Jack Vance and why are his writings so troublesome?

From the wikipedia entry for Jack Vance...

"The system of magic used in Vance's work, in which spells are memorised and then forgotten once cast, was borrowed by Gary Gygax for the Dungeons & Dragons role-playing game, in part because it is not similar to any real-world occult beliefs. In homage, Dungeons & Dragons creator Brian Blume named one of the deities of magic in the world of Greyhawk Vecna (an anagram of Vance)."

Zeb

LE4dGOLEM
2006-09-08, 02:22 AM
SONIC!

Xedwin
2006-09-08, 02:24 AM
Where are those 'Lumberhulks' when you realy nead one ;D (See the extra's)

rosebud
2006-09-08, 02:27 AM
Woah. Whatever happened to Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0020.html)?

NEO|Phyte
2006-09-08, 02:28 AM
Woah. Whatever happened to Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0020.html)?
Its a city street. There are innocent bystanders. They don't need to see that.

Argus
2006-09-08, 02:29 AM
Nobody else seems to have commented on the typo in the second panel:

"Even now, my arcance power swells, ...."

Destro_Yersul
2006-09-08, 02:39 AM
Heh. Eight hours. playing a wizard I can appreciate that. Bet V wishes he/she had a few levels in the archmage prestige class.

Laser_Ghost
2006-09-08, 02:44 AM
I have no idea how I missed the fact that the title was talking about Vance. Oh, and that part of the wikipedia article.

This is kinda embarrassing, actually.

Skyserpent
2006-09-08, 02:45 AM
Shouldn't Durkon be able to fight them? I mean he seemed to have no problem zapping the tree that was behind the Outlaw Leader... I mean, it wouldn't work here, but he was still willing to fight...

spectralphoenix
2006-09-08, 02:50 AM
I'm pretty sure the only spell in the Player's Handbook that deals sonic damage to noncrystalline creatures and is 7th level or less is shout, so Leeky was pretty safe. Even if V's got some non core stuff (Evard's Sonic Tentacles of Forced Intrusion?) most sonic spells don't do as much damage as their more conventional counterparts.

Marller
2006-09-08, 02:52 AM
Something that I like seeing is the similarities showing between Leeky and Vaarsuvius. Even as Leeky isn't supposed to be Vaarsuvius-esque as much as Anti-Durkon there have been some wonderful paralels. (mad. MAD!)

I thought the same. Leeky seems to be very verbose. :)

dabone
2006-09-08, 02:53 AM
well I got the best idea : V summons a AXE

Yes indeed that would be the best solution, damn i'm smart.....

I think...

Destro_Yersul
2006-09-08, 02:54 AM
I'm pretty sure the only spell in the Player's Handbook that deals sonic damage to noncrystalline creatures and is 7th level or less is shout, so Leeky was pretty safe. Even if V's got some non core stuff (Evard's Sonic Tentacles of Forced Intrusion?) most sonic spells don't do as much damage as their more conventional counterparts.

If you take one of the archmage's class features you can modify the energy type of any spell. IE you could have a sonic fireball, however weird that may be.

Heads_or_Tails
2006-09-08, 02:57 AM
Shouldn't Durkon be able to fight them? I mean he seemed to have no problem zapping the tree that was behind the Outlaw Leader... I mean, it wouldn't work here, but he was still willing to fight...

Well, at that point, Durkon was faced with trees that weren't moving, and he was tied up, so he was more compelled to protect those who he thought didn't realise the dangers of trees, as opposed to running (because he couldn't), which seems to be his first response.

Kapeji
2006-09-08, 03:01 AM
Anyone reading this strip should read Jack Vances work, without doubt the best Science Fantasy author of all time.

Sir_Norbert
2006-09-08, 03:06 AM
Giant, I love you. I don't know what's happened since about the visit to the Oracle -- nearly every strip since then has been hilarious. But this was one of the best.

5tephen
2006-09-08, 03:10 AM
Oh, Right.

The 'Memorise and forget' spell system. Not, like a sub-branch, or evocation, but the FUNDAMENTALS.

Yeah, I didn't know that either, but I figured that you guys here in the Forums would explain it to me.

Thanks!

petya
2006-09-08, 03:11 AM
Judging by the strip's title, I'm going to assume that Jack Vance wrote the magic system used in 3.x D&D.



On an unrelated note, once 346 comes up (may it come up soon!), we can't see the title anymore, can we? My poor benighted friends who don't read OotS every day will be befuddled...

This was perfect V dialogue of course - who else would comment on whether this energy form was protected against while unable to cast such spells?

--LWM

NEO|Phyte
2006-09-08, 03:15 AM
On an unrelated note, once 346 comes up (may it come up soon!), we can't see the title anymore, can we? My poor benighted friends who don't read OotS every day will be befuddled...
What you get when you click the big Comics over on the left menu thing (http://www.giantitp.com/Comics.html)

rwald
2006-09-08, 03:24 AM
I'm pretty sure the only spell in the Player's Handbook that deals sonic damage to noncrystalline creatures and is 7th level or less is shout, so Leeky was pretty safe. Even if V's got some non core stuff (Evard's Sonic Tentacles of Forced Intrusion?) most sonic spells don't do as much damage as their more conventional counterparts.
From the Spell Compendium:

Sound Lance
Level: Cleric 4, sorcerer/wizard 3
Range: Medium (100 ft + 10 ft/level)
Target: One creature or object
Saving throw: Fortitude half
Spell resistance: Yes

1d8 points of sonic damage per caster level, maximum 10d8. Cannot penetrate the area of a silence spell.

Of course, that's non-Core, but there are some nice sonic damage spells in the SpC.

Charity322
2006-09-08, 03:30 AM
Nobody else seems to have commented on the typo in the second panel:

"Even now, my arcance power swells, ...."

And later in the same speech allies is spelt with 3 Ls.

I never knew Vecna was an anagram of Vance hehe.

kasib
2006-09-08, 03:39 AM
Hahah, brilliant. Definitely the best of the recent storyline (336 or so onwards).

Freshmeat
2006-09-08, 03:55 AM
I don't say this often, but this comic was great. I sort of expected Leeky to be a bit boring (he's Durkon evil counterpart, after all), but that shaped up quite nicely in the end.

Best part of the joke by far was the mimed sonic spell. Oh and the trees' expression in the background.
:)

ShiningTed
2006-09-08, 04:01 AM
Nobody else seems to have commented on the typo in the second panel:

"Even now, my arcance power swells, ...."
I spot one in panel 4 - V's second sentence doesn't seem to make sense, seems to need another word, eg "but who would think to guard them", or "would you think to guard them" (and lightening should have a question mark after it, though being a seperate panel I can see where that may not work).

O yeah, and it was a funny comic ;D

ScreamerSimon
2006-09-08, 04:08 AM
Bluff, Bluff, Bluff, Bluff the not so stupid druid....

And thanks for the comic!

Soepvork
2006-09-08, 04:22 AM
Am I the first one to notice that V would actually need a rest of 9 hours (if I'm not mistaken): 8 hours of complete rest (even for an elf) and 1 hour of spell preperation?

Antina
2006-09-08, 04:27 AM
Am I the first one to notice that V would actually need a rest of 9 hours (if I'm not mistaken): 8 hours of complete rest (even for an elf) and 1 hour of spell preperation?
Correct! But who would be sooo nit-picking ;)

Screech
2006-09-08, 05:01 AM
Am I the first one to notice that V would actually need a rest of 9 hours (if I'm not mistaken): 8 hours of complete rest (even for an elf) and 1 hour of spell preperation?



Thats so sad why pick just laugh it was dam funny thanks Giant ;D

battleburn
2006-09-08, 05:19 AM
Anyone reading this strip should read Jack Vances work, without doubt the best Science Fantasy author of all time.
Him, the best??
I don't know about that... He is good, that's for sure, but what about Isaac Azimov, or Roger Zelazny? Just to name a few. Or what about Terry Pratchet and Robert Jordan.

I wouldn't say Jack Vance is the best author, not before you know all about the three laws of robotics and all the loopholes that encompany them.





AHhhhhhhhhh but.....wouldn't the vibrations expand in a circular patttern further and further out there?

Wait........I'm thinking of physics

A wizard did it ;) My Bad
No they wouldn't they have invented guns for in airplanes that do not endanger the plane itself. Sonic guns. Sound can be steered. Only after the soundcone hits the druid it will start the circular expansion.

For all those people who ask how sound can hurt trees. All V has got to do probably is take out Leeky and then the trees won't do anything anymore.

-battleburn

rakkoon
2006-09-08, 05:23 AM
Sonic vibrations are able to shatter buildings, no?
Though that was one of the things that happened after an atomic bomb, sheer pressure that "cleanses" the land.

Albion
2006-09-08, 05:30 AM
"SONIC!!" ;D V is always trying so hard... *giggles like a girl, then coughs like an ogre.* It's this flu I got.
The whole concept of dramatically shouting the spell... When I know what I know now and look at the "SONIC!!" moment... aargh! ;D

battleburn
2006-09-08, 05:43 AM
I love the way the trees eyes change when she shouts Sonic

Zuzuzu
2006-09-08, 05:48 AM
Nice strip. But, actually, there's no actual need to wait for long hours, because single metamagic rod of energy substitution [sonic] can solve the problem. Or, as more character-dependant option, smart wizard could take aforementioned feat "Energy Substitution [sonic]" from Complete Arcane, thus turning the fireballs and ligtnings into their sonic versions, and blast 99% of monsters with no respect for immunities. It's SONIC after all, there are very few creatures with resistances to it.

BTW, in lower-left frame druid's mouth got no black fill. Kinda, drawing bug, hehe.

Shara_Littlebottom
2006-09-08, 06:19 AM
This was my favourite comic in a while, very cute and funny! :-D

Mr_Shrubber
2006-09-08, 06:19 AM
Something that I like seeing is the similarities showing between Leeky and Vaarsuvius. Even as Leeky isn't supposed to be Vaarsuvius-esque as much as Anti-Durkon there have been some wonderful paralels. (mad. MAD!)
Yep, I had noticed that as well. Leeky does seem to be a bit on the verbose side ;D

Had to laugh out loud at this, as the shouting-instead-of-spell-casting mirrors a situation from my old AD&D group very closely. Great reaction shot from the tree, too.

Adeptus
2006-09-08, 06:22 AM
Not outrageously funny, but the conflict is escalating nicely. Well done :)

Sebastian
2006-09-08, 07:14 AM
The best thing to do now would be cast a dispel magic and then a fireball or two, that should remove some of the tree's protections.

That or summon some celestial woodchucks, tree natural enemies. :)

TroyXavier
2006-09-08, 07:18 AM
Another very fun one as we learn more about the druid and V is at hir priceless best.

Sebastian
2006-09-08, 07:26 AM
Or, as more character-dependant option, smart wizard could take aforementioned feat "Energy Substitution [sonic]" from Complete Arcane, thus turning the fireballs and ligtnings into their sonic versions, and blast 99% of monsters with no respect for immunities. It's SONIC after all, there are very few creatures with resistances to it.

the feat only work if you choose to use it during memorization (so V would still need 8 hours) and energy substitution from complete arcane don't include sonic in the energies you can choose from.

faerwain
2006-09-08, 07:30 AM
Darn, the Giant forces me to get educated again and do research for the punchlines..or at least read the research of helpful posters ;)

But great moment, V going for such an extreme bluff, really made me laugh.

Anyone wondering if the V-man took his time to change the sign at the park door into "Explosive Runes Memorial" ?

Dark
2006-09-08, 07:35 AM
The magic system in D&D (all incarnations, by the way) was first invented by Jack Vance (which is why it's called the "Vancian" magic system).
Hmm, I wouldn't say that. The magic system in D&D was inspired by one of Vance's, yes, but Jack Vance never mentioned spell levels :)

Electric_Monkey
2006-09-08, 07:44 AM
I'm pretty sure the only spell in the Player's Handbook that deals sonic damage to noncrystalline creatures and is 7th level or less is shout, so Leeky was pretty safe. Even if V's got some non core stuff (Evard's Sonic Tentacles of Forced Intrusion?) most sonic spells don't do as much damage as their more conventional counterparts.

There's also Sound Burst (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/soundBurst.htm) that Elan or Durkon could cast, but it's pretty tame.

Zuzuzu
2006-09-08, 08:06 AM
the feat only work if you choose to use it during memorization (so V would still need 8 hours) and energy substitution from complete arcane don't include sonic in the energies you can choose from.

If feat was taken there would be no apparent reason NOT to sonic-substitute the majority of damage-dealing spells :). But yes, I re-red feat entry and it really looks like sonic is not an option (thanks for pointing this out, BTW). This totally sux, unless it's possible to convince DM to allow sonic substitution, at least on the rod (for an increased price maybe). It IS a type of energy after all, and sonic spells can be converted by this feat into, say, fire ones. All in all it wouldn't be that horribly broken :).

Tormsskull
2006-09-08, 08:07 AM
*woops* Now that I have been directed to the correct area to post this...

Awesome comic. I think the series as a whole is wonderful, and this one in particular (#345) had me laughing pretty hard.

Thanks!

Blaznak
2006-09-08, 08:11 AM
You have to love magic duels. TSR -AGES- ago (1977 I think) had a game base on this called "Duel of the Wizards" where the two casters would stand at opposite ends of the area and just summon and cast at each other. Wacky stuff. This duel kind of reminds me of that. Sorry - Random thought of the day.

As to Jack Vance - His writings are NOT for everyone, but I found them EXTREMELY good and a VERY pleasant diversion from, oh, I dunno, 99% of everything else out there. Definately more Pulp Fiction in style and, to an extent, more gentle in his story telling approach. Great stuff, in my opinion! "The Dying Earth" is the place to start. Used book stores carry it all the time for cheap! Bonus!

Later...

Harliquinn
2006-09-08, 08:21 AM
OMG That has to be one of the funniest strips in a long time! Kudos Mr. Giant!

Ronald_saveloy
2006-09-08, 08:27 AM
Truely an insider joke!

Sebastian
2006-09-08, 08:28 AM
It is interesting how Windstaff and Varsavius are almost equally verbous. :)

stickygoo
2006-09-08, 08:34 AM
Woops, I think I stepped in a pile of verbosity. ewwww...

Aside from not knowing who Jack Vance is, I found it wonderfully entertaining again.

Alangriffith
2006-09-08, 08:46 AM
Spoiler

DISINTEGRATE

No energy type - hurts.

Varsuvius often casts/has it (black dragon springs to mind).

But only one target, you say? Not enough of them prepared to kill the trees, you say?

DISINTEGRATE THE DRUID!

If liveoak or animate trees trees, they will be rather less effective without his commands.

Even if awakened (or given previous instructions), they are easier to ourun, outfly etc. without a druid to buff them, flame strike you, and so forth.

I love disintegrate. Not energy, not a death effect anymore, works on walls of force, annoying doors, walls. To be immune to it something has to be immune to magic or picked it out for spell immunity, because no creature type or elemental immunity will help.

Or disintegrate one tree and see if the druid will agree to a ceasefire to protect his beloved trees.

Although this incidentally hits an issue, because awakened trees are statted as animated objects (no con) yet wshould have a con score as plant creatures, making a fort save hard to calculate. Ho hum. Works on objects, so still works somehow. :-)

Did I mention that i love disintegrate?

Spoilered just in case Rich was planning to use the best spell of all time, because I like my spleen on the inside

Sereno
2006-09-08, 08:50 AM
I'm surprised that a smart wizard like V doesn't leave at least a couple of spell slots open ... it only takes 15 minutes to prepare a spell if you've gotten enough rest (the requisite 8 hours) and have an unused slot.

EmeraldRose
2006-09-08, 09:09 AM
This was a great comic!

Priceless, since most things are weak to sonic, but mages never take sonic spells...not showy enough.

Although in Neverwinter Nights you can make wonderful use of scintillating sphere...

Eldritch Knight
2006-09-08, 09:35 AM
*APPLAUDS!!*

Great Comic!

Itdano
2006-09-08, 10:03 AM
I suppose this is what I get for having never played 3rd Edition. I've never even heard of Sonic spells.



Do you see what I did there? Do you? Do you see?

Comassion
2006-09-08, 10:14 AM
I have a question: Sicne Nale is going for the 'evil opposites' theme, who is Leeky Windstaff paired up against? We know it's not V (The half-elf is reserved for that), so is it Durkon? Good cleric vs. Evil Druid?

The trees thing seems like an excellent Durkon deterrent...

tamtam1991
2006-09-08, 10:18 AM
All I can say in reply to this comics is... LOL!!! The past few ones have been very funny, and this one continues the sequence without falling behind. "... would you consider a pause from the battle, say 8 hours or so?" HIALRIOUS! I thionk that Nale messed up and actually found someone who is matched with V's intelligent needs...

And then Sonic Enrgy. That is I think the soul energy that us D&D players just never use. Ever. Good one for playing on that.

Draz74
2006-09-08, 10:22 AM
The best thing to do now would be cast a dispel magic and then a fireball or two, that should remove some of the tree's protections.

That or summon some celestial woodchucks, tree natural enemies. :)

Beavers. Celestial beavers would be much faster at tree-killing than celestial woodchucks. Plus "beaver" is a funny word. It would make the comic funny automatically. It's almost as funny as "weasel."

"Save a tree ...
Eat a beaver.
(Canada has plenty.
(Beavers and trees.))"

Yeah, Dispel Magic really would solve V's problems the best. Assuming she has enough more Fireballs stored up (and being V ... probably!). But it seems like Rich won't actually use that, as the Linear Guild seems to be coming out on top all over this time and the feeling of doom is supposed to be going strong.

ibitak84
2006-09-08, 10:25 AM
DISINTEGRATE THE DRUID!But then he'd be dead - And he is too cool to die. What about Hold Person?

lor_mike
2006-09-08, 10:34 AM
One of the most hillllllarious ones yet
Wait you just shouted Sonic at me you didnt even prepare any sonic spells did you?

Umm not really no

Max_Sinister
2006-09-08, 10:41 AM
Uh! First Roy's in trouble, and now V has no useful spells at hand? That's not good at all... and not even Durkon asking Thor for a lightning could help...

Lizard_SF
2006-09-08, 11:09 AM
Judging by the strip's title, I'm going to assume that Jack Vance wrote the magic system used in 3.x D&D.

:edit: damn ninjas

I think I will have a nice cry now...

ShiningTed
2006-09-08, 11:10 AM
Priceless, since most things are weak to sonic, but mages never take sonic spellsThats why Iolo's Joy deals sonic damage (and kicks a$$ at it!)

Sorry, but one in-joke deserves another ;) And whoever coined 'hir' as a pronoun for V is a genius! :D

The best magic system I saw in sci-fi / fantasy was Zelazny's in the second Amber series: obviously inspired by D&D, he explained exactly how a few mumbled words and hand hestures could shift the universe, and why it took many hours preparation to get em going (and why you forgot em later). And it was seamlessly integrated into his fantasy setting: glorious stuff.

Maxhavoc
2006-09-08, 11:11 AM
There's a typo in the 2nd frame, V says "arance" instead of "arcane". Not sure if anyone's mentioned that already.

Baloo
2006-09-08, 11:18 AM
QQ - doesn't D&D protection spells just give a higher resist roll as opposed to total protection?
No. There are two primary spells used to counter energy damage.

Resist Energy - gives resistance 10 or more to a specified type of energy. At the level this druid likely is (11+), that has increased to 30. So, -30 from every instance of energy damage. Since V is level 13 or so (V did scribe Power Word Blind, which is 7th level), the most powerful spells cast will do ~45 points of damage, which means 15 on a failed save and 0 on a successful save.

Protection from Energy - this gives a "buffer" of 12 hp per caster level (max 120 at 10th level) against the energy type in question.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2006-09-08, 11:20 AM
Hmm...

I'm looking at this from a perspective of spell slots, and I've noticed that Windstaff has made a grave tactical error. In order to get protection from energy for fire and electricity on himself and all his trees, he needs to use lots and lots of third level spell slots (or higher level slots). In addition, he's only protecting against 120 points of damage per individual. Three fireballs ought to be enough to take all of their protection down (which is likely exactly how many V has prepared), after which V could clean up with scorching ray. The only problem with this tactic is that V will be overrun by animated objects with "Colossal size, natural armor, damage reduction, hundreds o' hit points, and enough limbs to make a dozen or more attacks per round" before he's done pulling this off.

But, a single area dispel, something V probably didn't prepare yet, will fix a lot of those problems. After which, we have a druid with a handful of level 1 and 2 spell slots. V is probably smart enough to have several spell scrolls of dispel on hand to take care of this.

Baloo
2006-09-08, 11:20 AM
I never knew Vecna was an anagram of Vance hehe.
There are lots of anagram-based names in early D&D stuff. One of the most famous one has to be Drawmij (of the Instant Summons and Ocean fame), which is just Jim Ward backwards. Tenser is also anagram-based.

Freshmeat
2006-09-08, 11:21 AM
I have a question: Sicne Nale is going for the 'evil opposites' theme, who is Leeky Windstaff paired up against? We know it's not V (The half-elf is reserved for that), so is it Durkon? Good cleric vs. Evil Druid?

The trees thing seems like an excellent Durkon deterrent...

No, it's obviously Haley ::)

Baloo
2006-09-08, 11:25 AM
Hmm, I wouldn't say that. The magic system in D&D was inspired by one of Vance's, yes, but Jack Vance never mentioned spell levels :)


Maybe not as such, but I vaguely recall Cugel being able to memorize "three lesser or two greater spells" or something like that. But it's been aeons since I read The Dying Earth, so I could be misremembering.

Heloisa
2006-09-08, 11:28 AM
V bluffing?! :o

Anyway, Haley should shoot some arrows at the trees, right? She's pretty good!

And thanks for the strip tittle Giant, helped a lot! LOL :D

TheDRaconicLord
2006-09-08, 11:42 AM
Ya know, I am somewhat impressed with Nale. I never ever thought Nale could cook up such impressive allies and battle plan. Honestly now that I think about it, he prepared an amazing trap for Roy and now this situation.


Ooooohhh boy, I can't wait to see more of this! I wonder where Thog is?!

Lizard_SF
2006-09-08, 11:44 AM
Maybe not as such, but I vaguely recall Cugel being able to memorize "three lesser or two greater spells" or something like that. But it's been aeons since I read The Dying Earth, so I could be misremembering.

Yes. It was something like "While an accomplished mage could force three or even four potent spells into his mind, Cugel struggled to master even one of the lesser enchantments", or words to that effect.

This is why thieves in D&D can read scrolls. Because Cugel could (sort of...).

Alas, those reversed perambulations...

Martok
2006-09-08, 12:12 PM
LOL! Brilliant Rich; simply brilliant. :D

Varian7
2006-09-08, 12:15 PM
LOL V and Leeky seem have equal verbosity! This was a great strip!

sakusha
2006-09-08, 12:20 PM
You know, I could've SWORN that elves only needed 2 hours of 'meditation' and not 8 hours of sleep to memorize stuff ... did that get knocked out in 3.5?

sakusha
2006-09-08, 12:22 PM
I have a question: Sicne Nale is going for the 'evil opposites' theme, who is Leeky Windstaff paired up against? We know it's not V (The half-elf is reserved for that), so is it Durkon? Good cleric vs. Evil Druid?

The trees thing seems like an excellent Durkon deterrent...

Please see the previous comic's thread. http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1157439372

silvadel
2006-09-08, 12:32 PM
Nice comic. Keep up the good work and speed ;D

Unfortunately most of what I thought about it was a potential spoiler....

While we know V didnt memorize it, sonic spells like sound burst would be right up elan's alley -- Blast Blast Blast the Nasty Trees

Mr._Blinky
2006-09-08, 12:32 PM
Am I the first one to notice that V would actually need a rest of 9 hours (if I'm not mistaken): 8 hours of complete rest (even for an elf) and 1 hour of spell preperation?

Actually incorrect. V is an elf, and they only need half as much sleep, IIRC (can't remember which book this is in, I'm pretty sure it's the PHB). If thats the case, then V only needs 5 hours (4 sleep, one to memorize).


You know, I could've SWORN that elves only needed 2 hours of 'meditation' and not 8 hours of sleep to memorize stuff ... did that get knocked out in 3.5?
No, I'm pretty sure you're right, though it's half as much sleep as humans, not a quarter (4 rather than 2). And yes, they meditate, not sleep.

The_Kobold_Hero
2006-09-08, 12:42 PM
Ah the pain of not being a sorcerer. . . :p

Madmal
2006-09-08, 12:59 PM
I just read the comic, and i must concur, sonic spells are always underestimated....

and that's why i like them so much... ;D

Gnorosch
2006-09-08, 01:17 PM
Beavers. Celestial beavers would be much faster at tree-killing than celestial woodchucks.
Well, if you ask me, then V should summon a lumberjack. A fiendish lumberjack, that is. It even has an inbuilt sonic attack. ;)


Or simply give Belkar an axe - those are tree, no sentient beings. He can splinter them as much as he likes to.

ObadiahtheSlim
2006-09-08, 01:23 PM
Well I guess now would be a good time for V to use disentigrate She can cast it twice?

bosssmiley
2006-09-08, 01:26 PM
Ah sonic attacks, the most under-estimated energy form in D&D. Also the most despised though. There's no valid elemental correspondence for sonic, so all the other Energons point and laugh at the poor, dejected and homeless xong-yong. Sooooo sad. :'(

Speaking as a fan of both "Blackadder" and Jeremy Clarkson, I approve of Vaarsuvius' attempt to bellow the enemy into submission.

Oh, and the Gnomish druid *so* speaks with a Yorkshire accent (like Sean Bean) - you know it's true!

Destro_Yersul
2006-09-08, 01:39 PM
actually, it only takes 15 minutes if you aren't preparing all your spells.

orcmonk89
2006-09-08, 01:47 PM
Hahaha. One of the many reasons I think V is the greatest. 8 hours. Bless.

ibitak84
2006-09-08, 01:51 PM
You know, I could've SWORN that elves only needed 2 hours of 'meditation' and not 8 hours of sleep to memorize stuff ... did that get knocked out in 3.5?No, those 2 hours are just the equivalent of 8 hours sleep, but to prepare spells, anybody needed 8 hours of rest, even in 3.0!

Ilaun_Undil
2006-09-08, 02:00 PM
I find that sonic spells are extremely powerful. With the energy transfer in CA you can turn fireballs into Sonic balls. imagine 10d6 of sonic damage, in which pretty much no creature is immune. BTW I have no clue how you can set any of them off with out going deaf yourself. For example a jet engine, one of the loudest noises on earth, will break you ear drums, but in 6 seconds will have no damage to you. you essentially need something as louds as an Atomic bomb blast to hope to do damage. It just seems a little rediculous. sorry for my rant, but it is fun sometimes :)

Snake-Aes
2006-09-08, 02:41 PM
Magic is Magic, I suppose.And you can always fool around with the wave frequency, imagine a 180 Mhz wave, and how much energy it'd hold ;_;(I can't help but imagining those Rope Trick spells in real life o.o)


V is simply the best, since the Banjo thing I've become some sort of big fan of him/her.

clem
2006-09-08, 03:02 PM
There's also Sound Burst (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/soundBurst.htm) that Elan or Durkon could cast, but it's pretty tame.
The spell also stuns mutliple opponents. Don't underestimate the value of a stunned opponent. Total inaction for a round, no dex bonus, all carried items (including weapons) dropped. One of the few means of getting in sneak attacks against an opponent with Improved Uncanny Dodge.

Of course, this is little practical application against animated trees, but don't completely write off that spell.

sakusha
2006-09-08, 03:06 PM
Magic is Magic, I suppose.And you can always fool around with the wave frequency, imagine a 180 Mhz wave, and how much energy it'd hold ;_;(I can't help but imagining those Rope Trick spells in real life o.o)


V is simply the best, since the Banjo thing I've become some sort of big fan of him/her.

Just a thought, but if you type in red text you look like a moderator.

sakusha
2006-09-08, 03:07 PM
Actually incorrect. V is an elf, and they only need half as much sleep, IIRC (can't remember which book this is in, I'm pretty sure it's the PHB). If thats the case, then V only needs 5 hours (4 sleep, one to memorize).

No, I'm pretty sure you're right, though it's half as much sleep as humans, not a quarter (4 rather than 2). And yes, they meditate, not sleep.

Is it perhaps that elves only require 2 hours of rest, but 4 for wizards? ??? I think I'll go check the PHB on this one. My 2.0/3.0/3.5 references are foggy about that particular area.

Kish
2006-09-08, 03:12 PM
Or simply give Belkar an axe - those are tree, no sentient beings.
That doesn't matter. They're still alive.

The relevant information about wizards' rest needs is found on page 178 of the PHB. Vaarsuvius needs eight hours of rest to prepare spells, like a wizard of any other race.

sakusha
2006-09-08, 04:09 PM
That doesn't matter. They're still alive.

The relevant information about wizards' rest needs is found on page 178 of the PHB. Vaarsuvius needs eight hours of rest to prepare spells, like a wizard of any other race.

Yay for Kish! Thanks. :)

EmeraldRose
2006-09-08, 04:18 PM
It will be interesting to see what V comes up with to combat the evil trees. Perhaps it could fall to Belkar...since trees aren't technically sentient creatures, wouldn't his mark be rendered ineffective?

Axl_Rose
2006-09-08, 04:42 PM
Perhaps V prepared Explosive Runes today?

Hyrael
2006-09-08, 04:54 PM
I'm surprised that a smart wizard like V doesn't leave at least a couple of spell slots open ... it only takes 15 minutes to prepare a spell if you've gotten enough rest (the requisite 8 hours) and have an unused slot.


Yes, but V doesnt think outside the box. while a masterful wizard, v is a vain traditionalist concerned with squeezing as much power as possible from every spell level. this is why V specialized in Evocation, for the fireballs. To certain people, it just never occurs to leave a slot open, others dont like the idea of one less spell available. Compare to Pompey, who chose conjuration as his school, and banned evocation. He gave up pure blasting power for a massive increase in versitality. V is a old school powergamed wizard, P is a modern powergamed wizard. Probably. we will know more when we actualy see Ear boy cast a friggin spell.

Seerow
2006-09-08, 04:59 PM
Given the recent talk of Vancian Casting on the Wizards forums (It went from being discussed occasionally to being the source of probably about 8 major topics in the last 2 weeks) I find the timing of this strip to be incredibly convenient.

It leads to this suspicion-Does the Giant read the Wizards forums? Or is this just a joke that's been sitting in the back of his head for years that finally came out?

The world may never know.

Ubeor
2006-09-08, 05:14 PM
Is it perhaps that elves only require 2 hours of rest, but 4 for wizards? ??? I think I'll go check the PHB on this one. My 2.0/3.0/3.5 references are foggy about that particular area.

I just re-read this in the PHB today. For elves, 4 hours of meditation is equivalent to 8 hours of sleep. But ALL wizards, regardless of race, need 8 hours of rest to be able to prepare spells.

Preparing ALL of your spells takes 1 hour. Preparing a fraction of your spells takes an equal fraction of the hour, with a minimum of 15 minutes.

Shott
2006-09-08, 05:49 PM
Excellent comic.

Fillbert
2006-09-08, 05:58 PM
Has anybody mentioned Anti-Plant Sphere? Cast that and then become a hippie (tree hugger).

Fillbert
2006-09-08, 06:01 PM
Ok.. found my answer.... (before everybody starts correcting me).....

"The antiplant shell spell creates an invisible, mobile barrier that keeps all creatures within the shell protected from attacks by plant creatures or animated plants. As with many abjuration spells, forcing the barrier against creatures that the spell keeps at bay strains and collapses the field."

according to the d20SRD

Shea Landford
2006-09-08, 06:12 PM
Funny Comic.
(hey look: my post was only two words! Wait... DARN IT)

Dark
2006-09-08, 06:31 PM
Yes. It was something like "While an accomplished mage could force three or even four potent spells into his mind, Cugel struggled to master even one of the lesser enchantments", or words to that effect.
Curse you, now I have to read them again!


This is why thieves in D&D can read scrolls. Because Cugel could (sort of...).
Hmm, I always thought that came from the Grey Mouser (of Lankhmar). He had a couple of magical tricks. And we know Gygax was a fan -- just look at Greyhawk :)

Dudukain
2006-09-08, 06:47 PM
So...Awesome...

DAMN YOU JACK VANCE!!!

This is why I play Sorcerors.

Daedrous Avari
2006-09-08, 07:05 PM
8 hours or so, lol.

Kaerou
2006-09-08, 07:36 PM
Sounds like V needs to read The Logic Ninja's Wizard guide! (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=gaming;action=display;num=1157269514 )

Awesome Comic :D

Bilbo27
2006-09-08, 08:16 PM
If my bard had been there to help V, she could have cast a sonic spell.

Dudukain
2006-09-08, 08:29 PM
Dude, there barely ARE any sonic spells. Plenty of sonic Psionics though.

The Glitter Ninja
2006-09-08, 08:31 PM
Oh, how many times I have asked the GM to give me a day or two "time out" in battle to replenish my magic...

Alangriffith
2006-09-08, 09:15 PM
To certain people, it just never occurs to leave a slot open, others dont like the idea of one less spell available.

I never saw the point in leaving slots open

For spells I know which I may only occasionally need, and will have fifteen minutes non-combat time to memorise after I know I need them, I make/buy scrolls and wands (e.g. knock). Generally, if you do run into a problem where you could have fifteen minutes rest beforehand, you could just as easily come back tomorrow, especially once you have teleport.

For spells to hurt things immune to my spells (e.g. sonic) there is no value in having open slots because you don't get 15 minutes to sit out of combat and prepare them (unless the enemy are unaware of you, in which case you can come back tomorrow). If you fill in the slots, you may just have the spell you need in combat, without going 'just give me 15 minutes - owch my spleen'

For spells I generally need once but may need again once used (e.g. feather fall) I get pearls of power. Such 'just in case' spells (deep breath is another) are generally low level, so the pearls are cheap.


Compare to Pompey, who chose conjuration as his school, and banned evocation. He gave up pure blasting power for a massive increase in versitality.

Yeah, and to annoy the hell out of the GM.
Every GM I have beats his/her head against the table when told "and now I summon a.... erm.... *looks through book and list for five mins* greater something!, which you must now keep track of throughout the fight, or trust me to do so... and next round I summon again, for I have many conjuration spells!"

I avoid summoning to not annoy the Gm, and if teleportation wasn't part of conjuration either when V was made (and no healing in there because wizard), maybe V was just being a considerate player by avoiding what was basically a'summoning' spell school, and saving the GM a headache.

Alangriffith
2006-09-08, 09:27 PM
I find that sonic spells are extremely powerful. With the energy transfer in CA you can turn fireballs into Sonic balls. imagine 10d6 of sonic damage, in which pretty much no creature is immune.

All Slaad are entirely immune to sonic damage. Despite being harsh outsiders in the main monster manual with several differing forms, they never get as much play as demons, who are harsh outsiders in the main monster manual with several differing forms. Then again, demons don't generally look like giant frogs.

One thing I never want to meet is a crystalline troll (monster manual III). A mere CR7, yet regens everything except sonic? I hope you have a thundering weapon..... nope? Neither do I.

Tussy the Druid
2006-09-08, 09:28 PM
Haha that one brought a good laugh from me. "Perhaps, around 8 hours or so?" Haha, I think V is going to have to resort to ranting on and making the trees falling asleep.

Edit: I also noticed that in the first panel of the last row, Leeky Windstaff's mouth is gray, like the rest of his beard, instead of the usual black.

LordOfNarf
2006-09-08, 10:33 PM
Personally, i think V always has at least one sonic spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0010.html)

Anyway, great, I love the damage type joke, though this would be the perfect place to poke fun at how in psionics the damage type creates an appriciable difference in the power, while it provides almost no distinction, exept name.

But thats just me being overly rambly.

Great Comic ;D

houseofcommons
2006-09-08, 10:35 PM
DISINTEGRATE THE DRUID!

Yes, brilliant, because I'm sure the gnomish druid will have an abyssal Fortitude saving throw.

Kaerou
2006-09-08, 11:29 PM
Yes, brilliant, because I'm sure the gnomish druid will have an abyssal Fortitude saving throw.

Hey, it worked on the dragon, which would have had an even higher fort save! =P

Blood
2006-09-08, 11:33 PM
I don't mean to nag (actually, yes I do), but I have nothing else to talk about, so there is a grammatical error in the comic.
Vaarsuvius

... But would you think to guard them from- ?

Haggis_McCrablice
2006-09-09, 12:19 AM
Buwahahaha, poor V. I can't believe he actually was caught with his pants down.
Which begs the question: what do those wizards wear under those robes? Is the guy/gal commando under there, or does (s)he have on that furry medieval underwear all the characters seem to have on He-Man? You don't see them too much 'round here--does the Eternian Wal-Mart carry them? "Hey, furry underpants, three for a buck. Good friggin' deal." You'd think after a few hard sweaty battles they'd get wet and stink fit to be damned.

Can Belkar kill a magically-animated tree? It's alive, but not a person, technically...he could go at it knives drawn, hacking and slashing like a termite on crank....

dfpiii
2006-09-09, 02:38 AM
I think the last few weeks of the comic have been only so-so, but edition 345 actually made me laugh out loud for quite a while.

Just wanted to say I thought it was great.

Doompuppy
2006-09-09, 04:54 AM
Ooooohhh boy, I can't wait to see more of this! I wonder where Thog is?!

Malfunctioning rocket skates... he's heading for the horizon as we speak. =)

smellie_hippie
2006-09-09, 07:19 AM
SONIC! Bwahaha! Wait, you realise you just said that out loud...

Great stuff! I have yet to be unimpressed! ;D

houseofcommons
2006-09-09, 07:20 AM
Hey, it worked on the dragon, which would have had an even higher fort save! =P

Perhaps. A by the book Young Adult Black would have had a Fortitude save of +13. Anyone want to speculate as to Leeky Windstaff's?

Nostrabel
2006-09-09, 08:24 AM
[quote author=dabone link=board=comics;num=1157693523;start=30#43 date=09/08/06 at 02:53:22]well I got the best idea : V summons a AXE

¿I wonder who would wield it? (Did I just wrote 4 "W" words in a row? awesome :o)

Nostrabel
2006-09-09, 08:40 AM
I love the way the trees eyes change when she shouts Sonic

I suposse they were worried to become bald after the sonic spell :P (An animated tree can worry? perhaps)

Nostrabel
2006-09-09, 09:01 AM
Shouldn't Durkon be able to fight them? I mean he seemed to have no problem zapping the tree that was behind the Outlaw Leader... I mean, it wouldn't work here, but he was still willing to fight...

Maybe in that strip he rolled a natural 20 in a Will save against fear (and then, rolled a natural 1 to get a miracle) ;D, and in this strip he rolled a 1, so the almighty Giant decided "Durkon runs away"

Varian7
2006-09-09, 09:41 AM
Deciduous Brothers! I think Leeky Windstaff is my favorite LG member!

Ruduen
2006-09-09, 10:49 AM
Probably should've asked for a bit longer than 8 hours, V still needs time to prepare spells.

Also, I can't say that not having one is unexpected. There aren't that many wizard spells that do sonic damage, so it's not exactly a common type to invest in. However, it also means that protection against it is rare (There aren't many resistances either) . The deafening part of shout would also be handy.

Ah well. We'll see how V manages without sonic. There are still pleanty of other elements to toy around with.

olelia
2006-09-09, 10:56 AM
Just noticed this, but is it just me or do the tree's arms change each time in the last three panels?? :o

Soul_Selim
2006-09-09, 11:03 AM
I did not know that Sonic spells existed... So Am I the only one who called out 'The Hedgehog!" :P

Serious funny comic there. I now know what spell I should use from now on.

bexie
2006-09-09, 01:26 PM
"On an unrelated note, would you consider a brief pause in the battle? Say, 8 hours or so?"

PURE. V. LEGEND.
ROCK ON!!! ;D

Finwe
2006-09-09, 10:16 PM
Ah, V, to have taken a level of archmage or two.


I'm definately beginning to think that V is played by a person whose intelligence is significantly lower than 18.

Laman_Stahros
2006-09-10, 12:25 AM
Ah, V, to have taken a level of archmage or two.


I'm definately beginning to think that V is played by a person whose intelligence is significantly lower than 18.
V can't qualify for Archmage PrC before 15th level. That is just about the earliest that any wizard can take a level of Archmage.

Keldar
2006-09-10, 07:49 AM
V can't qualify for Archmage PrC before 15th level. That is just about the earliest that any wizard can take a level of Archmage.
Actually, I thought it was only 13th, because you need to be able to cast level 7 arcane spells. You do need 15 ranks in two skills, but they're both class skills for Wizards so you can have those by level 12 (remembering that you get 4 ranks at level 1).

However, I'll hasten to point out that the Mastery of Elements High Arcana requires the caster to give up a level 8 spell slot - so you can't take that one before character level 15 anyway.

TreesOfDeath
2006-09-10, 10:37 AM
SONIC

Lord_of_the_Helms
2006-09-10, 11:05 AM
Perhaps. A by the book Young Adult Black would have had a Fortitude save of +13. Anyone want to speculate as to Leeky Windstaff's?

Around the same, not likely to have much more, if at all. Assuming he's about the same level as the Order of the Stick (12th, maybe 13th), he should have a base Fortitude save of +8. Even with a good Constitution - say, 16, being a Gnome - he'd have only a +11 natural bonus to his Fortitude save, meaning he'd need some save- or Constitution boosting items or spells to be up to par with the Dragon.

What would V's DC on disintegrate be? I kinda forgot about how Spell save DCs are calculated :s

Querzis
2006-09-10, 12:35 PM
Maybe in that strip he rolled a natural 20 in a Will save against fear (and then, rolled a natural 1 to get a miracle) ;D, and in this strip he rolled a 1, so the almighty Giant decided "Durkon runs away"

Not really, when Durkon heard a tree say : «I'm gonna eat you» he ran 5 hours non-stop. The tree he hit with lightning was not moving or talking so it wasnt that bad. But seeing trees moving and eating people is way more scary then just hearing: «I'm gonna eat you». I bet we wont see Durkon in the next 20 comics.

Wanderlust
2006-09-10, 10:25 PM
I can't wait to see how he actually handles fighting a tree. Maybe Thor would help :)

Kish
2006-09-11, 05:00 AM
It will be interesting to see what V comes up with to combat the evil trees. Perhaps it could fall to Belkar...since trees aren't technically sentient creatures, wouldn't his mark be rendered ineffective?
Is this a new meme?

The Mark's description didn't say anything about sentience. He can't deal lethal damage to any living creature within the bounds of any city, town, or village.

carabaldo
2006-09-11, 06:47 AM
If he can't hurt living vegetables, he can't eat even a salad

Antina
2006-09-11, 09:29 AM
If he can't hurt living vegetables, he can't eat even a salad

But of course he can have steak&sidesalad!

He wouldn´t have killed at all.
The farmer/butcher/cook etc. would have had done it already before it´s beeing served.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2006-09-11, 10:26 AM
Is this a new meme?

The Mark's description didn't say anything about sentience. He can't deal lethal damage to any living creature within the bounds of any city, town, or village.

By the RAW, animated objects...

Oh, right. They're creatures, and they're alive. Dang. Well, judging by the speed of plot, Belkar and Elan are next, so that should be resolved. Of course, nothing prevents Belkar from grappling the druid and beating the tree-hugging snot out of him, which is actually a good strategy.

Felinoid
2006-09-11, 10:36 AM
If he can't hurt living vegetables, he can't eat even a salad
This is Belkar we're talking about, the guy who lives off the misery of others. Why would he even want a salad? He's got much higher tastes, like juicy, delicious, nonexistent appendages of an endangered species (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0312.html).

Goofy
2006-09-11, 11:08 AM
I thought V succeeded at disintigrating the dragon because the DM didn't actually want to go through with the fight?

Or was that another encounter?

sakusha
2006-09-11, 11:26 AM
I thought V succeeded at disintigrating the dragon because the DM didn't actually want to go through with the fight?

Or was that another encounter?

I don't remember that ever happening, but as far as disintegrating the dragon, I believe V's remark was that eventually the dragon would roll a 1 b/c V had nothing else do with hir* turns in combat.

*Being promoted as an official pronoun for V. =)

Edit: Perhaps you were right after all ... http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html
The only rationale I can come up with for the dragon failing it's saves is:
1) Two natural ones in a row - oh the tradgedy. OR
2) Yes, because the dragon was hypnotized, the DM perhaps simply didn't want to fight it out and let V disintegrate the dragon ... twice.

Kish
2006-09-11, 02:23 PM
I don't remember that ever happening, but as far as disintegrating the dragon, I believe V's remark was that eventually the dragon would roll a 1 b/c V had nothing else do with hir* turns in combat.
No, that was for Suggestion.

KeiranHalcyon
2006-09-11, 02:49 PM
It's possible that, while still in lizard form, V ordered the dragon to fail all its saves.

Rex Idiotarum
2006-09-11, 05:38 PM
V is an Elf, It would only require 5 hour for her to come back with refreshed spells, Elves require only 4 hours of meditation to equal 8 of humans, and wizard need only to meditate for one hour after a full nights rest,
So what does V need the other three hours for, to let Leeky catch up, too?

NEO|Phyte
2006-09-11, 05:46 PM
V is an Elf, It would only require 5 hour for her to come back with refreshed spells, Elves require only 4 hours of meditation to equal 8 of humans, and wizard need only to meditate for one hour after a full nights rest,
So what does V need the other three hours for, to let Leeky catch up, too?


Rest

To prepare her daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but she must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If her rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time she has to rest in order to clear her mind, and she must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing her spells. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, she still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells.
emphasis mine

Rex Idiotarum
2006-09-11, 06:01 PM
emphasis mine

Such mumbo jumbo as going to this page then that...

That puts the Group Trance from PHBII useless.

taraxia
2006-09-11, 06:32 PM
Nice strip. But, actually, there's no actual need to wait for long hours, because single metamagic rod of energy substitution [sonic] can solve the problem. Or, as more character-dependant option, smart wizard could take aforementioned feat "Energy Substitution [sonic]" from Complete Arcane, thus turning the fireballs and ligtnings into their sonic versions, and blast 99% of monsters with no respect for immunities. It's SONIC after all, there are very few creatures with resistances to it.

BTW, in lower-left frame druid's mouth got no black fill. Kinda, drawing bug, hehe.

This is why Smart DMs Don't Allow Metamagic From Complete Arcane.

Twinned spells, Energy Admixtured spells, bah. Madness, I tell you, madness.

taraxia
2006-09-11, 06:33 PM
If feat was taken there would be no apparent reason NOT to sonic-substitute the majority of damage-dealing spells :). But yes, I re-red feat entry and it really looks like sonic is not an option (thanks for pointing this out, BTW). This totally sux, unless it's possible to convince DM to allow sonic substitution, at least on the rod (for an increased price maybe). It IS a type of energy after all, and sonic spells can be converted by this feat into, say, fire ones. All in all it wouldn't be that horribly broken :).

Yes it would, given that the point of sonic damage is that very few things resist it, and so it's hard to find high-damage spells for it.

taraxia
2006-09-11, 06:37 PM
I have a question: Sicne Nale is going for the 'evil opposites' theme, who is Leeky Windstaff paired up against? We know it's not V (The half-elf is reserved for that), so is it Durkon? Good cleric vs. Evil Druid?

The trees thing seems like an excellent Durkon deterrent...

Durkon = Good
Leeky = Evil

Durkon = Dwarf
Leeky = Gnome

Durkon = Fears Trees
Leeky = Has Big Scary Trees

Durkon = Cast Out By His People Against His Will
Leeky = Voluntarily Left His Druid Circle to Become Evil

etc.

taraxia
2006-09-11, 06:40 PM
Hmm...

I'm looking at this from a perspective of spell slots, and I've noticed that Windstaff has made a grave tactical error. In order to get protection from energy for fire and electricity on himself and all his trees, he needs to use lots and lots of third level spell slots (or higher level slots). In addition, he's only protecting against 120 points of damage per individual. Three fireballs ought to be enough to take all of their protection down (which is likely exactly how many V has prepared), after which V could clean up with scorching ray. The only problem with this tactic is that V will be overrun by animated objects with "Colossal size, natural armor, damage reduction, hundreds o' hit points, and enough limbs to make a dozen or more attacks per round" before he's done pulling this off.

But, a single area dispel, something V probably didn't prepare yet, will fix a lot of those problems. After which, we have a druid with a handful of level 1 and 2 spell slots. V is probably smart enough to have several spell scrolls of dispel on hand to take care of this.

He could be using Resist Energy instead of or along with Protection From Energy.

taraxia
2006-09-11, 06:44 PM
I find that sonic spells are extremely powerful. With the energy transfer in CA you can turn fireballs into Sonic balls. imagine 10d6 of sonic damage, in which pretty much no creature is immune. BTW I have no clue how you can set any of them off with out going deaf yourself. For example a jet engine, one of the loudest noises on earth, will break you ear drums, but in 6 seconds will have no damage to you. you essentially need something as louds as an Atomic bomb blast to hope to do damage. It just seems a little rediculous. sorry for my rant, but it is fun sometimes :)

It's not amplitude that matters so much as finding an object's resonant frequency (if it has one); in general a very low-frequency sound will be more effective a weapon against large objects rather than simply blasting very loud vibrations of random noise.

fangthane
2006-09-11, 06:50 PM
Yes it would, given that the point of sonic damage is that very few things resist it, and so it's hard to find high-damage spells for it.

From Tome and Blood, page 40 (under "Energy Substitution")
Benefit: Choose one type of energy: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic.

Even if the Tome didn't allow it I would; given that, as a DM, I throw stuff at my party which plays deliberately to their strengths and weaknesses (i.e. some stuff they can slaughter if they figure it out fast enough, and some stuff is tough until they do)

Rex: group trance is far from useless; it means that while they need to rest, your casters are fully-equipped, ready to move if they have to and while they won't be able to reclaim any spells they use while "resting" and will suffer an interruption, at least they'll still have an option to react. It also means that your meatshields can choose a ring other than protection and sustenance.

As to the comic, mention of Vance sort of makes me wonder, given his in-game connection. We'll see whether any pieces of his body show up, at any rate. I'd love to see Belkar go psychotic with unarmed strikes on the gnome, but I suspect there're different plans afoot. I can think of about 5 or 6 different ways things could be neatly resolved and it's just as likely none are correct. :)

Rex Idiotarum
2006-09-11, 06:56 PM
Spellcaster are "fully equiped?" What does a wizard need to fully equip, his robes or staves?

There maybe groggy, but a group of adventurers need to react to stuff and wake up fast.

If anything else they can't even be on watch, because they're not allowed to pay attention.

Noneoyabizzness
2006-09-11, 06:58 PM
Given the recent talk of Vancian Casting on the Wizards forums (It went from being discussed occasionally to being the source of probably about 8 major topics in the last 2 weeks) I find the timing of this strip to be incredibly convenient.

asctually there is always some whining agaisnt the vancian system at the wotc boards. this is why enough people there like psionics, warlocks, incarnum, and whatever comes out that breaks the vancian mold

Axl_Rose
2006-09-11, 09:11 PM
Durkon = Good
Leeky = Evil

Durkon = Dwarf
Leeky = Gnome

Durkon = Fears Trees
Leeky = Has Big Scary Trees

Durkon = Cast Out By His People Against His Will
Leeky = Voluntarily Left His Druid Circle to Become Evil

etc.

You forgot to mention Thundershield and Leekystaff.

One ends in shield, and the other in staff. =)

spectralphoenix
2006-09-11, 10:54 PM
From Tome and Blood, page 40 (under "Energy Substitution")
Benefit: Choose one type of energy: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic.
Tome and Blood is a 3.0 book. The version in Complete Arcane doesn't allow sonic, precisely because it bypasses so many energy types. As mentioned, the onlycore spell that deals sonic damage to noncrystalline creatures are Shout and Great Shout. Compare Shout to Fireball. Fireball does more damage at a lower level because their are far, far more things resistant to fire than sonic.