Gr7mm's Combat Expertise for 5e (PEACH)

[Gr7mm Bobb]

Ok, so I understand that this has already been attempted many times over already. But I'd like to revisit this personally as my playgroup is now taking a more scrutinizing look into my homebrew. The overall goal was to produce a feat for the more tactically minded martial players in the spirit of the feats namesake. I wanted a feat that allowed the player contribute to the team, as well as allow for defensive options to expanded on.

Combat Expertise

Once per turn, you may choose to use the Help action in place of a weapon attack made during your turn, this includes attacks granted from two weapon fighting and the Extra Attack feature.
While you benefit from a Dodge action you also have advantage on checks and saving throws made to resist being grappled, shoved, and disarmed.
While you benefit from the Dodge action and you are damaged by a creature you threaten, you may immediately make an opportunity attack against that creature.
Before you make an attack with a weapon, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you gain 5 temporary hit points. While you are wielding a shield, you gain 10 temporary hit points instead. These hit points may be added to temporary hit points from this feature. These temporary hit points last until the start of your next turn.


Most feats with 4 bullets usually have special conditions or ribbon abilities that can be applied to these. As it stands, the first bullet offers a teamwork option and is very limited in scope in terms of normal combat. The 2nd and 3rd bullets offer a larger boon to the Dodge action, allowing it to better assist the user as well as punish foes for when they do damage the defending player. I made it more of a retributive strike instead of a reward for the opponent missing so the feat would feel more interactive and follow an ideal of risk/reward. And the 4th and final bullet was to offer an option to the player to be defensive while trying to stay alive. It functions numerically similar to the GWF bullet as it still requires the attack to land. It trades out damage dealt with the ability for greater damage received. However, it may require that the feat has specific weapon limitations, but at this point in time I feel that this featbrew could use the scrutiny of my fellow playgrounders.

EDIT: Adjusted the 3rd bullet for shield use and to potentially reduce TWF abuse.

[JNAProductions]

The only issue I see is that the THP stack with themselves. Get Bless or something else to offset the penalty, and you can easily nab 30 THP a turn. (40 on a Fighter, or 50 on a 20th level fighter.)

[Gr7mm Bobb]

The only issue I see is that the THP stack with themselves. Get Bless or something else to offset the penalty, and you can easily nab 30 THP a turn. (40 on a Fighter, or 50 on a 20th level fighter.)

Normally would be an issue, but as a numbers forward calculation, GWF wins out overall if the game is going towards winning by attrition. I did do my best to make sure it did not stack the THP with other THP as well as them dissipating at the beginning of each new turn. The idea was to create a stalwart available option. Most creatures at higher CR's with low AC have a way of making up for it with higher offensive options that can plow through the fighters potential 50 THP or circumvent the idea of HP altogether. I do think that I may need to limit it to certain weapon types, or for the attack to actually deal damage.

[JNAProductions]

Okay, first CR 11 monsters I found-Genies.

Assume TWF Fighter, with +5 (Dex or Str) +4 (Proficiency) -5 (From the feat) and sometimes +1d4 (Bless). For +4 (+5 to +8) to hit. AC of 17 (Studded Leather +Dex).

Dao-AC 18, does around 40 damage a turn if all attacks hit. Without Bless, 17.85% chance of no hits, 38.45% chance of 1, 31.05 chance of 2, 11.15% chance of 3, and 1.5% chance of 4. With Bless, 7.6% chance of none, 27.49% chance of 1, 37.31% chance of 2, 22.51% chance of 3, and 5.09 chance of 4. Dao has a +10 to hit bonus, so hits on a 7 (70% chance of hitting) for average DPR of 28.

That means our Fighter, without Bless, is functionally immune to attacks about 13% of the time (27% with Bless) and takes significantly reduced damage most of the rest of the time.

Genie-AC 17, does around 45 damage a turn if all hit. Without Bless, 12.96% chance of none, 34.56% of 1 or 2, 15.36% chance of 3, 2.56% chance of 4. With Bless, 5.09% chance of none, 22.51% chance of 1, 37.31% chance of 2, 27.49% chance of 3, and 7.6% chance of 4. Genie has a +9 to hit, so hits on an 8 (65% chance of hitting) for an average DPR of 29.25.

That means our Fighter, without Bless, is functionally immune to attacks about 18% of the time (35% with Bless) and takes significantly reduced damage most of the rest of the time.

Efreeti-AC 17, 40 DPR if all hit with a +10. Same as Dao.

Marid-AC 17, 30 DPR at a +10. Holds up even worse than the others.

[Gr7mm Bobb]

Thank you for the informed response. With your presented argument in mind, what other options are available to those creatures? How would these creatures handle a PC who is normally overly healthy? I do see your concern with creatures who normally rely on DPR to be an effective encounter. To address your concerns with 'Fighter Immunity' do you feel that I should limit the THP to 5 a hit, or 10 to 20 a round? I want to make sure I offer a nice tool for defensive styles, but also not cause it to overshadow every other play style.

[JNAProductions]

Thank you for the informed response. With your presented argument in mind, what other options are available to those creatures? How would these creatures handle a PC who is normally overly healthy? I do see your concern with creatures who normally rely on DPR to be an effective encounter. To address your concerns with 'Fighter Immunity' do you feel that I should limit the THP to 5 a hit, or 10 to 20 a round? I want to make sure I offer a nice tool for defensive styles, but also not cause it to overshadow every other play style.

I'm inclined to make it -5 hit/+10 THP once per round-that is, once you hit with a -5 attack, the rest of your attacks are made without the penalty, but grant no THP. A 10 THP buffer, while still damn useful, is probably in line with power of other feats. The only issue, is that it's a little more complicated than I'd like (for instance, it requires rolling your attacks one at a time until one hits).

Edit: I ran a simulation with a level 11 Fighter versus a Genie. Fighter half-killed the Genie, but the Genie also got rather lucky, with three crits to the Fighter's 0 (when the Fighter was making MORE ATTACKS per round!).

Some more math-Genie has an average DPR of 29.25.

Fighter has an average DPR of (0+1.1016+5.8752+8.8128+.8704) 16.66 and average THP of (3.456+6.912+4.608+1.024) 16.

Total that all together, Genie averages 13.25 damage and the Fighter averages 16.66. 8 Turns for the Genie to kill the Fighter, 10 turns for the Fighter to kill the Genie. So on average, the Genie will win, but with only about 20 HP left. (I assume a 50/50 split of initiative winning-though honestly, if I did the actual numbers it'd favor the Fighter.)

[Gr7mm Bobb]

If Genies and the kin were the type to stand in one spot and slug it out, your math would totally show that the fighter with this feat is all sorts of powerful. Why the beings known for being magical would rely on trying to outpunch the punchman is beyond me. You did say they were the first CR11 creature you came to though.

I do have a request if you are still running hypotheticals though, I would like to see how this would play out against creatures who's stat block is more of a set of scary beatstick numbers. For example the Roc and the Horned Devil, both of which are CR11's.

Biggest issue that i am seeing is that the game gets really complex after level 8. I hope you understand where I'm coming from with this though.

[JNAProductions]

I know. It's not a perfect simulation, but they're the first CR 11 monster I found. So while I ignored much of the Genie's abilities, I also ignored a lot of the Fighter's abilities.

Horned Devil (CR 11) versus Fighter (level 11, stats 8/20/16/12/13/10, half-elf, HP 103, Battlemaster with 5d10 Superiority dice, knows Precision Strike, has the TWF Fighting Style)

Fighter will usually win initiative.

Fighter has a +4 to hit, effectively +9.5 for the first five misses, meaning they hit on 14s (35%) or 8.5s (62.5%) for 8.5 damage and 10 THP.

Horned Devil has a +10 to hit, so hits on 7s (70%), dealing 15, 15, and then 10.5 plus 10.5 on a failed DC 17 Con save (succeeds on a 10, 55% chance of saving). This fight is going to be stacked somewhat in favor of the Devil, since any magical healing staunches the bleeding, but the Fighter doesn't have that.

Anyway! For the first round, Fighter deals 21.25 and gains 25 THP.

Devil then deals 21+7.35+3.3075~31.7 damage, for 6.7 damage total.

Next round, fighter deals 5.3125+8.925~14.2 damage and 6.25+10.5=16.75 THP.

Devil does the same damage, 3.3 (This will be added each turn for the infernal bleeding) for 35, or 18.25 damage after THP.

Now, the Fighter will consistently deal 11.9 damage and get 14 THP.

Devil deals 38.3 (24.3 after THP).

Fighter has taken 49.25 damage, Devil has taken 47.35.

Fighter deals 11.9, gets 14 THP.

Devil deals 41.6 (27.6 after THP).

76.85 damage on the Fighter, 59.25 on the Devil.

Fighter deals 11.9, gets 14 THP, and uses Second Wind to heal 5.5+11=16.5 damage.

Devil deals 44.9 (30.9).

91.25 on the Fighter, 71.15 on the Devil.

Fighter now Action Surges, for 7 attacks, dealing 20.825 damage and getting 24.5 THP.

Devil deals 48.2 (23.7) and kills the Fighter.

Fighter deals 91.975 damage to it, half killing it. The only feature left out was Indomitable, which likely would've made no difference.

[Gr7mm Bobb]

Ok, so JNA has posted several scenario's with different resluts for different creatures. My group has also proposed serveral suggestions and raised their own concerns.

Among them is the results of the feat bearer and successful oppurtunity attacks and the resulting THP.

I'm still considering dropping it down to 5 THP/hit. Another suggestion was to gain +2 AC per successful -5 hit.

Coming to a complicated head, but bear with me a sec. What about sticking with JNA's suggestion of 10 THP/round, but every successful -5 attack after that gives the feat user +2 AC/hit after the first?

A middle ground that offers a glancing blows feeling, while still rewarding the PC's continued risk taking the same way GWM does.

[JNAProductions]

Ok, so JNA has posted several scenario's with different resluts for different creatures. My group has also proposed serveral suggestions and raised their own concerns.

Among them is the results of the feat bearer and successful oppurtunity attacks and the resulting THP.

I'm still considering dropping it down to 5 THP/hit. Another suggestion was to gain +2 AC per successful -5 hit.

Coming to a complicated head, but bear with me a sec. What about sticking with JNA's suggestion of 10 THP/round, but every successful -5 attack after that gives the feat user +2 AC/hit after the first?

A middle ground that offers a glancing blows feeling, while still rewarding the PC's continued risk taking the same way GWM does.

I'm not a big fan of that. AC is one of those things that's part of the bounded accuracy system, and Fighters (the most likely to take this feat) can already get pretty good AC. (As can Paladins or Barbarians.)

[Gr7mm Bobb]

I'm not a big fan of that. AC is one of those things that's part of the bounded accuracy system, and Fighters (the most likely to take this feat) can already get pretty good AC. (As can Paladins or Barbarians.)

Messing with the accuracy system doesn't seem like a good idea, most things that boost AC are done as a reaction. Examples being the spell Shield, the Defensive Duelist feat, the reaction perk of the Iron Body discipline (UA mystic), the Lore Bard... the list is extensive and the results are still very much the same.

At the moment I do agree that 10 THP/hit as written was too much. I've altered the OP 3rd bullet to provide 5THP/hit for attacks normally, and 10 THP/hit while wielding a shield. Not perfect, but it feels like a step in the right direction. Later I might limit the -5 option to being available to attacks made during your own turn to deal with potential Opportunity Attack shenanigans.