percentage to know a language

[Darth Yoda]

Hi guys.
Got a problem that popped up in the last game.
A PC spoke in Giant to a few other PCs. He did it to prevent the paladin from overhearing.But he spoke loudly across a 20x60 foot boat, so even the crew heard.

In Giant he said he wanted to kill the crew and steal the boat. As usual most of the other PCs agreed.

BUT did the 6 CREWMEN understand. I had to throw the boat together on the fly so didnt flesh out the crew.

How I can I tell if the crew understood or not?
They are coming up to an orc trading post where it would be a good place for the boatmen to abandon them as they shop.

How would the pros handle this?

Thanks in advance!!!

Rogue One was a good movie.

[Nifft]

How I can I tell if the crew understood or not?
They are coming up to an orc trading post where it would be a good place for the boatmen to abandon them as they shop.

If these crewmembers & boatmen are used to dealing with Orcs, then they might have had contact with Ogres and other critters who speak Giant.

If orcs get along with ogres & hill giants & such...

Do they, in your setting?


Rogue One was a good movie.

Oklahoma? Ha ha ha ha ha!

[Keltest]

Do you want them to have understood? Then they understood. Do you want them to be surprised? Then theyre surprised. Pick whichever one is more interesting, though at this point, if they shouted loudly across a boat full of the crew, anyone who heard would almost immediately call them out on it.

[OldTrees1]

1) What percentage of the crew would know a 2nd language? I would figure about 1 in 6 would have 12+ Int.
2) How many languages would be available for those crew to learn? I doubt undercommon would be on the list. Count languages of allies twice and traders thrice (languages of allied traders are counted 4 times).
3) Roll some dice.

So with 6 crewmen, a 1 in 6 chance to know another language, and about a 1 in 20 chance for it to be Giant, I would probably roll 1d20 and have a single crewmember understand on a 1.

[Crake]

1) What percentage of the crew would know a 2nd language? I would figure about 1 in 6 would have 12+ Int.
2) How many languages would be available for those crew to learn? I doubt undercommon would be on the list. Count languages of allies twice and traders thrice (languages of allied traders are counted 4 times).
3) Roll some dice.

So with 6 crewmen, a 1 in 6 chance to know another language, and about a 1 in 20 chance for it to be Giant, I would probably roll 1d20 and have a single crewmember understand on a 1.

1 in 6 seems a little high if you ask me. Using the standard array (13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8), they get 2 scores with +1, and two scores with -1. If I had to judge the abilities useful to a sailor I'd say con for avoiding scurvy and other long term ill effects of long sea voyages, which would be equal in usefulness to wis for both survival and their profession check (being able to predict the weather somewhat can be very useful for a sailor). After that, I would rank dex and str for the dex and str skills. Climb, swim, use rope are all common skills one would use on a ship, with the occasional balance thrown in. Finally, int and cha are practically useless to a sailor. Short of the captain having knowledge geography, there's not a single int or cha based skill that is particularly useful to a regular sailor that I can think of off the top of my head.

Sure, maybe 1 in 6 people would have +1 int, but definitely not 1 in 6 sailors.

[Geddy2112]

For random joe blow NPC's, I default that they would rarely if ever have obscure knowledge, languages, or skills.

If there is a chance they do, then roll some dice to determine the probability. I like the d100 for this-tailor it for the population of the world, percentage of people with said language/knowledge/skill, and # of people surveyed.

For real important or prominent NPC's, flesh them out to the level of a PC. This way you know for sure.

[OldTrees1]

1 in 6 seems a little high if you ask me. Using the standard array (13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8), they get 2 scores with +1, and two scores with -1. If I had to judge the abilities useful to a sailor I'd say con for avoiding scurvy and other long term ill effects of long sea voyages, which would be equal in usefulness to wis for both survival and their profession check (being able to predict the weather somewhat can be very useful for a sailor). After that, I would rank dex and str for the dex and str skills. Climb, swim, use rope are all common skills one would use on a ship, with the occasional balance thrown in. Finally, int and cha are practically useless to a sailor. Short of the captain having knowledge geography, there's not a single int or cha based skill that is particularly useful to a regular sailor that I can think of off the top of my head.

Sure, maybe 1 in 6 people would have +1 int, but definitely not 1 in 6 sailors.

Your method, deductive logic from an array, would make cookie cutter npcs. I added variance into the estimation. Although sailors are highly skilled based so Int for skill points might not be out of the question.

PS: 1 in 3 people built from the standard array would have a +1 int at 1st level. It is rather obvious that I was not making a blind estimate.

[Vogie]

Do you want them to have understood? Then they understood. Do you want them to be surprised? Then theyre surprised. Pick whichever one is more interesting, though at this point, if they shouted loudly across a boat full of the crew, anyone who heard would almost immediately call them out on it.

Precisely. Use whichever one tells a better story.

Maybe only one understands, and tells the rest of the crew, and they abandon ship overnight after sabotaging it while the PCs sleep, so they wake up on a sinking ship with nary a crewmember in sight.

Maybe that was plan, and then they have to 6v1 vs the sole PC who is keeping watch on deck.

Maybe they weren't REALLY common crew members, but high level pirates keeping their respective heads down, and now they're going to go on a 6-v-Party deathmatch that the party was not expecting, or is able to defeat. You can even stress they weren't even going to encounter that part of them until that party member decided to run his/her mouth.

[icefractal]

Assuming human sailors -

First off, stats. ~30% of people using the standard array would have an Int bonus, so I'd probably roll:
d6: 1 = none, 2-3 = one sailor, 4-5 = two sailors, 6 = three sailors

I can see the argument that sailors are more physically-oriented, but it's not like people pick their stats for the job they want, they (IC) get the stats randomly. So the question is if people who aren't that physically fit would choose to become sailors (IMO, yes; they may want to travel, it may be the best work available, they may have a friend who joined) and if captains would accept them (also yes; sailors were often in very high demand - see press ganging, shanghai-ing, etc).

Then, we have learning languages via skill points. This is fairly likely for a sailor, and could give them anywhere between 2-6 if they focus on it. If we say the sailors are levels 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, and 3, and half-way inclined to learn languages, that's maybe 4-10 more languages - we'll call it 1d6+3.

Then just roll to see what language they have. I would put the 'common' languages (elven, dwarven, orc, giant, etc) as more probable than the esoteric languages like ignan/celestial/etc.

Yes, you could fiat it depending on what story you have in mind, but sometimes you don't have a pre-existing idea in mind and want to play to see what happens.

[Doctor Awkward]

1 in 6 may be appropriate enough. It depends on the sailors and their situation/

Bonus languages don't always come from a high intelligence. You can also spend 2 skill points to learn a language.
If you have a group of traders that routinely makes profitable deals with monstrous races, it's more likely than not that at least one of them would make an effort to learn the language. The more hit dice they have, the higher the odds. More so with humans, who are more likely than most other races to have skill points to spare.

[lylsyly]

or you can just decide, do you WANT them to understand, or not?

"You are the master architect. If a chart gives you a result that you don't like, throw the book out the window and make your own choices!" World Builders Guidebook, 1996, TSR Inc
"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax Second hand Attribution here (http://www.allenvarney.com/rev_04a.html)

Just a thought

[icefractal]

Bonus languages don't always come from a high intelligence. You can also spend 2 skill points to learn a language.Good point, I forgot about that! That changes things considerably, since learning a language is 1/4 of their skill points in the worst case (Commoner 1), and as little as 1/42nd in the best (Expert 3 w/ Int bonus). I'll update the other post to take that into account.

[Incorrect]

If a group of 6 sailors trade with giants more than 4 times per year, the eldest of the 6 will know Giant language.
If they trade with giants on a weekly basis, 2 sailors will know Giant.

[Stealth Marmot]

Why did the PC speak in Giant anyway?

[Mr Adventurer]

Probably best not to off-hand invalidate a PC's efforts. A better story might be to have one crewman understand, but rather than alerting everyone right away, have him approach the PCs alone when they are all together, and have him try to blackmail them, threatening to tell the Captain and the rest of the crew and having them thrown overboard unless they pay him off (and let him escape unharmed).

[Knight Magenta]

If a crew member did speak giant, the PCs should have gotten a sense motive check to realize that that person overheard them. Maybe he tenses or whips his head around to look at them or something like that.

[John Longarrow]

You could always have the ship greeted by Orc slavers who have been working with this crew for a long time.... :sabine:

[Darth Yoda]

Thanks for the input guys!!

The crew and captain are very respected in their area, being of basically good and fair alignments. The PCs checked before hiring them. I also stated that nothing they did got a real notice from the the crew. The crew kinda ignores them but they are alert. They have been communicating thru bird chirps and hand gestures that so far have stymied the PCs.

When the PC asked loudly in Giant if anybody spoke Giant, I had the PCs roll perception and none noticed any reaction by the crew. So he then stated he wanted to kill the crew and steal the boat.

They do trade with an orc outpost regularly, every two weeks or so, which means they have been exposed to Giant. which is why the problem popped up. If they were true sea pirates then they would not have a chance to know Giant. But these are river traders. Go up river, get supplies to trade with the coastal folk and repeat.
I have decided, with your help, to give each crewman a 1 in 8 chance of understanding Giant, and the Captain and First Mate 1 in 6.

As a side note, one of the girls in our campaign is a notorious cheater. We make her roll her dice out in the open where every one can see the roll. I roll a d8 (or what ever) and the players have to match that number, not the usual hi/low comparison. That keeps players from always rolling higher than average.

Again thanks for the help and Gods help my PCs!!!!

[Darth Yoda]

Stealth Marmot, the PC spoke Giant because the paladin does NOT. It is a way for him to cause trouble with out arousing the paladins ire.

P.S. The paladin has neglected to stop said player from "causing trouble" and has accrued a few "mis-alignment points".

[Keltest]

Stealth Marmot, the PC spoke Giant because the paladin does NOT. It is a way for him to cause trouble with out arousing the paladins ire.

P.S. The paladin has neglected to stop said player from "causing trouble" and has accrued a few "mis-alignment points".

This strikes me as a situation that is going to go all kinds of sideways very fast. The paladin may not know about the plan, but presumably he is going to do something once the takeover starts, that something probably being "side with the crew". There isn't really a winning option here for him.

[Karl Aegis]

You don't need to know a language when somebody randomly shouts, "KILL!".

You just need to know what the word "Kill" is in that language.

The chance of knowing a single word you don't want to hear is higher than the chance of knowing the entire language you don't want to hear.

[martixy]

Somewhere around these parts I saw a very complex language system, which IMO is best boiled down to: Rudimentary, Fluency, Mastery. Some of those guys were probably at Rudimentary.

And of course, what Keltest said. Depends on how you see things playing out in the future, and what that would require to make things interesting.