Pretty Solid PC Lich Wizard, what do you think?

[Meierme176]

If you haven't seen the lich template give it a gander before continuing.

My decisions:

I rolled super well except for constitution. Well we all know how much undead need their constitution...
Race: Grey Elf (for the intelligence)
Ability Scores: Prioritizing Intelligence and Charisma

Level Progression: (in order)

5 wizard

9 Incantatrix for the free metamagic and other benefits

At lvl 14 take lich template

5 Lady/Lord of the Dead for the turn resistance and other benefits

2 Archmage for the High Arcana abilities.

At lvl 21 take demilich template

(If you ever get to level again) 3 Tomb Warden to alert you when people are around your phylacteries and become immune to turning

Once I hit epic levels my dm is letting me create my own plane (It's at a great cost). Hes giving me creative freedom and I have been making it almost impossible for anything but undead to survive for more than a couple seconds. Even if they can survive the 1 degree kelvin temp, no oxygen, super accelerated time, electrified ground, constant giant pulses of negative energy, they will have to figure out the puzzles to travel between the hundreds (if I can get the computer program to add more it'll be more like 1,000s) of orbs containing the only occupiable areas of the plane. Ill hide all 7 of my phylacteries there.

Feats:

Scribe Scroll
Iron Will
Undead Leadership
Craft Wonderous Item
Craft Wand
Skill Focus (spellcraft)
Extend Spell
Widen Spell
Quicken Spell
Improved Paralysis
Improved Turn Resistance
Unholy Toughness

Items:

Robe of the Archmagi
Vest of the Archmagi
Ring of Desecration, Greater
Ring of Unholy Aura, Greater
Cloak of turn resistance
Mask of True Seeing
Boots of Big Stepping
Casting Gloves
Rod Of Undead Mastery
bunch of ioun stones

Weapon:

Quarterstaff (able to have a bunch of enchantments)
--Spellblade on both sides (dispel magic, greater dispel magic)
--Sizing
--Spell Storing
--Disarming

Am I missing anything? Any Advice?

[Inevitability]

If you want to create your own plane, there's no need to pay a 'great cost'. There's a spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/genesis.htm) that does it for cheap.

Also, even though Lord/Lady of the Dead itself is freely available, the site you're linking to contains lots of copyrighted stuff. Why not use this (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20021031x) link?

Tomb Warden is definitely not legal to link to.

[SilverLeaf167]

Well, it all depends on how the campaign is actually going to work. What level are you starting at, what are your odds of even reaching the level that this becomes relevant, etc. etc. And I really hope the rest of the party is similarly optimized.

A personal plane that you have complete control over is obviously a pretty big gamebreaker that's hard to comment on with actual mechanical advice. I'm curious, what do you mean by "computer program"? And are you actually designing hundreds/thousands of puzzles, or just saying they're there? (The latter seems possible for an epic-level Int-based character who's presumably much smarter than any player or DM)

I don't see "Spell Focus in two schools of magic", which is a prerequisite for Archmage.

Apart from that, it looks pretty straight-forward for an optimized Wizard build. Your spell selection (and usage) is likely to be more relevant for your success than anything else. The usual tricks are pretty easy to find, but someone with more interest in TO can probably help with that.

[Meierme176]

If you want to create your own plane, there's no need to pay a 'great cost'. There's a spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/genesis.htm) that does it for cheap.

Also, even though Lord/Lady of the Dead itself is freely available, the site you're linking to contains lots of copyrighted stuff. Why not use this (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20021031x) link?

Tomb Warden is definitely not legal to link to.

Kind of just figured if I am able to link to it without copying any of its material its ok to do. I'm not stealing anything, I'm posting a link that anyone can easily google themselves. Just cutting out the process of doing so.

That spell isn't big enough for my needs. I require very elaborate mechanical properties.


Well, it all depends on how the campaign is actually going to work. What level are you starting at, what are your odds of even reaching the level that this becomes relevant, etc. etc. And I really hope the rest of the party is similarly optimized.

The campaign is evil, but not selfishly evil. We just do things that better our goals as a group (plan to take over the largest city by force). I started at lvl 14, but that was because I was bored of my last character and my DM let me re roll at the average level of the group (usually do that wen a PC dies off so they don't have to start over completely). The odds are great, we have been playing this campaign for over a year and a half consistently and have no thoughts on quitting. If anything we have been getting into it even more. What do you mean similarly optimized? I know I have researched my character more but that's because I'm a wizard and there are a lot of technicalities I have to think of.


A personal plane that you have complete control over is obviously a pretty big gamebreaker that's hard to comment on with actual mechanical advice. I'm curious, what do you mean by "computer program"? And are you actually designing hundreds/thousands of puzzles, or just saying they're there? (The latter seems possible for an epic-level Int-based character who's presumably much smarter than any player or DM)

I have control over the initial creation, after that I would have to navigate it like everyone else. Only thing is I know the solution to the puzzles letting me navigate with ease, I will be the only one that knows it exists, and will be the only one that knows how to travel to and from the plane. Beyond that, after creation I no longer have control. I cant just randomly create prison cell around someone (without casting a known spell). I only see it a problem when someone tries to find my phylacteries. It just makes it super hard to permanently off me, doesn't give me any other special abilities.

I quickly wrote a java program that randomly set up "domes." They are essentially floating in free space but pass each other every once and a while. Trick is you cant see when they are close, the outer shell of the dome is pitch black and completely solid. You have to know when the dome you are looking for is about to pass and jump through a veil of sorts. The "door" is only open for 1 second (players have to roll a d6 for every 5 ft square they take up in length (a large character rolls twice) to see if they made it through in time, if it lands on one they are cut in half). The computer randomized it on a 10 second interval. This would mean that 10 orbs will pass in a circular fashion consistently.

I'm still working out all the details but I have a while before I'm there.



I don't see "Spell Focus in two schools of magic", which is a prerequisite for Archmage.

Hmm, good point. I'll have to think of something else for those two levels.


Apart from that, it looks pretty straight-forward for an optimized Wizard build. Your spell selection (and usage) is likely to be more relevant for your success than anything else. The usual tricks are pretty easy to find, but someone with more interest in TO can probably help with that.

Yeah the wizard part is pretty well researched and the info is all out there. I was more looking for advice on the lich side. I don't know what I don't know, so asking for particular advice is difficult.

[GilesTheCleric]

Linking to copyright materials is against the board policy. You might want to re-read the rules if it wasn't clear the first time.

Are you sure you want fast time? That can mess up your own plans if you ever spend time on your plane.

[Meierme176]

Linking to copyright materials is against the board policy. You might want to re-read the rules if it wasn't clear the first time.

Are you sure you want fast time? That can mess up your own plans if you ever spend time on your plane.

Oh gotcha, Its against board policy not illegal. I just read that portion. To be fair there are a lot of rules and all I'm doing is looking for advice. In the future I'll just state the name of the intended spell, class, etc.

Time in the plane will pass by super quick, I was thinking about a minute in the material plane being a year in my plane. The only part of my plane that wont be a floating dome will be a giant center spire (the thing emitting the pulses of negative energy) and as you get closer to it time goes even faster. The point is that undead are immune to the negative effects of time, cold, and electricity (plus a massive list of other things, more so when you hit demilich (seriously though, if you haven't looked at demilich you should.. sooo OP)). I don't think there are many good undead characters so even if they figured out I have my phylacteries in this plane and figured out how to get there they would probably not be expecting all the other things that come with it. It makes it super hard to prepare for a fight against me, especially when you throw in the fact you are facing something immune to magic.

The character I play is very lawful evil. He doesn't do anything inherently cruel or evil for fun. All he seeks is knowledge (not necessarily power). He is just really curious and knows that demilich is the best way to secure his time with the living to learn all he can. The only time he does evil acts is to further his knowledge (someone has a book and wont give it up). having the accelerated time on my plane allows me as a player to go "ok he has 400 books to read, Makili travels to his plane, reads them and comes back a minute later" or it will accelerate the creation of a wondrous item.

[Inevitability]

Oh gotcha, Its against board policy not illegal. I just read that portion. To be fair there are a lot of rules and all I'm doing is looking for advice. In the future I'll just state the name of the intended spell, class, etc.

If I were you, I'd edit my post to remove those links, because you're still violating the forum rules right now.

And I wouldn't say it's 'not illegal'. The original dndtools got taken down after legal action by WotC, and while there's some more ambiguity regarding its subsequent mirrors, I'm not sure I'd call those legal.

[Meierme176]

If I were you, I'd edit my post to remove those links, because you're still violating the forum rules right now.

And I wouldn't say it's 'not illegal'. The original dndtools got taken down after legal action by WotC, and while there's some more ambiguity regarding its subsequent mirrors, I'm not sure I'd call those legal.

Screw it, people can look up their own stuff. I'm not getting banned for something so stupid. Thanks for the advice though. These laws are so stupid, the game has been out forever, the info is out there. I shouldn't have to get in trouble for referencing something I already payed money for...

Back to the matter at hand, does anyone have any advice for those two levels?

[Inevitability]

Screw it, people can look up their own stuff. I'm not getting banned for something so stupid. Thanks for the advice though. These laws are so stupid, the game has been out forever, the info is out there. I shouldn't have to get in trouble for referencing something I already payed money for...

Back to the matter at hand, does anyone have any advice for those two levels?

Fatespinner doesn't really require any build resources except for five skill ranks, but its first two levels advance casting and are pretty nice in general. Oh, you just saved against that Imprisonment? Please reroll it with an addition +2 to the DC.

[Yogibear41]

Pretty sure Unholy Toughness isn't a feat, unless that is some sort of homebrew you are using with your DM?

Please correct me if im wrong because my undead Paladin would love it. :smallsmile:

[Caelestion]

How do you expect anything to work in your demiplane if the ambient temperature is one degree above absolute zero? Why not just settle for "very, very cold" and leave it at that?

[Meierme176]

Fatespinner doesn't really require any build resources except for five skill ranks, but its first two levels advance casting and are pretty nice in general. Oh, you just saved against that Imprisonment? Please reroll it with an addition +2 to the DC.

Haha, That's perfect!!


Pretty sure Unholy Toughness isn't a feat, unless that is some sort of homebrew you are using with your DM?

Please correct me if I'm wrong because my undead Paladin would love it. :smallsmile:

Lirbis Mortis: The Book of Undead, IIRC. It is Charisma to HP. I'm not allowed to link it or anything, you'll have to find it


How do you expect anything to work in your demiplane if the ambient temperature is one degree above absolute zero? Why not just settle for "very, very cold" and leave it at that?

That's just it, noting is supposed to work. The entire purpose of the plane is to hide my phylacteries. You are right though, 1 degree kelvin wouldn't allow for an electrical current. Ill have to see what the lowest temperature I can have is.

[Yogibear41]

I know what unholy toughness is. Its an EX ability. Its not a feat, is what I am trying to say. The only way I know how to get it as a player character would be via the dry lich template. Improved Toughness is a feat in libris mortis, but it is very much inferior to unholy toughness.

[Meierme176]

I know what unholy toughness is. Its an EX ability. Its not a feat, is what I am trying to say. The only way I know how to get it as a player character would be via the dry lich template. Improved Toughness is a feat in libris mortis, but it is very much inferior to unholy toughness.

Oh sorry, yeah its homebrew (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Unholy_Toughness_(3.5e_Feat)).

[Celestia]

If you're dropping constitution anyways, you could always add in the Unseelie Fey template at +0. It's got some nice things like flight and a permanent Magic Circle against X effect. It'll also boost your dexterity and charisma.

[Inevitability]

If you're dropping constitution anyways, you could always add in the Unseelie Fey template at +0. It's got some nice things like flight and a permanent Magic Circle against X effect. It'll also boost your dexterity and charisma.

Before you do this, equip a +5 Shirt of Protection From Books.


Haha, That's perfect!!

That's good to hear; glad I could be of assistance! :smallsmile: