PDA

View Full Version : Is abjurant champion worth it?



SangoProduction
2017-01-08, 07:10 AM
On a gish, of course. (And by that, I mean mostly caster, maybe a dip or 2 in other classes, but uses spells to be a better fighter than the fighter.) I keep hearing people praise it for being a gish's wet dream. But I am somewhat unimpressed. I mean, not saying it's bad. Just it's not super great. You're not losing anything from your base class, but you are losing the opportunity to take other stuff.

It's got full casting progression yes. Extended Abjuration is also extremely nice. It does, unfortunately only affect Abjuration, but that's more free metamagic you could normally get (unless you go Incantrix or Spelldancer), and without the feat.

Abjurant Armor is slightly underwhelming, but I guess it could net you a +10 bonus to AC on top of Shield and ...well, the only abjuration that gives an armor bonus is Luminous Armor. I don't see that being allowed often. But enough GMs just say "Yeah, Mage Armor works."

If you could find that Second Shield spell that gives your familiar a shield, and can provide you further AC, explicitly stacking with Shield, then it could be impressive at a +15. I can't find it again though. I mean, you've got mirror image and multiple spells that grant miss chance. Those are so much more powerful than AC, and don't spend 5 levels to become really good. AC isn't countered by true seeing but still.

Swift Abjuration is really quite nice, especially for the Gish role...though, the limitation to level 2 or lower when you get to level 4 hurts. Especially since you can buy a Metamagic Rod Quicken and enhance higher level spells no restricted to a school of magic. Though a couple times per day. But how many swift actions will you have in combat daily?

Arcane boost may as well not exist. Martial Arcanist is actually nice...if you've spent most of your levels not being a spellcaster.

The scaling makes it seem as though you should take a lot of levels...but there's only 5. If it was an even 6, then I might see it as kinda decent, though you're giving up levels for what could just as effectively be handled by gold (save for the +12 to AC on top of the spells, which could actually take a good deal of money to replicate...if you exclude direct miss-chance-granting effects like blur).

As is though? It might be good for a 2 level dip. Mostly because if you're getting 1 level, you may as well also get a quickened Shield, Nightshield, or Resistance whenever you want it as well. Just in case of an ambush since they tend to be shorter duration spells. Free Extend spell (even if it is restricted to a school) is always nice.

Nifft
2017-01-08, 07:14 AM
Usually it boils down to: what else could you use those 5 levels for?

Abjurant Champion is nice for the full BAB, because that can give you more attacks.

But if you've got another full-BAB, full-caster, has-class-features PrC which you'd prefer to use for those 5 levels... do it.

Crake
2017-01-08, 07:30 AM
As nifft said, there aren't too many full bab, full casting classes out there, so if you want to maintain a good bab:CL ratio, it's one of the much easier classes to get into and comes with a fair few goodies. Remember by the way that dispel magic is an abjuration, so being able to swift action dispel is always nice, and a good reason to take abjurant champion up to 5th level.

Other good classes that can stack together quite well for a gish are spellsword, and I find often overlooked, dragon slayer, great if you can get iron will via otyugh hole, both great 1 level dips to get full bab, decent save progressions, and full caster level, as well as some nice goodies, spellsword granting 10% ASF reduction and dragon slayer granting immunity to fear.

SangoProduction
2017-01-08, 07:36 AM
Remember by the way that dispel magic is an abjuration, so being able to swift action dispel is always nice, and a good reason to take abjurant champion up to 5th level..

Isn't rounding typically done rounding down?

Nifft
2017-01-08, 07:40 AM
Isn't rounding typically done rounding down?



Swift Abjuration (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, you can cast abjuration spells as a swift action, as if you had applied the Quicken Spell feat to them (but without any change in level). The maximum level of spell you can quicken in this way is equal to 1/2 your class level (rounded up).


Why would "typical" matter here?

NickTheGreek3
2017-01-08, 07:56 AM
I love Abjurant Champion. For me, it's the definition of a well-made and powerful prestige class (and is considered the best prestige class for gishes), without very demanding prerequisites. What you get from it:

+ Full BaB
+ Full caster level
+ d10 hit die
+ Neat class features

Honestly, that's all a gish character would want from a prestige class and more. Abjurers would also love it and probably some other Wizards, too (Abj. Champion requires proficiency with at least one martial weapon, so e.g. elves can qualify).

Only 2 levels in, you can both Extend and Quicken any Abjuration spell you know, be it Shield, Protection from Evil or any similar low-level spells. At 5 levels, can do the same for spells like Resist Energy and Magic Circle against Evil and your Shield spell grants you AC equal to a +1 Full Plate.

It's true that the later half is kinda underwhelming, compared to the first 2 levels. Arcane Boost looks kinda meh. Martial Arcanist is nice if you have full BaB, as you don't have to grab Practised Spellcaster to boost your caster level (although usually you should avoid losing caster level althogether).

Does Abj. Champion make an excellent 2 level dip? Absolutely. Is it worth it getting all 5 levels? That depends on you and your build.

John Longarrow
2017-01-08, 08:12 AM
Unlike most prestige classes for wizards, Abjurant champion isn't just for dedicated spell casters.

As others have pointed out its really easy to get into, boosts BAB/HP/Saves, and gives you class features a straight wizard wouldn't get. Where it really stands out though is in games where a melee specialist dips into sorcerer or wizard for a little help and can then skyrocket their casting while still being a primary melee combatant.

It is that it can be used in multiple builds without a lot of prep that makes it such a good prestige class not just its benefits to a dedicated spell caster.

NOTE: As an example of boosting melee builds, think how much more dangerous a Barbarian 4 / Sorcerer 2 / Abjurant champion 5 could be than Barbarian 11. Only one can two hand for full power attack after wraith striking.

Also for the quick abjuration it is round up based on the class itself.

Eldariel
2017-01-08, 10:49 AM
It depends on the comparison. It's not up there with the Tier 0 PRCs like Incantatrix, Halruaan Elder, Hathran, Dweomerkeeper, Red Wizard or such. It is, however, a fine PRC that's easily an improvement over the base chassis and particularly if you want to play a gish without having to rely on persistomancy (frankly, persistomancy is pretty high up the power pole and not appropriate for all games), it can be a very valuable tool indeed just for the +5 Casting, +5 BAB. Thanks to the easy entry requirements and immediate benefits it also helps Gish-builds get going a little earlier. Like the usual dive spot for Gishes is around 5-9 or so due to being both, poor casters and poor warriors (1-2 your class doesn't really matter for combat ability and 3-4 you can still make do); Abjurant Champion-based builds can make the last few of those levels more balanced.

lord_khaine
2017-01-08, 02:26 PM
Personally i prefer Jade Phoenix mage though. More interesting class features.

John Longarrow
2017-01-08, 02:43 PM
Personally i prefer Jade Phoenix mage though. More interesting class features.

A very fun build (from what I was told) is
Wizard (1)
Wizard (2)
Wizard (3)
Wizard (4)
Crusader (1)
Wizard (5)

Then Jade Phoenix Mage and Abjurant Champion (2 levels JPM first to meet BAB requirement). Gives you BAB and CL of 17 at 20th with either a level in JPM or AC left to take.

ShurikVch
2017-01-08, 02:50 PM
Martial Arcanist may allow for non-caster to get access to things which usually required some CL

Thurbane
2017-01-08, 03:22 PM
My only beef with AC is that it isn't 10 levels long! :smalltongue:

SangoProduction
2017-01-08, 04:38 PM
Why would "typical" matter here?

Ah, didn't see that. Makes the class better, definitely