Statting Discworld characters.

[Clopin Silk]

I was just wondering; how would you make the cast of Discworld in 3.5? What class/classes make up Commander Vimes? How about Captain Carrot? Or A villain like Mister Teatime (It's Te-ah-ti-me), or Mister Pin and Mister Tulip?

Honestly, I only have any ideas regarding Vetinari. His INT, WIS, and CHA are clearly all extremely high, given how effortlessly he runs the city and manipulates everybody who walks into his office, but his STR and CON are probably somewhat lower, unless of course he really IS a vampire. His DEX has to be pretty high, as we have a few moments where he moves incredibly fast. As for classes, I'd be guessing a fair few levels of Aristocrat, with some levels in Assassin as well. Alignment? Well, that's a little bit trickier. He's definitely Lawful, but as for the other part? Well, that's a little less clear-cut.

[Castilonium]

Some people have statted out Discworld characters for Pathfinder in this thread (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sq8e?Discworld-on-a-budget) over on Paizo.

[Clopin Silk]

Indeed they did, although it's kind of weird that they gave Vimes a throwing knife, something I don't think he's ever used, rather than a crossbow, something he's genuinely proficient with.

[GAZ]

Vimes is primarily an Urban Ranger. He may have some multi-classing in Rogue for Sneak Attack and/or Barbarian for Rage. His highest stat is probably Wisdom.

Carrot is a Paladin straight up. His highest stat is krisma Charisma. High Strength too.

Angua, Detritus, Colin, and most of the rest of the Watch are fighters. Except for Nobby, who is a Rogue in addition to being an officially certified human being. Cherry Littlebottom may be an Expert.

I would say Vetinari is more Rogue than Aristocrat. His social station doesn't determine his abilities. His abilities determined his social standing. Dude's got formal Assassin training and not-inconsiderable sneaking skill. Intelligence highest ability.

Ridcully and most of the staff of Unseen University are Wizards. Except for Rincewind, who is an Expert.

Granny Weatherwax, Nanny Ogg, Magrat, and the other witches are Druids.

Brutha, Mightily Oats, and other assorted Omnians are Clerics.

Ghenghiz Cohen and the Silver Horde are obviously really high level Barbarians.

Moist Van Lipwig is a Bard. Maybe with a bit of Rogue multi-class.

Lu-Tze and the rest of that sort are Monks.

Death is a unique Outsider of many HDs and Susan Sto Helit an Expert with a damn high LA half-Death template.

Just my opinion, and I'd love to discuss more.

[Doctor Despair]

Lu-Tze can use Time Stop as a Su ability though. Monks never had a toy like that.

Eric was definitely a binder :p

[GAZ]

Lu-Tze can use Time Stop as a Su ability though. Monks never had a toy like that.

It's from his Prestige Class: Master of Deja-Fu

[Sayt]

I'd actually put vimes and the watch as Constable Cavalier (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/archetypes/paizo---cavalier-archetypes/constable-cavalier-archetype)

Vetinari is a middle aged human rogue/assassin, as is Teatime.

Moist Von Lipwig is a rogue with the Master of Disguise (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/master-of-disguise-rogue-archetype) archetype, and/or the rogue archetype I can't find that replaces each SA die with a skill unlock+ 1/2 level to a chosen skill. Bluff and disguise being first choices.

[Arutema]

Cherry Littlebottom may be an Expert.
I'd put her as an PF alchemist. (see: her profession prior to joining the watch.)


Granny Weatherwax, Nanny Ogg, Magrat, and the other witches are Druids.
Not the PF witch class? Though given Granny's focus on "headology", she is possibly a mesmerist instead.


Death is a unique Outsider of many HDs.
The Catrina Psychopomp from PF bestiary 4 almost fits his style. Though he's definitely higher than its CR 5.

In addition, I'd break out the mythic rules for Susan and Lobsang due to their natures and powers.


Moist Von Lipwig is a rogue with the Master of Disguise (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/master-of-disguise-rogue-archetype) archetype, and/or the rogue archetype I can't find that replaces each SA die with a skill unlock+ 1/2 level to a chosen skill. Bluff and disguise being first choices.

Phantom thief (Ultimate Intrigue) is the archetype you're looking for. Due to his need to keep his past and how he knows certain skills secret, I'd almost say Vigilante for him.

[Clopin Silk]

Well, I'm certainly getting some... interesting answers. I guessed Vetinari as an aristocrat because I was under the impression that they had a lot of social tricks, which suited his manipulative nature, as well as the fact that he's clearly lawful, whereas rogues are chaotic. As for Carrot being a Paladin, the idea appeals to me but forces me to ask a question that demonstrates my ignorance; can you have a paladin of something other than a religion? Because as far as I can tell, Carrot's a paladin of either the law, the city, or Mister Vimes. And how about more obscure characters? For example, how about Mr. Tulip, the psychotic, yet incredibly cultured criminal and would-be drug addict? I'd guess barbarian, but he uses everything around him to end people. Is there some Barbarian Prc that allows you to effectively any weapon, improvised weapon, or even your bare fists? And can barbarians even take ranks in knowledge (art)? And what about alignment for these characters? Obviously, Vimes and Carrot are both lawful good, but some of the others seem a little more complicated...

[Grim Reader]

Carrot needs 3 levels of Stoneblessed. He is a dwarf, and all the other dwarves agree that he is a dwarf.

On the old WoTC boards, Rincewind was once held up as perhaps the only fiction example of an Epic Commoner. You can even follow his career in the books from low to high to Epic levels as long as you postulate that Rincewinds way of dealing with challenges, running away, earns experience.

[Kurald Galain]

Carrot, being a dwarf, is a paladin of Tak, i.e. the dwarf deity who doesn't require that we think of him, only that we think.

Although the staff of Unseen University are high-level wizards, Ponder Stibbons strikes me as an artificer. Bear in mind that all of these staff are capable of explosively impressive acts of magic, even if they rarely do so. The Librarian is, of course, under a permanent polymorph effect and has high ranks in profession: librarian.

Granny Weatherwax has maxxed out (including feats, traits, and a MW pointy hat) intimidate and sense motive skills, Havelock Vetinari even more so. In addition to their classes, of course. Vetinari strikes me as a high-level rogue; he's got formal assassin training and a huge amount of skill points. Esme is a witch, of course, using borrowing as a variant on the Animal Skin hex.

It would be interesting to stat out the Oh God of Hangovers, probably as an oracle of himself?

[CasualViking]

Well, I'm certainly getting some... interesting answers. I guessed Vetinari as an aristocrat because I was under the impression that they had a lot of social tricks

They don't. You should probably read the Aristocrat class. Trust me, it's a quick read.


which suited his manipulative nature, as well as the fact that he's clearly lawful, whereas rogues are chaotic. Please, just....don't.

[Kurald Galain]

Angua, Detritus, Colin, and most of the rest of the Watch are fighters. Except for Nobby, who is a Rogue in addition to being an officially certified human being.
The paizo thread hilariously stats Nobby as a halfling with racial heritage: human. And yeah, I agree with statting Cheri as an alchemist. The Igor is also clearly an alchemist (with suitably creepy archetype). Otto van Chriek is probably an expert, vampire template?


Granny Weatherwax, Nanny Ogg, Magrat, and the other witches are Druids.
Magrat is clearly a druid. Gytha strikes me as a witch with a dip in bard.


Lu-Tze and the rest of that sort are Monks.
While most of them are monks, I'd stat Lu-Tze himself as some kind of sorcerer (not sourcerer). Lobsang I'd also call a high-level sorcerer.


I guessed Vetinari as an aristocrat because I was under the impression that they had a lot of social tricks,
They don't. You're thinking of the vigilante class. Rogues aren't bound to any particular alignment.


how about Mr. Tulip, the psychotic, yet incredibly cultured criminal and would-be drug addict? I'd guess barbarian, but he uses everything around him to end people.
There's rogue archetypes for that.


Alignment is a whole different discussion, of course. Making a chart with an archetypical character for each, I'd come up with
Carrot; Magrat Garlick - Lawful good
Samuel Vimes; Gytha Ogg - Neutral good
Moist von Lipwig; Granny Weatherwax - Chaotic good
Havelock Vetinari; Mustrum Ridcully - Lawful neutral
Rincewind; DEATH - True neutral
Genghiz Cohen; Coin the Sourcerer - Chaotic neutral
The Auditors; Lily Weatherwax - Lawful evil
The New Death; Cosmo Lavish - Neutral evil
Jonathan Teatime; the Elf Queen - Chaotic evil

[Telonius]

Rincewind? I'd say Expert/Fortune's Friend/Survivor. Feats would include Dodge, Run, Diehard, and Endurance.

[Allanimal]

So, I just want to know, what's Cut Me Own Throat Dibbler?

[Kurald Galain]

So, I just want to know, what's Cut Me Own Throat Dibbler?

Low-level expert, chaotic neutral. He's not particularly good at anything, but very tenacious.

[Eldan]

Vimes is primarily an Urban Ranger. He may have some multi-classing in Rogue for Sneak Attack and/or Barbarian for Rage. His highest stat is probably Wisdom.


In the end, he either takes a level in binder or the relevant feats, binding a vestige that gives darkvision.

Now, while this is starting a risky topic, Lu Tze is an epic level Diamond Mind swordsage.

[Nasak]

I'd put Cut-Me-Own-Throat Dribble as a bard, with maxed out Perform (Marketing)

[Clopin Silk]

Seriously? Aristocrats are no good at social stuff, literally the only thing real-world nobility were all expected to be competent in? Also, I have to strongly disagree with the idea of Vimes being Neutral Good. Pretty sure the commander of the city watch, a man willing to arrest dragons, vampires, entire armies and his boss would have to be 'lawful', even if he does occasionally cheat a little. But heck, let's branch out a little, too; how's about Detritus' crossbow, the Piecemaker? How would you make that insane weapon work in-game?

[InvisibleBison]

But heck, let's branch out a little, too; how's about Detritus' crossbow, the Piecemaker? How would you make that insane weapon work in-game?

A big heap of fire and piercing damage in a fairly long cone. Exact numbers should be calibrated to your chosen power level.

[Sayt]

Throwing darts at the wall, I'd say that it's a 60 ft cone throwing out 5d8? Otherwise uses the rules for a ballista ie scorpion.

Edit: and on Vimes, I agree that he's Lawful Good to the core

[Afgncaap5]

Yeah, Vimes is Lawful Good, just don't say it to his face. Carrot is also Lawful Good, though. They're just played by competent roleplayers at a table who know there are different ways to do that.

If we can use 3.5 material, I'd almost argue that Carrot has a weird level or template in addition to everything else he's got going. Maybe Human Paragon.

Twoflower is a level 5 Expert with Skill Focus in both Profession (Tourist) and Profession (Insurance Salesman).

Rincewind is clearly a wizard who's using Spheres of Power with the *massive* drawback of "The First Spell", a magical tradition that scares nearly all other magical capability out of his head. He has one or two cantrips that he needs to pass incredible checks to use, and the first spell itself. The benefit is that the drawback is significnt enough that he has ample spellpoints to really make it work if it's needed (and then only if the spell wants to be needed, maybe.) The rest of his feats are invested in Luck Feats, Run, Endurance, and the d20 Adventure! 3rd party feat "Death Defiance."

[Sayt]

Yeah, Carrot is Lawful Good because it never occured otherwise. Vimes is begrudgingly and angrily Lawful Good because people are ****.

[Kurald Galain]

Seriously? Aristocrats are no good at social stuff, literally the only thing real-world nobility were all expected to be competent in?
They can spend skill points just like everybody else. Aristocrat is meant to be a "class that does nothing well", especially for NPCs. It's one of 3E's more baffling design decisions, really. Nobles that are competent are expected to have (e.g.) the fighter or rogue class instead.



Rincewind is clearly a wizard who's using Spheres of Power with the *massive* drawback of "The First Spell", a magical tradition that scares nearly all other magical capability out of his head.
Wizzard, not wizard. Also, he loses the Octavo spell during The Light Fantastic. And /still/ has no magical capability to speak of.

Don't forget that he has a patron: The Lady.

[Afgncaap5]

They can spend skill points just like everybody else. Aristocrat is meant to be a "class that does nothing well", especially for NPCs. It's one of 3E's more baffling design decisions, really. Nobles that are competent are expected to have (e.g.) the fighter or rogue class instead.


Wizzard, not wizard. Also, he loses the Octavo spell during The Light Fantastic. And /still/ has no magical capability to speak of.

Don't forget that he has a patron: The Lady.

True, though I doubt he's got time to learn magic now that he's a professor at a university that teaches it.

[GAZ]

I'd put her as an PF alchemist. (see: her profession prior to joining the watch.)


Not the PF witch class? Though given Granny's focus on "headology", she is possibly a mesmerist instead.


The Catrina Psychopomp from PF bestiary 4 almost fits his style. Though he's definitely higher than its CR 5.

In addition, I'd break out the mythic rules for Susan and Lobsang due to their natures and powers.



Phantom thief (Ultimate Intrigue) is the archetype you're looking for. Due to his need to keep his past and how he knows certain skills secret, I'd almost say Vigilante for him.


Two reasons I didn't use any PF classes when I made my post. First, I've never even read never mind played Pathfinder and second the OP said 3.5.




Twoflower is a level 5 Expert with Skill Focus in both Profession (Tourist) and Profession (Insurance Salesman).



Twoflower isn't an Expert, he's just a Commoner.




Don't forget that he has a patron: The Lady.

Chosen of ______ template it is!

[Barbarian Horde]

How would you stat death who decided to go on vacation as a cook? I know this happened in one of the books.

[Doctor Despair]

I definitely think he has some sort of intimidating aura. I'd almost think it works like a refluffed unseeley fey "Winters Chill". He also definitely had access to haste seemingly at will. Apart from that and possibly some sort of truesight, he didn't do much else than cook iirc.

[Kurald Galain]

How would you stat death who decided to go on vacation as a cook? I know this happened in one of the books.

Pretty straightfoward, he has skill ranks in profession (cook).

Other than that, he is a unique and very powerful anthropomorphic personification, which is akin to a major deity (in D&D terms; actual Discworld gods act much less like D&D deities).

[Afgncaap5]

Twoflower isn't an Expert, he's just a Commoner.

I dunno, I could see the argument going either way. My inclination is to lean toward Expert because he's an incredibly persuasive fellow (handy for an insurance salesman) and Diplomacy isn't on the Commoner skill list while it can easily be on the Expert skill list if it's helpful for their profession (or even if whoever's playing the character just likes the idea of having it.) While it's possible that his camera might have some unknown ability to assist with persuasions, I don't know if I'd rate that as much more than a masterwork tool that grants a bonus.

One other notable fact would be relative wealth. I can't find info on starting wealth for NPC classes in Pathfinder (it's almost like they don't want us to play these things...) but in the 3.5 DMG a Commoner starts with 5d4 gp worth of equipment, while an Expert starts with 3d4 x 10 gp worth of equipment. Twoflower seems to have more than just 5d4 gold.

Though in fairness, he also seems to have more than 3d4 x 10 gold. And his gold is worth a lot more than other people's gold. So starting wealth might not really be a fair guideline for measuring anything (lousy Rich Parents trait, throwing off all the math...)

[Kurald Galain]

Twoflower isn't an Expert, he's just a Commoner.
No, he's an expert. Specifically, an insurance salesman, and wildly successful at that. He is so successful that he can afford The Luggage (which is expensive even by Agatean standards) and is the first Discworldean ever to afford a foreign holiday as a tourist.

So that makes him a mid-level expert - with admittedly a very low wisdom score (he presumably uses "craft: legal documents" instead of "profession: insurance salesman").

[Eldan]

I thought he mentioned that he got the Luggage in a disappearing magic shop for cheap.