Arcane Gate...what's the point?

[JellyPooga]

So...Arcane Gate;

The Basics
- 6th level spell
(so just within the "big bad magic" category).
- lasts 10 minutes (concentration).
- you get one gate right next to you (the caster) and another up to 500ft away.

The Cons
- limited to locations you can see.
- also limited to portals perpendicular to the ground
(at first casting, see later).
- also limited to portals "inches" from the ground
(possible room to rules-lawyer this, but lets assume that means "up to a foot, max").

The Pros
- as a Bonus Action, you can rotate the rings
(there's a question here of whether the "inches from" and "perpendicular to" the ground clauses still apply).
- one side misty and teleport-y, one side transparent and not.
- unlimited travel between them for the duration.

The Verdict
It ain't a portal gun. WHERE'S MY PORTAL GUN!

- I want to play shenanigans with falling loops and ape-bombs (credit to Decstarr for that one!).
- I want to be able to move the portals strategically, more than just spinning on the spot.
- I want to be able to up-cast it for greater range (or perhaps even more portal pairs; imagine that! Casting a 9th level Arcane Gate to surround an arena with inward facing portals...badass!).

For a 6th level spell it just seems...lacklustre. I mean, you only get it in the second half of your career and for the majority of that half-a-career, you will only ever be able to cast it once per day. Once. Only right at the tippy-top, at level 19, do you get to cast it a second time in a day.

Really speaking, what can you do with Arcane Gate that you can't do (more frequently) with lower level spells like Dimension Door and Fly?

[MrStabby]

Well some is a bit wooly and DM dependant:

1) One at the top of a hill, one at the bottom... put a slide between the two or a waterwheel or something.

2) Flooding things. You can get a lot of water through a 10ft radius pipe from 10ft depth pressure differential

3) Surprise invasion of the throne room if you can see through a window

4) Extend the range of all spells/missile weapons by 500ft

5) evacuate the sinking ship (depending what is meant by "ground")

6) Set a death trap for your melee friends to push people into - far side in lava/off a cliff or whatever

7) A temporary bridge for 500 people

8) Not sure what happens if a big creature is part way through the portal when you end concentration on it.

[Ninja_Prawn]

There's no other spell that gives you a persistent two-way portal, is there? It's sad that you can't have horizontal or floating portals, but it makes sense to prevent people from abusing gravity or creating perpetual motion machines.

What if you inserted a clause that specifies that you can't pass through more than one gate per turn?

[SharkForce]

yeah, basically the advantages you get over dimension door:

- number of people that can use it is dramatically increased
- you can get in *and* get out with it, repeatedly if necessary
- the caster does not need to go to the destination
- it lasts for 10 minutes
- it can transfer objects and other effects that are not carried, including stuff heavier than your carry weight limit like wagons full of loot
- it can be used to transport people or objects *to* you in addition to *from* you

compared to flight:

- still has more targets (though with flight you could potentially ferry a lot of people, i suspect arcane gate generally moves a lot more people and stuff)
- instant transportation
- it passes through things that are solid but which don't block sight
- arguably you can use other magic or abilities to "see" your destination, further assisting with passing through terrain



in situations where you'd use flight, i'd still recommend using flight. but it does have *some* improvements over dimension door, imo. it's a spell that if you were playing a wizard and found it, you would probably scribe it "just in case", but you probably wouldn't pick it when you level up imo.

[Grubble]

Party sneaks to the castle wall.

Arcane eye your way into the throne room, or anywhere else close to BBEG in the castle.

Open up the Arcane gate and everyone piles through. If it's a rescue mission, rotate your portal so it's invisible and you have a ready to go escape route.

[JellyPooga]

but it makes sense to prevent people from abusing gravity or creating perpetual motion machines.

True 'nuff.

Here's a thought; if you can see onto the Ethereal Plane (such as with Truesight), could you put one (or both) of the portals from Arcane Gate there? What if you were on the Ethereal Plane yourself (e.g. such as if you were under the effects of an Etherealness spell); would you be able to use Arcane Gate as a "bridge" between the planes?

I'm assuming any GM worth their salt would stomp on that idea pretty hard; both Plane Shift and Etherealness are 7th level spells, so allowing a 6th level spell to cross planar boundaries is probably out of the question, but let's think about this for a minute...

- You have to get access to the Ethereal Plane in the first place; this will take at least a True Seeing spell; also a 6th level spell and as noted, only 19th+ level casters can cast two 6th level spells a day (though you could use a higher level slot to do so). It's that or a 7th+ level spell such as Etherealness (I wouldn't trust Plane Shift to take me to the right place on the Etheral).

- You then have to cast Arcane Gate itself. As mentioned, that's two level 6+ spells for this one effect.

- Anyone that goes through the portal is then actually on the Ethereal Plane. Unlike Etherealness, which gets you there and back, this little trick strands you there until you find a way back (likely until you've rested up and can reverse the trick).

There's potential abuse with push/shove shenanigans, I suppose, but let's face it, if you're high enough level to be playing with two level 6+ spells, the foes you're facing are probably going to be smart and/or powerful enough to figure out a way back...

[Temperjoke]

Don't forget that it's useful for situations with physical obstacles as well. For example, if you have a chasm to cross with a larger party, or mounts/wagons, this is more efficient than wasting time attempting to build a bridge. Or if you have charging enemies, it only takes one action to cast it in front of them, and have the other end be redirected backwards. You can use it for convenient castle defense too. Just set one portal on the top of the wall above the gate, the other inside at the ground level, and start chucking alchemist fire vials through it when you have an opponent try and breech the gate.

[Fishyninja]

Don't forget that it's useful for situations with physical obstacles as well. For example, if you have a chasm to cross with a larger party, or mounts/wagons, this is more efficient than wasting time attempting to build a bridge. Or if you have charging enemies, it only takes one action to cast it in front of them, and have the other end be redirected backwards. You can use it for convenient castle defense too. Just set one portal on the top of the wall above the gate, the other inside at the ground level, and start chucking alchemist fire vials through it when you have an opponent try and breech the gate.

Great way to create a snipers ambush for an archer or an assassins escape route for a rogue.

[SharkForce]

the portal is opaque from the functioning side. it's an interesting escape route, an even better way to lay a trap (hopefully you know what's on the other side while the person chasing you doesn't), but a pretty lousy way to try and shoot anything through accurately.

[MrStabby]

I guess its good for necromancers looking to move their minions about fast. Invisibility to get inside a high point in the city - portal near you, portal near your horde and gets you past those annoying gate guards that ask awkward questions. Demiplane is still at least four character levels when you first get this so that potentially quite some time.

[Vogonjeltz]

Don't forget that it's useful for situations with physical obstacles as well. For example, if you have a chasm to cross with a larger party, or mounts/wagons, this is more efficient than wasting time attempting to build a bridge. Or if you have charging enemies, it only takes one action to cast it in front of them, and have the other end be redirected backwards. You can use it for convenient castle defense too. Just set one portal on the top of the wall above the gate, the other inside at the ground level, and start chucking alchemist fire vials through it when you have an opponent try and breech the gate.

Something to bear in mind is that the portals are filled with opaque mist. Nobody can see where they lead.

So..if you were to throw one up in a hallway going say, to a cliff somewhere, it would appear as if you had just created a fog cloud. Seems like a rather nasty trap.

[Mellack]

Something to bear in mind is that the portals are filled with opaque mist. Nobody can see where they lead.

So..if you were to throw one up in a hallway going say, to a cliff somewhere, it would appear as if you had just created a fog cloud. Seems like a rather nasty trap.

While they cannot see where it leads, I do not think it will be confused with a fog cloud. It is a glowing ring filled with mist. I would think that is fairly obviously a portal of some kind, and would expect people to treat it with caution.

[Asmotherion]

It's the ultimate spell in order to scratch your back, give yourself a massage, and other things you may or may not want to explore on yourself XD

Well, jokes aside, there are some practical uses, but those are mostly out of combat ulitity. After all, not all spells are created with combat in mind, and this reflects exactly that. After all, why should higher level spells be the exception?

In combat, the most practical use imo would be to use it to ensure the Assasin Rogue of the party gets full use of his features.

[SharkForce]

While they cannot see where it leads, I do not think it will be confused with a fog cloud. It is a glowing ring filled with mist. I would think that is fairly obviously a portal of some kind, and would expect people to treat it with caution.

unless, of course, you cover it up with an illusion or a darkness spell. or use an illusion to make the portal look like it has a visible destination, and that destination is not dangerous :P

[LeoProphet]

Made this account just to post this....

As an arcane trickster, I love this spell. Aside from the obvious benefits, I have a secret weapon that I use a LOT.
Note: You will need a fairly lenient DM for this.

Create two portals and face them so that they create a falling loop... Throw 1000 ball bearings into portal A so they come out of portal B directly above and drop back into portal A. Once the 1000 ball bearings reach terminal velocity, turn portal B towards your target. Regular old sling damage is a d4. At terminal speed, you may be able to convince your DM to make it a d8. Do you know anything that can survive 1000d8 damage?? I don't think so. ;)

I know this is far-fetched, but other results aren't too far off. Let me know what you think.

[Aett_Thorn]

Made this account just to post this....

As an arcane trickster, I love this spell. Aside from the obvious benefits, I have a secret weapon that I use a LOT.
Note: You will need a fairly lenient DM for this.

Create two portals and face them so that they create a falling loop... Throw 1000 ball bearings into portal A so they come out of portal B directly above and drop back into portal A. Once the 1000 ball bearings reach terminal velocity, turn portal B towards your target. Regular old sling damage is a d4. At terminal speed, you may be able to convince your DM to make it a d8. Do you know anything that can survive 1000d8 damage?? I don't think so. ;)

I know this is far-fetched, but other results aren't too far off. Let me know what you think.

1) As an Arcane Trickster, how are you even getting access to this spell?

2) The spell specifies that the portals are perpendicular to the ground, so unless you've got a hill, you'll have trouble setting up the terminal velocity bearing machine.


However, if I were the DM, I'd allow it. But I'd also keep in mind that the bearings will be contacting each other throughout the process, and some ball bearings will likely come free of the system. And, well, you did say that you were right next to the portal to drop them in...

[Degwerks]

Might want to read the spell again. The gates hover a few inches off the ground and can't be used to have things fall from the sky etc...

[SharkForce]

1) As an Arcane Trickster, how are you even getting access to this spell?

2) The spell specifies that the portals are perpendicular to the ground, so unless you've got a hill, you'll have trouble setting up the terminal velocity bearing machine.


However, if I were the DM, I'd allow it. But I'd also keep in mind that the bearings will be contacting each other throughout the process, and some ball bearings will likely come free of the system. And, well, you did say that you were right next to the portal to drop them in...

not to mention that on the hill, you're going to have some of the bearings overshoot the first portal, and they almost certainly didn't all go in *perfectly perpindicular to the portal either, so by the time you've got them up to speed most of them have probably shot everything around the entry portal to bits.

[Aaron Underhand]

Made this account just to post this....

As an arcane trickster, I love this spell. Aside from the obvious benefits, I have a secret weapon that I use a LOT.
Note: You will need a fairly lenient DM for this.

Create two portals and face them so that they create a falling loop... Throw 1000 ball bearings into portal A so they come out of portal B directly above and drop back into portal A. Once the 1000 ball bearings reach terminal velocity, turn portal B towards your target. Regular old sling damage is a d4. At terminal speed, you may be able to convince your DM to make it a d8. Do you know anything that can survive 1000d8 damage?? I don't think so. ;)

I know this is far-fetched, but other results aren't too far off. Let me know what you think.

Commonly referred to by my friends at university (40 years ago) as a Niven Teleport = Thank you Larry Niven for all your great ideas...

It's better if you evacuate the area to vacuum - about a year to hit the speed of light with your projectiles....

edit to add: see
http://news.larryniven.net/biblio/display.asp?key=39
http://orbitalvector.com/FTL/Teleport%20Drives/Teleport%20Drives.htm

[snickersnax]

I'm surprised no one has suggested its great use as one-directional total cover. If you cast it in front of you with the portal side toward your enemies, you can see through it and shoot and cast magic through it, but your enemies only see opaque and if they shoot at you all their attacks are shunted to the other portal.

Combined with a wall of stone hut constructed with two circular portals (or a similar dungeon construction), you can ranged and ranged spell attack from a position of invulnerability.