Dragonwrought Kobold JPM gish

[danielxcutter]

Thought exercise. I'm not planning on using this for a real character in play anytime soon, if at all.

Kobolds who do the Greater Draconic Ritual get a effective level in Sorcerer, which stacks with existing Sorcerer levels.

So a Sorcerer 5(+1)/Crusader 1/Abjurant Champion 4/JPM 10 would hit the benchmark of 9th level spells and +16(actually 17) BAB. I chose Crusader because Desert Wind is underpowered somewhat and Warblade doesn't have Devoted Spirit.

So here are a few parts about the build that I'd like advice on.

1. I think that this guy would be best off if he used a blunt weapon and took Greater Mighty Wallop, as he's Small-sized and GMW is really good for covering that. Further more, I believe that the greatclub and the maul are both Devoted Spirit weapons, so the fluff is good as well. So, which one should I choose? Or should I go with something completely different, like unarmed strikes?

2. What feats should I take besides Power Attack, Arcane Strike, Extend Spell, and Persist Spell? I'm looking for stuff specifically for this character, not just generally good feats.

Edit: Oh yeah, the Searing Spell metamagic feat and the Fiery Burst reserve feat sound good as well.

3. Could you help me choosing maneuvers and stances? Focusing on getting the highest level Devoted Spirit maneuver(probably 7th or 8th) possible is a given, but otherwise my ears are open.

4. Yeah, I know that focusing on buffs for spells known is the optimal choice. However, I'd really like to add other spells - mostly blasting spells with the [fire] descriptor, but others that fit the flavor of a mystical warrior-mage are also very welcome. Is there room, and if so, which should I choose? Fire Shield, Orb of Fire, Fireball, and Wall of Fire sound okay, but otherwise I'm drawing a blank.

5. Any other advice that's really important, and isn't "go Wizard, that's more optimal" or something?

[danielxcutter]

Edit bump. Anyone there?

[Novolin]

I hear alot about dragonroght kobold here. Whats it?

[Kelb_Panthera]

I hear alot about dragonroght kobold here. Whats it?

Races of the Dragon introduced a kobold racial feat; dragonwrought. It changes the kobold's creature type to dragon and keeps them from taking aging penalties.

There's also a hot debate on whether it allows a kobold to qualify as a true dragon. If it does, they're qualified for a number of extraordinarily powerful options and exploits.

[danielxcutter]

I hear alot about dragonroght kobold here. Whats it?

I'm not an expert on the topic, but I believe that Dragonwrought Kobolds who have done the Greater Draconic Ritual, which for the price of a semi-expensive gem and 3 hit points, gives the Kobold in question an effective level in Sorcerer that stacks with existing Sorcerer levels, and allows the Kobold to qualify as a true dragon for prerequisites. And yes, it is just as overpowered as it sounds like.

Edit: Swordsaged on my own thread.

Edit 2: Oops, Kelb is right and I'm not. Just ignore my post.

[Crake]

I'm not an expert on the topic, but I believe that Dragonwrought Kobolds who have done the Greater Draconic Ritual, which for the price of a semi-expensive gem and 3 hit points, gives the Kobold in question an effective level in Sorcerer that stacks with existing Sorcerer levels, and allows the Kobold to qualify as a true dragon for prerequisites. And yes, it is just as overpowered as it sounds like.

Edit: Swordsaged on my own thread.

Edit 2: Oops, Kelb is right and I'm not. Just ignore my post.

Honestly, the greater draconic rite isn't even that powerful when you compare sorcerers to other t1s. It brings their casting on par, which honestly is where it should have been all along (something wizards decided to do in 5e by the way).

[Inevitability]

Honestly, the greater draconic rite isn't even that powerful when you compare sorcerers to other t1s. It brings their casting on par, which honestly is where it should have been all along (something wizards decided to do in 5e by the way).

'It balances them against tier 1s' has never been an argument in anything's favor, unless you're gaming with Tippy.

[ryu]

'It balances them against tier 1s' has never been an argument in anything's favor, unless you're gaming with Tippy.

Or me. This doesn't really even bring them truly in line with wizards. It just fills one of their many deficiencies.

[danielxcutter]

'It balances them against tier 1s' has never been an argument in anything's favor, unless you're gaming with Tippy.

Ha ha ha, true.

Now can we start talking about the actual OP??

[Darrin]

Edit bump. Anyone there?

Patience. I don't have timestop as an at-will (Su).


I chose Crusader because Desert Wind is underpowered somewhat and Warblade doesn't have Devoted Spirit.


Crusader has the better action economy. You don't have to waste a feat on Adaptive Style and can still use your swift actions for spells.



1. I think that this guy would be best off if he used a blunt weapon and took Greater Mighty Wallop, as he's Small-sized and GMW is really good for covering that. Further more, I believe that the greatclub and the maul are both Devoted Spirit weapons, so the fluff is good as well. So, which one should I choose? Or should I go with something completely different, like unarmed strikes?


There really isn't much synergy with choosing a discipline focus weapon unless you're doing something with Shadow Blade or Bloodclaw Master. That being said... I think the greatclub is better for a gish, and is also a Three Mountains [style] weapon, which is one of the less annoying weapon styles to qualify for.

On the other... claw... kobolds have three natural weapons (claw/claw/bite), and Improved Unarmed Strike adds another one for a somewhat impressive full attack routine. IUS can be added via magic item if need be: Bracers of Striking (1310 GP, Magic of Faerun), Ring of Might (4000 GP, Magic of Faerun), or Fanged Ring (10000 GP, Dragon Magic).

Third option... quarterstaff. It's bludgeoning, it can be made into an elvencraft bow (300 GP, Races of the Wild), and has room for two (possibly three) wand chambers (100 GP, Dungeonscape). You're going to want swift-action wands, as many as you can get your hands on. Recommended: blades of fire, blade of blood. If you can get some UMD into the build, instant of power (Forge of War).



2. What feats should I take besides Power Attack, Arcane Strike, Extend Spell, and Persist Spell? I'm looking for stuff specifically for this character, not just generally good feats.


Minor Shapeshift (Complete Mage) is a "Must Get" for most gish builds.

Without a decent method to offset the level adjustment, I'm not sure you'll get much use out of Persist Spell. Smiting Spell (PHBII) might be worth a look, particularly for combust.

On a Crusader chassis, Extra Granted Maneuver is always worth considering.



Edit: Oh yeah, the Searing Spell metamagic feat and the Fiery Burst reserve feat sound good as well.


Acidic Splatter is a better pick, as it's a ranged touch attack with no save. Doesn't quite match the flavor, though.



3. Could you help me choosing maneuvers and stances? Focusing on getting the highest level Devoted Spirit maneuver(probably 7th or 8th) possible is a given, but otherwise my ears are open.


Crusader 1 : Crusader's Strike, Vanguard Strike, Mountain Hammer, Douse the Flames, Battle Leader's Charge, Martial Spirit (stance).

Douse the Flames is kinda a tossup... you need at least one White Raven maneuver to take Battle Leader's Charge. Leading the Attack (+4 morale bonus) is not quite as good as Vanguard Strike (+4 untyped bonus), but might be a better pick than Douse the Flames. I was thinking as a Gish it might be nice to drop this on an opponent if you want to get a swift-action spell off and want to avoid AoOs, but if your Concentration is maxed then casting defensively shouldn't be all that difficult.

JPM1 [IL 6.5]: Revitalizing Strike.

Attack + healing with a standard action.

JPM3 [IL 8.5]: Divine Surge.

Pretty solid damage for a standard-action strike.

JPM 5 [IL 10.5]: Radiant Charge, Thicket of Blades

I am not so happy with these choices. What I *really* want is Rallying Strike and Aura of Chaos, but you're short 0.5 ILs. I wasn't sure what alignment this kobold would be, but I suppose Radiant Charge is the most decent pick, as the majority of common enemies tend to be evil. Thicket of Blades is typically found in lockdown builds, which this isn't but it's not... entirely terrible?

Alternatively, if you want to get at least some Desert Wind stuff, you could pick up Burning Blade and Flame's Blessing here. Burning Blade scales up with your IL, and while yes [fire] resistance/immunity is very common, can you really say a melee attack isn't somehow better when you add "on fire"? Flame's Blessing eventually gets you immunity to [fire] damage, which is a very nice thing to have just a swift action away. JPM has Tumble as a class skill, but if you want to get some ranks earlier, use the Skilled City-Dweller ACF from the Cityscape Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) with your Crusader level to swap your Ride skill with Tumble.

JPM7 [IL 12.5]: Rallying Strike.

Attack + 30' healing burst.

JPM9 [IL 14.5]: Castigating Strike.

A melee area effect... unusual. There's a quirk to it, too: your initial opponent has to be evil to trigger the effect, but the rest of your opponents don't need to be. Unfortunately, at this level, the 5d6 and -2 attack penalty is more annoying than dangerous with a successful Fort save.

On the other hand... Inferno Blade as no prereqs. It's good to have swift-action boosts if you're short on swift-action spells.

Unfortunately, you don't gain any maneuvers or stances when you get to 15 IL. I suppose at 20th level, a [I]heroics spell can get you either Martial Study: Greater Divine Surge or Martial Stance: Immortal Fortitude. Picking up the Faithful Avenger (Legacy Weapon for Devoted Spirit) could also get you access to Immortal Fortitude. A Master Devoted Spirit Amulet (45000 GP) is probably worth picking up as well.



4. Yeah, I know that focusing on buffs for spells known is the optimal choice. However, I'd really like to add other spells - mostly blasting spells with the [fire] descriptor, but others that fit the flavor of a mystical warrior-mage are also very welcome. Is there room, and if so, which should I choose? Fire Shield, Orb of Fire, Fireball, and Wall of Fire sound okay, but otherwise I'm drawing a blank.


Blades of fire. Combust. Kaupaer's Quickblast (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050112a). Also amusing: lesser fireball (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20020227a). Who's a cute widdle itsy-bitsy fireball?

If you are of a mind that the fluff on how sorcerers can pick up "unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of by study" from other caster lists... transcend mortality + Emerald Immolation is awesomesauce on toast.



5. Any other advice that's really important, and isn't "go Wizard, that's more optimal" or something?

Devoted Spirit/White Raven works best when you've got allies around you. I'm not sure if this kobold is supposed to work with a party, but summon spells can get you allies. Pick up some Golden Desert Honey (300 GP, Complete Mage) to speed up the summon spells to standard actions.

Glyph Seals (1000/4000 GP, MIC) are awesome for free-action casting.

[WhamBamSam]

If Dragonwrought Kobolds are True Dragons (unfortunately this is likely not the case), then the variant Wyrm of War Sovereign Archetype allows you to trade Sorcerer spell slots and spells known for Tiger Claw maneuvers/stances of the same level. That's not a great trade, generally, but more importantly, the initiator level is equal to your effective Sorcerer level, and JPM explicitly stacks with existing IL, allowing for IL bootstrapping above even the Legacy Champion cheese. You're stuck with Devoted Spirit and Desert Wind unless you burn spells on Tiger Claw maneuvers, spend feats on Martial Study/Stance, and/or use other ToB PrCs (ToB base classes will mean you're stuck with their lower IL, so dipping them is only good for prereq maneuvers not higher level ones), but it's still a pretty snazzy trick if you can get away with it.

If you want a slightly less conventional Dragonwrought Sorcerer/JPM build (which might be easier to make the stats line up for), you might consider the interaction between the Ghostly Tail spell (Sorcerer 1, Races of the Dragon) and the Defensive Rebuke boost (which just so happens to be in Devoted Spirit). Defensive Rebuke works even on ranged attacks, and Ghostly Tail gives you a translucent tail for hours/level which does the following.
If your foe takes an action that would provoke an attack of opportunity from you, even if you are not holding a melee weapon that would normally threaten your foe, your evoked dragon's tail attacks the target with a melee touch attack, dealing 2d6 points of damage on a successful hit.
You can only strike with a ghostly tail if you have not already taken your allowed number of attacks of opportunity in the round.
Special: A dragonblooded character, or a character with the dragon type, deals an extra 1 point of damage per level with a ghostly tail (maximum 20 points).Meaning you can shoot an enemy with your bow, and then smack them with your tail if they attack anyone other then you, and can explicitly do so even if they're not within your melee reach. You can Empower it for free through JPM's Empowering Strike (scratch an ally with your tiny claws on one of the healing Devoted Spirit maneuvers at the beginning of the day before you cast Ghostly Tail), and can sprinkle in Fell X metamagics to taste. If you want to sprinkle on some Dragonwrought cheese (which works just from being an Old or older dragon, regardless of whether or not Dragonwrought Kobolds are True Dragons), and can fit all the feats in, you can take the epic feat Swarm of Arrows which would allow you to shoot every enemy within 30 ft to set up Defensive Rebuke, though that's perhaps not worth it unless you're regularly swarmed with more enemies than an ordinary Rapid Shot routine will hit.

If you want to melee, then you should either go Arctic Kobold for less bad Str, replace the Crusader level with Swordsage and go for Shadow Blade, or just Polymorph/Draconic Polymorph yourself into something bigger and meaner. For non-Persist Polymorph-reliant builds, I'm fond of the combination of the Quick Potion spell, the Delay Potion feat, and the Sanctum Spell feat. Sanctum Polymorph, when cast from outside your Sanctum, is 3rd level, and hence can be cast into a Quick Potion. Drink said potion and Delay it, and you can then activate it as a swift when the need arises (swift actions are at something of a premium on an initiator, but still not as bad as needing to burn a standard to buff yourself).

You can use the Heroics spell to pick up Martial Study/Stance for anything you qualify for. Even if you aren't polymorphing, Delayed Potions of Heroics for a floating Martial Study might be worth a spell known and feat.

[Troacctid]

Don't go Arctic Kobold, just use a single casting of ray of resurgence to remove your Strength penalty. (Yeah, it can do that.) A wand with a single charge at CL 3 should cost 45 gp.

If you're not using multiclass penalties, then I would go Desert Kobold to avoid the Con penalty. Otherwise the standard model is fine.

I recommend bladeweave as one of your 2nd level spells.

For fire spells, if you want one of every level for Fiery Burst, I would say combust at 2nd level, fireball at 3rd level, orb of fire at 4th, heart of fire at 5th, haze of smoldering stone at 6th, and scalding touch at 7th (this one is absurd, you make 13+ attacks in one round, each dealing 13d6 damage plus a save-or-daze, completely broken).

You want to use the Stalwart Sorcerer variant from Complete Mage. Choose the greatpick as your martial weapon. Then, undergo the Rite of Rebirth to become a Dragonborn. You lose your racial weapon familiarity with greatpicks, so you no longer qualify for Martial Weapon Proficiency (Greatpick) or Weapon Focus (Greatpick). Both of them are therefore replaced with any bonus feat of your choice. Humans, eat your heart out.

Another useful trick is to take Apprentice (Spellcaster) along with a bloodline feat, and use Apprentice to swap out undesired bloodline spells for ones that you actually want.

[danielxcutter]

Great ideas, all of them! Keep up the good work!

[WhamBamSam]

Don't go Arctic Kobold, just use a single casting of ray of resurgence to remove your Strength penalty. (Yeah, it can do that.) A wand with a single charge at CL 3 should cost 45 gp.Are negative racial modifiers to ability scores actually explicitly referred to as penalties? I know the loss in Str from a Tibbit's transformation is, but I didn't think it was true in generality.


If you're not using multiclass penalties, then I would go Desert Kobold to avoid the Con penalty. Otherwise the standard model is fine.Jungle Kobold is viable if you need to keep Favored Class: Sorcerer. With the age bonuses, it's still a net +1 to Int.


I recommend bladeweave as one of your 2nd level spells.Should work even on the archer build I suggested, either through Elvencraft Bow cheese, or the fact that Ghostly Tail makes melee attacks.


You want to use the Stalwart Sorcerer variant from Complete Mage. Choose the greatpick as your martial weapon. Then, undergo the Rite of Rebirth to become a Dragonborn. You lose your racial weapon familiarity with greatpicks, so you no longer qualify for Martial Weapon Proficiency (Greatpick) or Weapon Focus (Greatpick). Both of them are therefore replaced with any bonus feat of your choice. Humans, eat your heart out.Nifty. I'm always a little wary of going Dragonborn on Dragonwrought Kobolds, because I'm never sure how aging after rebirth works. You explicitly lose age benefits from before undergoing the Rite of Rebirth, and then I'm never sure if Dragonwrought kobolds ignoring penalties from aging is racial or derived from the Dragonwrought feat, since it's mentioned under the age category table, rather than under racial abilities or the feat description, so I never know if you can age back to venerable without penalty after becoming a Dragonborn.

It's definitely something I'll have to keep in mind for future reference on Weapon Familiarity races though.


Another useful trick is to take Apprentice (Spellcaster) along with a bloodline feat, and use Apprentice to swap out undesired bloodline spells for ones that you actually want.Also nifty, but only works in conjunction with the above trick or with flaws, as Dragonwrought eats your only 1st level feat otherwise.

[Troacctid]

Are negative racial modifiers to ability scores actually explicitly referred to as penalties? I know the loss in Str from a Tibbit's transformation is, but I didn't think it was true in generality.
Yep, it's a thing.

[danielxcutter]

Yep, it's a thing.

So is that temporary or a permanent thing, because it seems cheesy either way to me!

[Troacctid]

Neither—it's instantaneous. No dispelling, no need to worry about dead magic zones, nothing like that. The penalty is gone like it was never there.

[Inevitability]

So is that temporary or a permanent thing, because it seems cheesy either way to me!

The Ray is instantaneous, so... unendable by most, if not any, means.

[Kelb_Panthera]

So is that temporary or a permanent thing, because it seems cheesy either way to me!

You're not wrong about it being cheesy. The racial penalty to an ability isn't some kind of malady to be cured, it's just part of the physiological differences between races.

In fact, this may not be legal. The penalty applies to the die roll to determine abilities rather than existing as a constant penalty on the ability after it's generated.

In any case, unless you intend to include some of the more nonsensical quirks of RAW in your story, you may just want to write this particular trick off as the absurdity it is.

[Troacctid]

In fact, this may not be legal. The penalty applies to the die roll to determine abilities rather than existing as a constant penalty on the ability after it's generated.
If it only applied as a modifier to the die roll during character creation, I feel like it could have some very awkward implications for dragonborn, spellscales, any acquired template, reincarnate, etc. (Well, maybe not reincarnate because of its specific provisions, but you get the idea.) This seems like a solution that probably causes more dysfunctions than it fixes.

Anyway, the Player's Handbook does actually say that racial ability modifiers are applied after stats are rolled and assigned, which I take to mean that they're not just modifiers to the rolls.