Starting 2nd Chapter of ongoing campaign, Character Idea

[Mongobear]

Have on ongoing campaign that my group has been playing for the better end of 2 years now, and it is finally about to wrap up the current story arc. Because of reasons, my current character is unable to continue adventuring into the immediate future, so I am re-rolling something else. I have sort of settled on a "theme" but I don't quite know how to go about building it properly.

My idea, is to make some sort of Swashbuckler Rogue + Battlemaster Fighter multiclass that resembles Isabela in Dragon Age: Origins and DA2. I could probably pull it off just with straight Swashbuckler, but the benefits of Fighter + Maneuvers just seems too good to ignore.

Our current group just hit 12th level, and likely we will be close to 14th by the grand finale of the whole campaign, because we quite literally have a giant army to finish off as well as their demonic patron to banish from the material plane.

Not 100% sure on the specifics, but side talk has hinted at the new group starting at 10th or 12th level using point buy with a 32 point budget. Highly doubtful anything from UA is allowed outside of the current class specific ones, so please don't recommend something like Mariner or Blade Mastery feats.

Right now, assuming 12th level, I am looking at a Fighter 8/Rogue 4 split to start off, and being a Half-Elf because of literally perfect stats. Im thinking Dex/Con/Cha as high as possible, and Int as a secondary priority. Dual Wielding Scimitars and/or Short Swords, Light Armor, and the Alert Feat plus maybe Mobile, although Fancy Footwork sort of makes that redundant.

Any suggestions?

[djreynolds]

I like 7/5 uncanny dodge is so good. It's nice to have a choice between that and riposte. You can still have a 20 in Dex also.

[Mongobear]

I keep throwing around different level ranges--2/10, 3/9, 5/7, 6/6, 7/5, 8/4, and 9/3 but I always seem to circle back to Fighter 7/Rogue 5 solely because of Uncanny Dodge. I really want to go deeper up to Evasion, because its really good as well, but giving up Extra Attack at the start doesnt seem worth it. I want to have 2attacks + offhand attack at minimum AND end with an odd number of Rogue levels so that Sneak Attack is nice and even. I am looking at a final build of Fighter 13/Rogue 7 right now, doubtful I'll go further into Rogue than that.

[djreynolds]

Why not 12/8 just for the ASI

[Mongobear]

Why not 12/8 just for the ASI

I debated that, but it just feels dirty ending Rogue on an even number and not getting the extra Sneak Attack dice.

For that comparison specifically, is the extra ASI worth more than an additional Indomitable charge? Considering I will already have 6 ASIs by then, what will I gain from the 7th? Stats that matter most likely will be atleast an 18, likely a 20, and I would most likely have something like Alert, Mobile, or Resilient if I really decide I need it.

[djreynolds]

Well the persuasion ability at 9th for swashbuckler... why not

[Mongobear]

lol, im beginning to think maybe sticking full Swashbuckler might be the better option, maybe with a 2 or 3 level dip into Fighter for the Fighting Style and Action Surge + basic Battle Master maneuvers.

[djreynolds]

lol, im beginning to think maybe sticking full Swashbuckler might be the better option, maybe with a 2 or 3 level dip into Fighter for the Fighting Style and Action Surge + basic Battle Master maneuvers.

I'm playing a 12th level battlemaster/swashbuckler, currently 11th 6BM/5SW, and I'm leaning on taking the 7th level BM but more for the knowing the enemy aspect.

I only have a 10 in charisma, I choose it for rakish audacity.... now that is a class feature. I do need some more maneuvers though. I have the shield master feat, riposte, precision and menacing... I'm thinking now for disarm, cleave and maybe goading.

I do like battle master for that stuff.

[Mongobear]

I did a test run of a few builds of varying levels of fighter and rogue.

I tested a 16 Rogue/4 Fighter, 12 Rogue/8 Fighter, 11Fighter/9 Rogue, 12 Fighter/8 Rogue, 13 Fighter/7, and 15 Fighter/5 Rogue variation on the same build.

In sneakiness and skillmonkey-ness, the higher Rogue level builds performed well, but as a pseudo frontliner or skirmisher/hit and run "take out a high priority target" type of role which is what I wanted from this build, the versions with atleast 11 levels of Fighter performed very well at both murdering targets and surviving the counter attack, especially when combined with stuff like Uncanny Dodge, Riposte, Parry, and Evasion.

I am beginning to think I will start out with the maximum amount of Rogue levels I plan to take for the build, likely 5 or 7, and then level through to end game as straight Fighter. For the role I wish to accomplish, secondary melee + high priority target killer, I only really want the 3rd level Swashbuckler features, any further is just for the gravy of having Uncanny Dodge and/or Evasion.

Thoughts?

[Specter]

I'd cut Fighter at 6. Level 7 is just another dice and maneuvers, which can get very reduntant. With rogue at 6, that's more sneak, more expertise, and Uncanny Dodge which is so good. After that, full rogue. No reason to pump INT.

[Mongobear]

I'd cut Fighter at 6. Level 7 is just another dice and maneuvers, which can get very reduntant. With rogue at 6, that's more sneak, more expertise, and Uncanny Dodge which is so good. After that, full rogue. No reason to pump INT.

The idea of having 3 attacks per action AND the possibility of a Bonus Action 4th attack just seems too good, I know TWFing conflicts with Cunning Action for getting into and out of position, but having the availability of 3(4) attacks to ensure a Sneak Attack is landed every round and being suitably resilient enough not to get crushed in melee seems like a better version of what I want than being extra super duper sneaky and rogue-y.

[Specter]

The idea of having 3 attacks per action AND the possibility of a Bonus Action 4th attack just seems too good, I know TWFing conflicts with Cunning Action for getting into and out of position, but having the availability of 3(4) attacks to ensure a Sneak Attack is landed every round and being suitably resilient enough not to get crushed in melee seems like a better version of what I want than being extra super duper sneaky and rogue-y.

Mathematically, more sneak attack dice will beat 1d6+5 eventually. But to each its own.

[Mongobear]

Mathematically, more sneak attack dice will beat 1d6+5 eventually. But to each its own.

It's more than just the extra attack, more Fighter levels gives more HP and eventually buffs up Superiority Dice to d10/d12's if I go far enough. (Likely only d10s with this build)

So, in a way, yes, Sneak Attack would add more damage on that one hit, but the trade off of a 3rd attack, better SuperDice, and more HP to me seems worth it. (As well as a few other Fighter features like Indomitable, and more ASI/Feat options)

[djreynolds]

Fighter 12/ rogue 8 grants 6 feats/ASI 3 attacks, 4 skills expertise and evasion 1 use of indomitable.

Still very powerful, 4d6 extra SA damage, and precision to ensure it hits.

[Mongobear]

Fighter 12/ rogue 8 grants 6 feats/ASI 3 attacks, 4 skills expertise and evasion 1 use of indomitable.

Still very powerful, 4d6 extra SA damage, and precision to ensure it hits.

That is likely what I am looking at my end game build assuming we reach 20th level. if we begin at 12th level like previously mentioned, I think I will start out Fighter 5/Rogue 7 for Extra Attack and Evasion, then take +1 level in each the next two levels for the ASI/Feats.