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View Full Version : Player Help When the Rogue goes solo vs team play



Mooseontheloose
2017-01-09, 06:38 PM
So, I play an Elven Rogue (Assassin) in a 5E campaign - although this problem would be the same in many other systems.

When exploring I often think it could be of great benefit to the party if I would scout ahead, looking for enemies, guards, traps etc. I have higher Stealth and Perception than most others in the party and could probably take out most single enemies (like an orc guarding a camp etc) without alerting any more enemies.
This is near impossible to accomplish in a party with human (no darkvision) Paladins/Fighters (Heavy armour) carrying torches etc.

However, this means that I would naturally take a lot of the focus away from the rest of the party whenever we went exploring and it would quickly turn into a solo adventure for my Rogue, which isn't really fun for anyone.

How would we balance it out, so the party could benefit from my stealth/assassination skills without it turning into a solo exploring adventure?

Any thoughts/ideas/personal experiences are welcome.

I'm planning on discussing this with my DM/Group but would like some input and ideas on how to handle this first.

CharonsHelper
2017-01-09, 06:56 PM
It depends upon the DM. If you just make a single check for stealth-ing then it wouldn't take that long. If he has you take one every 30-50 feet it would.

Koo Rehtorb
2017-01-09, 07:01 PM
Make one stealth check and get him to give you a "scouting report". You can do that in a minute or two.

Ruslan
2017-01-09, 07:04 PM
So, I play an Elven Rogue (Assassin) in a 5E campaign - although this problem would be the same in many other systems.

When exploring I often think it could be of great benefit to the party if I would scout ahead, looking for enemies, guards, traps etc. I have higher Stealth and Perception than most others in the party and could probably take out most single enemies (like an orc guarding a camp etc) without alerting any more enemies.
This is near impossible to accomplish in a party with human (no darkvision) Paladins/Fighters (Heavy armour) carrying torches etc.

However, this means that I would naturally take a lot of the focus away from the rest of the party whenever we went exploring and it would quickly turn into a solo adventure for my Rogue, which isn't really fun for anyone.

How would we balance it out, so the party could benefit from my stealth/assassination skills without it turning into a solo exploring adventure?

Any thoughts/ideas/personal experiences are welcome.

I'm planning on discussing this with my DM/Group but would like some input and ideas on how to handle this first.
Ask the DM to employ group checks for Stealth.

While this is not realistic by and large, it makes for a much more fun play experience, with everyone participating, everyone being relevant (the rogue, of course, somewhat more relevant than others, because you can make your own Stealth check as a Bonus Action, than use your main Action to Help someone else).

Darth Ultron
2017-01-09, 07:53 PM
Well, I'm the DM that hates this whole idea. My most common answer is something like ''your character dies, leave the game and my house''.

There really is no good way to do ''scout ahead'' in a group game. To have the other players sit around for even a couple minutes is wrong.

One way that does work is to run a solo mini game for the player. Have them ''scout ahead'' apart from the group. You can take a whole thirty minutes, scout, and then join the normal game later. I've done this on a weekend, where scout player comes over at 11 am, we game for a half hour, and then they go home and come back for the normal game at 6pm.

RazorChain
2017-01-09, 10:41 PM
It is a good idea to run recon....but the problem is if your group is focusing on dungeon delving then this becomes tiresome and sometimes just plain stupid. Tiresome in the sense that you will be running back and forth telling them what you see and stupid in the sense that I really wouldn't care how high your stealth is, sneaking down and empty hallway is not possible unless the guards are sleeping or looking the other way. In the end if you are going to recon a dungeon then you will eventually fail and you will die before your teammates come to your rescue.

If you are doing a recon in a outdoors while your party is out for a stroll then you have to ask yourself why? If you are in a enemy territory then it might be a good idea to avoid patrols etc. But the risk is still there if you range is the party going to be waiting for your or on the move as well? You might miss each other and screaming out to find eachother is counterproductive. Of course if you are ranging far ahead then you also can be spotted and ambushed by the enemy and your friends aren't there to help you out.


But in my games it is often usual for the stealthiest character to take lead within sight of others in enemy territory or the stealth character scopes out a place before the group moves in to accomplish something.

JoeJ
2017-01-10, 09:03 PM
The key to splitting the party is to make sure that each group has something interesting to do. For a scouting scenario, the main group might, for example, be fortifying a camp or planning an ambush or interrogating a captured enemy or performing some sort of divination. Having some sort of social interaction scene would work well here. The GM then spends a few minutes with each group in turn, ideally setting up a mini-cliffhanger when they're ready to switch focus.

Example:

"Roll your Stealth check rogue… oops, not good enough. The bugbear sees you. It raises its club and roars a challenge." (turning to the rest of the group) "Meanwhile, back at the camp…"

The Creative Campaigning book for 2e AD&D discusses this in more detail.

Alternatively, if the players can do a scene without the GM, such as working out a plan of some kind, or having any kind of in-character discussion, then the GM can simply focus on what the rogue is doing long enough to resolve that.

GungHo
2017-01-11, 09:32 AM
For very quick "on point" scouting, it's a stealth roll and maybe perception checks to see if you noticed anything (with a blind DCs... i.e. I won't directly tell you if you succeeded or failed). The rest of the party gets their own exploration scene while you just roll because we don't "see you" and you're "off screen". If you fail stealth, you were seen, and likely will be intercepted. If you fail perception, you missed something important. If you fail both, you'll be intercepted and you will suffer a surprise round.

For longer "I wanna go on my own adventure", you will likely get a Sierra end screen and I will ask you if you want to restore your game.

Geddy2112
2017-01-11, 10:08 AM
So long as the character who is scouting ahead remains in the scene, then it is alright. What the "scene" is varies on the scenario, and could mean the party is in the same room, or just the same city.
Sneaking ahead to the next room of the dungeon to look for monsters or get into position before the walking tin cans march up is well within the scene.
In an urban setting where the PC's are about town, the sneaky class might wander off to do who knows what while the other party members do whatever. The scene is still "the party members mulling about the town or whatnot" so you are in the clear.

Mechanically, these should only be a quick stealth check or two, and maybe an appropriate supplemental skill. Example: the meeting takes place as expected, and nobody seems to notice you lurking on the roof next door. You see a strange ring on the man speaking with the kingsguard, roll knowledge XXX.
In a dungeon this is-you sneak ahead, nothing happens, you might see X.

However, if the rogue goes into the dungeon solo, or decides to infiltrate the palace and steal the crown jewels solo, this is a different scene and splitting the party. If they split the party and go into a distinctive scene, they probably have to roll a new character...

A good example of how to use stealth but stay in the scene came from a time I was playing a tincan paladin and my friend was playing sneaky mcstealy the heavy crossbow sniping rogue. The details of the quest are irrelevant, but we go into a scenario where me and the platemail fighter and druid(needed as a translator) are going to attempt a negotiation with less than friendly people in a forest. The rogue took our left flank and went stealthy, while we blundered up and did not even try to hide. We managed to negotiate without coming to blows, our rogue and his heavy crossbow 200ft on our left going unnoticed the whole time. He got to do his sneaking, far away from us to be noticed as part of our group, but he was with us the whole time and there was no stealth mini game. Our skills(his stealth and my diplomacy) were synergistic and made for a very memorable encounter.

It is not just stealth sneaky characters going solo. Avoid encounters or scenarios where a single character has to go solo, and if they wander too far off on their own, a T-Rex out of nowhere is well within your right as a DM.