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View Full Version : DM Help What's a Good System for Gritty WW2 Fantasy?



Steel Mirror
2017-01-10, 06:08 PM
http://assets.cdn.moviepilot.de/files/161866d913090040c389e76b065990c21b59c646d532cd150c afefad2b40/limit/960/600/jakub-rozalski-1920-secret-facility-s.jpghttp://mtdata.ru/u24/photo4050/20368510050-0/original.jpg

It's 1937, and the war in Eastern Europe has been grinding along for the last decade. Mechanical war machines roam the land. Soldiers from the Reich clash with units from the Soviet Union and the Allied militaries across a thousand fractured fronts in a chaotic mess. Werewolf packs, half-dead banshee, and odder abominations roam the forests and the blasted wastes of no-man's land, preying on the dying and those foolish enough to venture out without protection. Life for the soldiers at the front is hell. Life for the civilians who are supposed to be living there is tougher.

That's the basic concept for a game which I'm planning on running soon, inspired by the works of Jakub Rozalski (https://www.artstation.com/artist/jakubrozalski)'s amazing art for the strategy board game Scythe (http://stonemaiergames.com/games/scythe/). I'm mixing a bit of The Golden Compass (https://www.amazon.com/Golden-Compass-His-Dark-Materials/dp/0440418321), Star Wars Rogue One, and Stormdancer (https://www.amazon.com/Stormdancer-Lotus-War-Book-One/dp/B00C4YUBVS) into the setting as well. It's meant to be a gritty game where death is a real possibility and the odds are stacked against the players, but adventure and heroism are still possible in defiance of a world gone mad.

I have a problem though: I have no idea what system to use! :smalleek: My usual go-to, Fate, seems a bit too freeform and High Concept for this game. Wounds don't really feel as dangerous in Fate, supplies don't need to be tracked like you would expect someone at the front who might kill for a tin of peaches would track them. You don't really count bullets or worry about the individual state of your weapon in Fate, and I want that to be an aspect of this game.

High fantasy games like D&D and Savage Worlds are also a bit higher on the fantasy adventure and lower on the grit and mud than I'd like. I'm considering Rogue Trader, but honestly I really don't like the rules that much. I prefer a system that is much more lightweight, much less work for both players and PCs, and a lot fewer tables to consult and arcane build paths to manage.

So, can anyone in the Playground help a fellow GM out? Which system would you use to run this game? What systems out there are lightweight but also gritty, can run guns and mechs and werewolves but also feel like you're sucking mud in the trenches of an endless war in Eastern Europe? I appreciate any suggestions you have!

LongVin
2017-01-10, 07:03 PM
You might want to take a look at Weird War 2. That's built around WW2 with all sorts of supernatural elements thrown in.

Blackhawk748
2017-01-10, 07:12 PM
You might want to take a look at Weird War 2. That's built around WW2 with all sorts of supernatural elements thrown in.

Yup Savage Worlds has this and its great.

TheTeaMustFlow
2017-01-10, 07:33 PM
Thirding the Weird War 2 suggestion, and also throwing a hat in the ring for D20 Modern (mostly Urban Arcana, but there's also stuff you could take from other bits like Dark Matter, Past, and maybe Future for mechs and such). But, uh...

It's 1937, and the war in Eastern Europe has been grinding along for the last decade. Mechanical war machines roam the land. Soldiers from the Reich
Nazis in 1927? Seems legit...
Or is this a surviving Kaiserreich we're talking about here?

Steel Mirror
2017-01-10, 07:49 PM
Nazis in 1927? Seems legit...
Or is this a surviving Kaiserreich we're talking about here?
Yeah, It's an alternate history where WW1 never ended (and was very, very different). I included the WW2 bit in the title because it fits the tech level better, but this isn't actually the same conflict. :smallsmile: Tonewise I'm basically fusing WW1 and WW2, plus mecha and such, so that I can have weird tech and combined arms invasions but also keep a few things like trench warfare and long, grinding conflicts over useless real estate which characterized the first one.

I'm looking at Weird War, originally I was hesitant on Savage Worlds because it never struck me as particularly gritty. It seems more cinematic and pulpy than particularly grinding or deadly, but maybe I'm wrong about that. At the very least, it was designed with the proper era in mind, so that's a big plus!

Blackhawk748
2017-01-10, 09:51 PM
While it is more cinematic in its mindset, its really easy for it to be gritty. I mean Savage Worlds does Deadlands and thats a horror game, with very few rules changes. Really its a mater of how you describe the scene, as PC arent significantly more durable than NPCs.

RazorChain
2017-01-10, 11:20 PM
You want grit where you can fit all elements within single game system. Gurps does this but unfortunately it's not rules light.

But it is deadly and gritty.

Mr Beer
2017-01-11, 12:12 AM
I'd definitely use GURPS for this but yeah, not lightweight and would require significant work to decide what options you're using.

Fri
2017-01-11, 01:37 AM
Maybe you can somehow refluff Low Fantasy Gaming (https://lowfantasygaming.com/)?

I haven't actually tried it, but I like what I read. It's kinda has the combination of simplified dnd rules, grittiness, deadly but not too deadly, and rules to actually do awesome and heroic stuffs for even the most mundane characters, that I really like. Haven't personally tried it though.

hifidelity2
2017-01-11, 04:56 AM
I'd definitely use GURPS for this but yeah, not lightweight and would require significant work to decide what options you're using.

I agree - however you can start "simple" and slowly add more of the nuanced rules as you and the PCs get a better understanding of the system

Mutazoia
2017-01-11, 05:09 AM
You may also want to take a gander at Iron Kingdoms (http://privateerpress.com/iron-kingdoms). It's a bit like the bastard love child of steampunk and shadowrun, and runs on the D20 system, so there will be less of a learning curve for the rules. (Note: The 2k13 version has been converted to the D6 system.)

Berenger
2017-01-11, 06:39 AM
Maybe you can somehow refluff Low Fantasy Gaming (https://lowfantasygaming.com/)?

I haven't actually tried it, but I like what I read. It's kinda has the combination of simplified dnd rules, grittiness, deadly but not too deadly, and rules to actually do awesome and heroic stuffs for even the most mundane characters, that I really like. Haven't personally tried it though.

Refluffing LFG worked for me for not-too-serious Sci-Fi. Crossbows that didn't need reloading = blaster pistols / rifles, magic = psy, changes and addition of a few skills to cover the operation of horses = hoverbikes and ships = starships, gold pieces = centicreds. Simplified rules for starships (and, hypothetically, mechas) as well als armor and weapon qualities were lifted from d20 Modern / d20 Future. Added quirky malfunctioning astrogation software (https://abload.de/img/theonlystarmapyouwilljblxg.png) (map not made by me) to give the player an idea of the setting, voilą. Random encounter table was kept, so there were a lot of space hydras and ion storms and suspicious merchant ships with broken engines sending distress signals and such.

GungHo
2017-01-11, 09:57 AM
Godlike. Tweak the powers way down.

GungHo
2017-01-11, 10:15 AM
Godlike. Tweak the powers down a bit.

daniel_ream
2017-01-11, 06:49 PM
I was about to suggest Godlike, but pick up the Wild Talents book (I think you can get the digest cheap, like $10 or so) for rules on building battlesuits/wardroids etc.

Godlike/Wild Talent/ORE is about as fast as Savage Worlds but much deadlier. You'll lose PCs. Be aware of that and be ready to make up new ones quickly (which fortunately Godlike is good at). Only down side is Godlike/WT is effects-based point buy, but if you ignore most of the costs and build rules and just wing it you're fine.

Steel Mirror
2017-01-12, 02:01 PM
You want grit where you can fit all elements within single game system. Gurps does this but unfortunately it's not rules light.

But it is deadly and gritty.Yeah GURPS is already off the table unfortunately for being a bit too involved, but if I and my players had more time to spend on this one it would be a great choice. I already agonized a bit about whether to give it a shot anyway, but unfortunately I and my friends just don't have enough time to do it justice. Thanks, though!


Maybe you can somehow refluff Low Fantasy Gaming (https://lowfantasygaming.com/)?

I haven't actually tried it, but I like what I read. It's kinda has the combination of simplified dnd rules, grittiness, deadly but not too deadly, and rules to actually do awesome and heroic stuffs for even the most mundane characters, that I really like. Haven't personally tried it though.I like the look of LFG! I think it would take a bit too much homebrewing to make it work for mechs and guns and mustard gas attacks, but I'll definitely bookmark it for future use in a fantasy game.


You may also want to take a gander at Iron Kingdoms (http://privateerpress.com/iron-kingdoms). It's a bit like the bastard love child of steampunk and shadowrun, and runs on the D20 system, so there will be less of a learning curve for the rules. (Note: The 2k13 version has been converted to the D6 system.)I'll take a look! I'll have to find someone with a copy or a store where I can flip through it.


I was about to suggest Godlike, but pick up the Wild Talents book (I think you can get the digest cheap, like $10 or so) for rules on building battlesuits/wardroids etc.

Godlike/Wild Talent/ORE is about as fast as Savage Worlds but much deadlier. You'll lose PCs. Be aware of that and be ready to make up new ones quickly (which fortunately Godlike is good at). Only down side is Godlike/WT is effects-based point buy, but if you ignore most of the costs and build rules and just wing it you're fine.I've never looked at Godlike before, but now that I've read up a bit on it I'm interested whether or not I end up using it for the game. Thanks! I bought a copy and will be perusing it once I've got some time away from other projects, it looks like it will be interesting one way or another.

Mutazoia
2017-01-13, 01:41 AM
I'll take a look! I'll have to find someone with a copy or a store where I can flip through it.

I usually recommend clicking over to Scribd.com (https://www.scribd.com/search?page=1&content_type=documents&query=Iron%20Kingdoms). You can find a lot of material there that you can preview before deciding to purchase. Some stuff is free, some stuff you pay for, some stuff you "trade" by uploading something else.

Steel Mirror
2017-01-19, 05:22 PM
I just wanted to say Thank You to everyone who made a recommendation. I bought a copy of Savage Worlds and did some reading on the other suggestions as well, and I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up going with Savage Worlds. It's a lot more rules-lite than I remember from when I last played it, and mixing it with a little bit of inspiration from Fate mechanics should serve quite nicely. Thanks again!

Now to figure out how to run the giant robots....

Knaight
2017-01-19, 08:30 PM
It sounds like you're covered, but it would still be worth taking a look at Remnants (http://www.remnantsrpg.com/).

Psikerlord
2017-01-20, 06:31 PM
Refluffing LFG worked for me for not-too-serious Sci-Fi. Crossbows that didn't need reloading = blaster pistols / rifles, magic = psy, changes and addition of a few skills to cover the operation of horses = hoverbikes and ships = starships, gold pieces = centicreds. Simplified rules for starships (and, hypothetically, mechas) as well als armor and weapon qualities were lifted from d20 Modern / d20 Future. Added quirky malfunctioning astrogation software (https://abload.de/img/theonlystarmapyouwilljblxg.png) (map not made by me) to give the player an idea of the setting, voilą. Random encounter table was kept, so there were a lot of space hydras and ion storms and suspicious merchant ships with broken engines sending distress signals and such.

That sounds totally cool, wish I'd played in that game

Steel Mirror
2017-01-20, 08:19 PM
It sounds like you're covered, but it would still be worth taking a look at Remnants (http://www.remnantsrpg.com/).
That looks really cool, thanks for putting me onto that! My group loves big anime robot action and haven't had a go-to system to use for it ever since we soured on the fanmade Adeptus Evangelion ruleset, and I could see us getting some serious use out of this. My heartfelt thanks.

As to Savage Worlds, I was liking it up until I read the chapter on damage and such. I have to admit, I'm really not a big fan of losing turns and spirals of death.

On the other hand, I recalled that the Cortex system and the Serenity RPG had a dice system which SW reminded me of. I went back and dug up my book, and I actually think the basic rules might suit me surprisingly well. I'm gonna have to houserule a couple things like action economy and then massage the vehicle rules to allow mecha, but that's looking to be more and more my preference for this game. Still, thank you guys for sharing your thoughts, and if nothing else I've got a stack of intriguing systems for future games which I'm dying to give a shot!