Stunned in flight...

[Escribblings]

Party comes under attack from flying beasts.

In the first round they're about 100' away and the party launches spells and missiles.

By the second round they've closed the gap to 40'.

The party has an Aarakocra Monk who flies up to one of the creatures and stuns it with a Stunning Strike.

Does the creature fall to the ground?

[Ninja_Prawn]

Unless it is able to hover (which will be specified in the stat block) or is kept up by magic, yes, a stunned flier will fall. Technically during its own turn, I think? From the PHB (emphasis mine):


Flying creatures enjoy many benefits of mobility, but they must also deal with the danger of falling. If a flying creature is knocked prone, has its speed reduced to 0, or is otherwise deprived of the ability to move, the creature falls, unless it has the ability to hover or it is being held aloft by magic, such as by the Fly spell.

Stunned
• A stunned creature is incapacitated (see the condition), can’t move, and can speak only falteringly.
• The creature automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws.
• Attack rolls against the creature have advantage.

[Escribblings]

Thank you.

;)

[Fishyninja]

Thank you.

;)

It should also take damage, however I do not know how that damage is calculated.

[Escribblings]

It should also take damage, however I do not know how that damage is calculated.


The following is taken from a game I'm playing where we were attacked by 5 Blood Hawks (my very first encounter).



Despite all the talk of histories and prior experiences, everyone notices several Blood Hawks moving together. The small flock numbers around five strong, and begins circling above everyone's heads at a height of around 60'. Suddenly, the crimson-red birds attack! They swoop down towards everyone with a shrill screech.


Milton acted almost instinctively, casting a spell in a clear and resonant voice.

initiative: 19
Casting sleep on the birds. Range is 90 feet, and it affects all targets within 20', so trying to cast it while they're at the highest possible elevation for maximum falling damage.

22 hp worth are affected. There is no save.


Milton sends two of the birds to sleep; causing them to crash into the ground very hard. A red stain is left where they impacted the ground.

22:57, Today: The GM rolled 19 using 6d6. Falling Damage.

[The Shadowdove]

It should also take damage, however I do not know how that damage is calculated.

I don't know why or how we came to this number, but I thought it was a rule somewhere. Perhaps an old edition that we kept with, or buried in the current books somewhere.

Every 10 feet is +1d6 damage.

[mephnick]

Every 10 feet is +1d6 damage.

Yeo, that's right. To a max of 20d6.

[Sir cryosin]

Yes but there is a falling speed so if they don't hit before there next turn they can just fly back up.

[lperkins2]

Yes but there is a falling speed so if they don't hit before there next turn they can just fly back up.

Ah yes, but assuming no significant air resistance, that distance, in 6 seconds, is 580 feet, or 116 standard map squares.

[dejarnjc]

I don't think stunned means unconscious or paralyzed. It just means sorta dazed. So I think a flying creature could flap its wings about and hover for a few seconds in D&D. I mean stunned creatures aren't auto crits like sleeping or paralyzed creatures.

I guess I think I would have them descend in the same square but not "fall" per se.

[Erys]

I don't think stunned means unconscious or paralyzed. It just means sorta dazed. So I think a flying creature could flap its wings about and hover for a few seconds in D&D. I mean stunned creatures aren't auto crits like sleeping or paralyzed creatures.

I guess I think I would have them descend in the same square but not "fall" per se.

By RAW they fall (see Ninja_Prawn's post above); but its not a bad house rule.

[SillyPopeNachos]

They fall, and take falling damage equal to 1d6x10 feet fallen, terminal velocity in D&D dictates the maximum damage is 20d6, unless the realm or planet has traits of intensified or lighter gravity.

[dejarnjc]

By RAW they fall (see Ninja_Prawn's post above); but its not a bad house rule.

I guess that's true. I'd probably allow them to fall to the ground then depending on height/circumstance. I do find it odd though that since a stunned creature doesn't go auto-prone that a flying creature couldn't just, I dunno lock its wings and "glide" to the ground? I'd probably give the creature a second CON save or maybe a DEX save in my game and then determine what happens.

The real interesting thing about this ruling is that it means hypnotic pattern is the absolute best spell in the game at grounding groups of flying creatures. As if that spell needed to be more powerful...

[Ninja_Prawn]

I'd probably give the creature a second CON save or maybe a DEX save in my game and then determine what happens.

A dex save makes sense to react to the sudden loss of flight-control and/or land in the least painful way... but the stunned condition also makes you auto-fail dex saves. Stunning is just very effective against fliers.

[Lombra]

If you are stunned you can't move, if you can't move you can't flap, if you can't flap you fall your flight/ground speed during you turn, eventually taking damage hitting the floor. Let the monks have cool things... they don't have many...

[dejarnjc]

If you are stunned you can't move, if you can't move you can't flap, if you can't flap you fall your flight/ground speed during you turn, eventually taking damage hitting the floor. Let the monks have cool things... they don't have many...

It's more about verisimilitude. Yeah, yeah, I know D&D isn't simulation but I at least like things to be internally consistent in a game/story. If I stun a creature standing up on its own feet, then by RAW, even if I subsequently smash him w/ a great maul, it doesn't fall over. So obviously the creature's legs still function and its body preserves balance of some sort. I just feel the same logic should apply to flying creatures, albeit at some sort of disadvantage. YMMV, this is obviously my own interpretation as the RAW has already been clarified.

[BiPolar]

It's more about verisimilitude. Yeah, yeah, I know D&D isn't simulation but I at least like things to be internally consistent in a game/story. If I stun a creature standing up on its own feet, then by RAW, even if I subsequently smash him w/ a great maul, it doesn't fall over. So obviously the creature's legs still function and its body preserves balance of some sort. I just feel the same logic should apply to flying creatures, albeit at some sort of disadvantage. YMMV, this is obviously my own interpretation as the RAW has already been clarified.

Stunned and standing on solid ground is quite different than stunned with nothing to support you if you don't have magical means to keep you afloat.

[dejarnjc]

Stunned and standing on solid ground is quite different than stunned with nothing to support you if you don't have magical means to keep you afloat.

I agree BUT even with that logic...

Falling as a stunned humanoid with no wings and landing on the ground is quite different than falling as a stunned bird creature with wings and landing on the ground.

[BiPolar]

I agree BUT even with that logic...

Falling as a stunned humanoid with no wings and landing on the ground is quite different than falling as a stunned bird creature with wings and landing on the ground.

What happened when that bird hit the glass window? :D

[Mellack]

It's more about verisimilitude. Yeah, yeah, I know D&D isn't simulation but I at least like things to be internally consistent in a game/story. If I stun a creature standing up on its own feet, then by RAW, even if I subsequently smash him w/ a great maul, it doesn't fall over. So obviously the creature's legs still function and its body preserves balance of some sort. I just feel the same logic should apply to flying creatures, albeit at some sort of disadvantage. YMMV, this is obviously my own interpretation as the RAW has already been clarified.

What do you think would happen to an armored humaniod who was swimming and they got stunned? Would they continue treading water or would you have them start sinking?

[Fishyninja]

Ah yes, but assuming no significant air resistance, that distance, in 6 seconds, is 580 feet, or 116 standard map squares.

May I ask how you calculated that? I am still a tad unsure of how 'time' progresses in D&D.


I do find it odd though that since a stunned creature doesn't go auto-prone that a flying creature couldn't just, I dunno lock its wings and "glide" to the ground?

Lying down and sticking your arms out an aerodynamic body does not make. The only way they would be stable is going at speed but even then without thermas or rudder control they would go down quicker than a sack of spuds

[Erys]

The real interesting thing about this ruling is that it means hypnotic pattern is the absolute best spell in the game at grounding groups of flying creatures. As if that spell needed to be more powerful...

Technically no, Hypnotic Pattern just Charms its victims. It does not stun them.



Ah yes, but assuming no significant air resistance, that distance, in 6 seconds, is 580 feet, or 116 standard map squares.

May I ask how you calculated that? I am still a tad unsure of how 'time' progresses in D&D.

The falling rate is from how we fall in real life. You will fall about 580 feet in 6 seconds.

In D&D terms one round is 6 seconds and each square on a map is 5 feet; hence, In one round you would fall 116 standard map squares (straight down).

[Fishyninja]

Technically no, Hypnotic Pattern just Charms its victims. It does not stun them.



The falling rate is from how we fall in real life. You will fall about 580 feet in 6 seconds.

In D&D terms one round is 6 seconds and each square on a map is 5 feet; hence, In one round you would fall 116 standard map squares (straight down).

So there is no acceleration or anything? It's a case of if you are falling in six seconds you will always cover 580ft (about 176m)?

[Mellack]

So there is no acceleration or anything? It's a case of if you are falling in six seconds you will always cover 580ft (about 176m)?

The 580 feet would be starting from rest (vertically) and ingoring air resistance. It would be be around 1000 feet more travelled during the next six second round due to acceleration* with still ignoring air resistance. Those distances would be altered if the item or creature had started the fall with any speed either up or down, but not by great amounts.

Edit: second round it would fall around 1500 feet more (neglecting air resistance) instead of 1000. I mistakenly calculated two rounds as 10 seconds instead of 12.

[Fishyninja]

The 580 feet would be starting from rest (vertically) and ingoring air resistance. It would be be around 1000 feet more travelled during the next six second round due to acceleration* with still ignoring air resistance. Those distances would be altered if the item or creature had started the fall with any speed either up or down, but not by great amounts.

Just seems an insanely large distance in 6 seconds as the average acceleration is 9.75s(2) or 32fps(ps).

[Dr. Cliché]

Out of interest, what would happen if you cast Otto's Irresistible Dance on a flying creature?

[Mellack]

Just seems an insanely large distance in 6 seconds as the average acceleration is 9.75s(2) or 32fps(ps).

It is fairly straightforward math, but even easier there is a website that will do it for you. Put in the number of seconds and it will give you distance.
http://keisan.casio.com/exec/system/1224835316

[BiPolar]

Technically no, Hypnotic Pattern just Charms its victims. It does not stun them.

Technically no, it also sets their speed to zero and gives them the incapacitated condition (no actions or reactions). :smallcool:

[Fishyninja]

It is fairly straightforward math, but even easier there is a website that will do it for you. Put in the number of seconds and it will give you distance.
http://keisan.casio.com/exec/system/1224835316

I checked the math, It's right!

[Erys]

Technically no, it also sets their speed to zero and gives them the incapacitated condition (no actions or reactions). :smallcool:

Good catch, that's what I get for posting away from my books. /blush

So, yes; that is a great spell against an aerial squad. Talk about a save or suck situation. HA!!


Out of interest, what would happen if you cast Otto's Irresistible Dance on a flying creature?

I had to do some digging. Apparently:

Can a flying creature without the hover trait stay in one place while airborne, or does it need to move each round? A flyer that lacks the hover trait can stay aloft without moving each round.
Cite (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-june-2016)


As long its move isn't reduced to zero I suppose it just does the cabbage patch while staying aloft.

[Dr. Cliché]

I had to do some digging. Apparently:


As long its move isn't reduced to zero I suppose it just does the cabbage patch while staying aloft.

But would it count as dancing if it was still flapping its wings normally?

It seems equivalent to a human "dancing" only with his upper body, whilst his legs jog on the spot (and not to the beat). :smalltongue:

[dejarnjc]

Technically no, Hypnotic Pattern just Charms its victims. It does not stun them.


Technically yes, "While charmed by this spell, the creature is incapacitated and has a speed of 0."

Edit, whoops, someone else already brought this up.

[dejarnjc]

What do you think would happen to an armored humaniod who was swimming and they got stunned? Would they continue treading water or would you have them start sinking?

I'd have them sink a foot or two maybe but not sink like a rock like they would if they were paralyzed.


Lying down and sticking your arms out an aerodynamic body does not make. The only way they would be stable is going at speed but even then without thermas or rudder control they would go down quicker than a sack of spuds

As I said, this isn't about D&D as simulation, this is about internal consistency and verisimilitude. IF you stun an Aarackora on land and then whack him three times with a great maul and he doesn't go down, THEN for me at least (feel free to do it your own way) it doesn't make sense to have a stunned Aarackora in the air just plummet as if it didn't have wings.

[Escribblings]

It is fairly straightforward math, but even easier there is a website that will do it for you. Put in the number of seconds and it will give you distance.
http://keisan.casio.com/exec/system/1224835316


I checked the math, It's right!

Exactly, it's an acceleration of (32'/s)/s

And it can be calculated as

(S²×32)÷2 where S = seconds.
(6²×32)÷2 =
((6×6)×32)÷2 =
(36×32)÷2 =
1152÷2 = 576

For the second round of falling out would fall

((12²×32)÷2)-576 = 1728'

But then there's terminal velocity to take into account, which according to various sites for a 170lb skydiver is about 176'/s

Which you would reach in 5.5 seconds.

For arguments sake let's say it's 192'/s (6×32)

So in actual fact, the distance covered in the second round and every round thereafter until hitting the ground would be 192×6 or 1,152'