Is 18 dex, 18 str, 7 con, 18 int, 7 wis, 7 cha a viable build?What body type is that?

[Zhentarim]

Is 18 dex, 18 str, 7 con, 18 int, 7 wis, 7 cha a viable build? What body type is that? What personality is that? Is archery a good choice for this character?

Too min-maxed?

[hamishspence]

Sounds a bit like a cross between a bodybuilder and a gymnast or an archer.

"Dangerously low body fat" could account for the low constitution - the character could look both muscled and emaciated.

[Kaje]

Sickly nerdy bodybuilder.

[OldTrees1]

Sounds a bit too minmaxed to me. While some humans might end up with similar stats, the results are unbalanced enough that I would question both their physique and their mental health.

Str 18, Dex 18, Con 7 is someone at the human pinnacle of muscle development, strength, and flexibility, but also quite frail. This begs the question how is their body still so buff despite their poor health and why is their body not cannibalizing their muscles at all to better boost the rest of their health.

Int 18, Wis 7, Cha 7 is someone with lots of knowledge but severely handicapped in other areas. Their ability to function in society is questioned despite not being ruled out.


Consider something more like 16/16/11/16/11/11 instead?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Looks like a candidate for necropolitan with Faerie Mysteries Initiate, to me.

It's probably someone with rather severe autism who has recently contracted a serious autoimmune disorder and is being ravaged by it.

[lylsyly]

Sickly nerdy bodybuilder.


Looks like a candidate for necropolitan with Faerie Mysteries Initiate, to me.

It's probably someone with rather severe autism who has recently contracted a serious autoimmune disorder and is being ravaged by it.

maxi sorta ninja'd me :smallbiggrin:

a lot of NFL players could fit that (if the got really sick, ie. cancer or whatever. so your badd-*** fighter came down with something and just couldn't cut it anymore.

Seriously, I would ask for a reroll or some other relief. wis and cha, meh, who cares, you can build around that, but CON?

Constitution is a vital part of early survivability for any character.

just my 2 coppers, YMMV

[TheTeaMustFlow]

From a purely mechanical standpoint (ignoring the question of how you would represent the rather odd physical stats), it's certainly very questionable. Dumping Constitution alone is emphatically not a thing most characters should do - even if you do have Faerie Mysteries Initiate (which, incidentally, I have never seen allowed in an actual game :smallfrown:), big penalties to Fort saves are hardly conducive to long term survival.

The low Wisdom presents similar problems, albeit somewhat less severe (Will saves are generally easier to protect from using spells and items, in my experience - a 4000gp item of continuous Protection from Evil alone should keep the worst off). The low Charisma on the other hand, while still somewhat problematic, is entirely workable - just shut up.

Overall though, I'd recommend taking a more balanced statline if possible - if nothing else, getting rid of the con penalty. If we could know what kind of character you're making, and what rules you're making them by that would be very helpful.

[Steven]

Garren felt the familiar wheezing as he took slow breaths, sighting along the cloth yard of arrow at the orc standing guard at the entrance of the cave.
Ever since he had caught the lung fever as a youth he had struggled to breath even though his hours of bow work had left him with broad shoulders and strong arms.
"How did I let myself get talked into this?" Garren sub-vocalized. He knew it was a bad idea to try and sneak into the orcs hold, but as always his objections had been failed to be heard in the discussion around with his companions. Belda's clear voice had captured everyone as it always did and her promises of glory and treasure had slowly eased Garren's logical doubts about numbers, narrow tunnels, and darkness.

Occupied with his thoughts, he never heard the clumsy tread of the orc and it's blade slipped between his ribs before Garren had a chance to register the hand around his throat. Blood filled his weak lungs quickly and it was only moments before his body collapsed to the ground, sightless eyes gazing to the sky...

So yeah. Totally workable so long as you don't get hit.

I tend to treat low charisma as lack of force of personality rather than physical ugliness as it makes for more interesting characters. Hence Garren's inability to get his perfectly valid points across to the party, especially when the bard was arguing eloquently against him. The lack of wisdom also means he's easier to convince of things, and that he's unaware of the world around him.
Finally, people who use long bows tend to be fairly strong because those things are hard to pull, so to have a con so low I figured some kind of lung damage could represent the inability to run long distances and because lack of breath could make it harder for him to get oxygen, blood loss could be more deadly for our unfortunate archer. So no cardio exercise but he can cope with pulling a bow day in and day out so long as he takes his time.

That would be my take on it anyway.

[Zhentarim]

There is this mechanical thing I would like to do with slayer (sniper) by the time I hit level 10, and it takes high str, high dex, and high int to pull off. Basically, I hide in the shadows, then, kapow, assassinate whatever target we have...but the DC to fort save the insta-kill is INT based, thus to have any reliability with it, one must have high int. Also, since I am building from level one, my attack method is highly focused, highly powerful, ranged attacks, so high str is needed for damage and high dex is needed for accuracy.

[Cruiser1]

Is 18 dex, 18 str, 7 con, 18 int, 7 wis, 7 cha a viable build? What body type is that? What personality is that?
This looks like the body and personality of a robot, or in D&D terms a construct. The construct is very strong with its metal body, and agile with its computer controlled reflexes, but its machinery is easy to damage. Similarly, the construct is very intelligent in a computer-like manner, but not very street smart or wise in the ways of the world or in social interaction. Picture something similar to the android Data from Star Trek.

[Malroth]

If this is point buy drop the Str to 15 and bump it to 16 with your first lv up point, Slayers can get a lot of damage that isn't Str dependant and DR isn't as big of a deal thanks to clustered shots. Also concider a Vivisectionist Alchemist Dip because Mutagen Rocks

[Zhentarim]

If this is point buy drop the Str to 15 and bump it to 16 with your first lv up point, Slayers can get a lot of damage that isn't Str dependant and DR isn't as big of a deal thanks to clustered shots. Also concider a Vivisectionist Alchemist Dip because Mutagen Rocks

25 point buy, yes. When should I take the alchemist dip, and how would I justify it in the middle of a demon-fighting campaign? All of this game's enemies will be at least 2 steps away from lawful good.

[Yogibear41]

Good stats for an undead dusk blade :smallsmile:

I'd say it would be pretty difficult to have an 18 str and a 7 constitution, really its hard to have an 18 str and an 18 dex, because added bulk can reduce your mobility, although strength is both a product of muscle size and neuro-muscular function, research use to point to having increased neuromuscular adaptation early on in training, which then petered out, but new research is actually starting to show that that might not actually be the case. To make a long story short its potentially possible to get alot stronger without actually increasing your muscle mass much at all, although genetics play a huge factor in this. Generally speaking if you are in bad enough shape to have a 7 constitution you are going to be significantly weaker, barring some sort of genetic phenomenon.


IMO Dnd Constitution really covers to many things to be accurate to life, for example it covers endurance, hit points or vitality, ability to resist disease/poison/other things. In all actuality a big strong beefy guy is likely to have more "real life" hit points or be able to take more punishment, as well as being more resistant to disease, but if you put him on a treadmill hes not going to be able to keep up with the 125 pound guy with a 11 strength who is built to be a runner. You don't see sumo wrestlers and lineman running many marathons, but in some ways they have sky high constitution by DND standards.

[P.F.]

Is 18 dex, 18 str, 7 con, 18 int, 7 wis, 7 cha a viable build?

Yes. Is it an advisable build? I would have to advise a higher Con at the expense of one of the other three. Also low wisdom isn't great, but in the long run perhaps the benefits will outweigh the -2 to Will saves.


What body type is that?

Athletic, but with an invisible chronic health condition. Obviously one that doesn't inhibit short bursts of intense activity. I'd go with something intestinal that could be intermittently debilitating. Ulcerative colitis, Crohn's disease, irritable bowel syndrome are all good choices. Casting remove disease will provide short-term relief, but the problem, being constitutional in nature, will recur at a later time.


What personality is that?

Shy, bookish, and naive. Or a brash, obnoxious know-it-all. Possibly the former in public and the latter in a small group. You decide.


Is archery a good choice for this character?

Sure, why not?


Too min-maxed?

Yes.

[Sam K]

As far as the physical stats, I can think of two approaches:

1. 6'6, 250lbs of pure, fit and flexible muscle (if human, adjust for race), with all the health problems that comes from being too large. Your back and joints are under incredible presure because they aren't designed to hold up that weight. Essentially, you're like Brock Lessnar from his UFC days (if you're into combat sports): fit, fast giant that has problems taking a punch. Or some NFL players: you can perform extreme physical feats, but you've trained for very short bursts of performance. 45 seconds of play at peak performance, a few minutes of rest. And your body will likely break before you're 35.

2. Atheltic prodigy that has to maintain a very exact balance of food and training. You have basically no fault tolerance in your body: you're constantly pushing yourself to the limit, which means you're very vulnerable to disease and injury (your body is struggling just to keep up with what you're putting it through, there's no more to give if it has to deal with damage).

As for mental, genius with little common sense or ability to relate to others. Could be arrogant and self absorbed, or shy and inexperienced in dealing with the real world.

Put these together, I get some kind of scholar-athlete. In modern society, you'd have aced all exams, and been able to chose between athelethic and academic scholarships to all the ivy league collages. But you'd either be a typical jock (brash, arrogant and full of yourself) but with brains, or so focused on your pursuits that you're unable or uninterested in relating to anyone not on your level.

Keep in mind, 7 is a -2 penalty. Despite what some people say, that's not cancer, autism or total cluelessness. It means you bruise easily, don't catch suble meanings, and tend not to get along well with others. +-2 is still within the normal range. Con 7 could be a smoker with a desk job and no active hobbies.

[Mordaedil]

Why aren't you rolling stats instead?

[hamishspence]

Keep in mind, 7 is a -2 penalty. Despite what some people say, that's not cancer, autism or total cluelessness. It means you bruise easily, don't catch suble meanings, and tend not to get along well with others. +-2 is still within the normal range. Con 7 could be a smoker with a desk job and no active hobbies.

Yup - d20 Call of Cthulhu had real world equivalents for the various stat levels.

18 Int is "Genius"
6-7 Wis is "foolhardy"
8-9 Cha is "shy"
6-7 Con is "puny"
4-5 Con is "frail"
Str 18-19 is "olympic athlete"
Dex 17-18 is "circus acrobat"

So - a physique like a gymnast, with a bit of extra muscle, might fit.

D20 Modern described the various mental stat combinations - high Int low Wis Low Cha, was described as "always putting their foot in their mouth".

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Imagine if Hermione Granger took tons of magical steroids but still kept up with her muggle yoga.

[OldTrees1]

Imagine if Hermione Granger took tons of magical steroids but still kept up with her muggle yoga.

Wouldn't magical steroids and muggle yoga tend to improve or at least maintain her Constitution?

Actually, between having dentists for parents, benefiting from the medical care of both worlds, and being fit enough to go on several adventures, I would not ascribe Hermione with low Constitution before further augmentation.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Wouldn't magical steroids and muggle yoga tend to improve or at least maintain her Constitution?

Actually, between having dentists for parents, benefiting from the medical care of both worlds, and being fit enough to go on several adventures, I would not ascribe Hermione with low Constitution before further augmentation.Then mix the magical steroids with radioactive waste...

...which doesn't turn her into The Hulk.

[OldTrees1]

Then mix the magical steroids with radioactive waste...

...which doesn't turn her into The Hulk.

Oh yeah, radiation poisoning would bring down that constitution.

[Mordaedil]

25 point buy, yes. When should I take the alchemist dip, and how would I justify it in the middle of a demon-fighting campaign? All of this game's enemies will be at least 2 steps away from lawful good.

This isn't 25 point buy. 25 point buy can't get you 18 in three stats. How did you arrive at this?

[Eladrinblade]

It's an autistic olympic gymnast. Viable for a rogue with keen intellect.

[hamishspence]

It's an autistic olympic gymnast. Viable for a rogue with keen intellect.



Keep in mind, 7 is a -2 penalty. Despite what some people say, that's not cancer, autism or total cluelessness. It means you bruise easily, don't catch suble meanings, and tend not to get along well with others. +-2 is still within the normal range. Con 7 could be a smoker with a desk job and no active hobbies.



It's worth keeping in mind that NPC creation may tend to involve "Arrays" rather than rolls. If so, 7 or less would be much rarer than probabilities for "everyone rolls stats" would indicate - with 8 being the minimum stat for the vast majority of human NPCs.

[Jay R]

Mentally, it's a Sheldon Cooper type nerd - a very clever D&D player without much common sense and pretty unpopular.

Physically, it's a boxer with a glass jaw.

Tactically, it's a mistake. Con is not really a viable dump stat for any class.

[Zhentarim]

This isn't 25 point buy. 25 point buy can't get you 18 in three stats. How did you arrive at this?

dual talented human

[denthor]

7 con worked muscles at a young age shorter than average eats wrong soups when he needs protein.

7 wisdom headstrong I to intelligent . But gives money away thinking others will pay it back falls for over complicated schemes.

7 cha nose constantly running never bathes has bad table manners is always right and always frustrated because he should be winning. Does but only in battle not in a tavern augment.

[bean illus]

It's probably someone with rather severe autism who has recently contracted a serious autoimmune disorder and is being ravaged by it.

I see someone large with a heart disorder. They train to keep as healthy as possible, and would be truly exceptional if not for their heart condition. They can only exert themselves in short burst, and are susceptible to poison and disease because of the weak heart. Perhaps hemophiliac also to make up for the DANGEROUSLY LOW HP.

The Int Wis Cha thing is easy to explain, also. The malady (in utero?) that cause his tragic condition also caused a sort of autistic savant syndrome. He can memorize words at a glance, and languages and calculations are simple, but he can barely remember to check what time it is or change his clothes. All sorts of temptations and addictions avail upon him, and he often makes the worst choice whenever discretion is needed.

Honestly, the only reason to take this character would be RP, and only if your DM and PCs agree.

Much smarter would be something like:
14, 15, 10, - 16, 10, 6 . . .Maybe. Add level bonus to Dex for both hit and AC. Str is the easiest to boost, iirc, and Wis is the easiest to avoid (by being a sniper).

[Jormengand]

Reading these responses as someone with definite autism, probable positive wisdom modifier and likely nonnegative charisma modifier is slightly cringeworthy. Please stop the "Low WIS/CHA=autism" meme.

[OldTrees1]

Reading these responses as someone with definite autism, probable positive wisdom modifier and likely nonnegative charisma modifier is slightly cringeworthy. Please stop the "Low WIS/CHA=autism" meme.

Third'd

Using something that is commonly poorly misunderstood as a metaphor for describing something else is just a bad idea. Rather than rely on both you and your audience misunderstanding autism in the same way, we should use another comparison.



For instance: Int 18, Wis 6, Cha 6 (rounded to even values) is at the pinnacle of human intelligence and half as deep in deficiencies in two other areas. They are poor at interactions with others due to deficiencies in both causing and noticing social pressures. They have a lot of knowledge, yet are prone to foolish application of said knowledge. However if someone can get past their deficiencies they will find quite a sharp tool in the shed.

[bean illus]

I see someone large with a heart disorder. They train to keep as healthy as possible, and would be truly exceptional if not for their heart condition. They can only exert themselves in short burst, and are susceptible to poison and disease because of the weak heart. Perhaps hemophiliac also to make up for the DANGEROUSLY LOW HP.

The Int Wis Cha thing is easy to explain, also. The malady (in utero?) that cause his tragic condition also caused a sort of autistic savant syndrome. He can memorize words at a glance, and languages and calculations are simple, but he can barely remember to check what time it is or change his clothes. All sorts of temptations and addictions avail upon him, and he often makes the worst choice whenever discretion is needed.

Honestly, the only reason to take this character would be RP, and only if your DM and PCs agree.

Much smarter would be something like:
14, 15, 10, - 16, 10, 6 . . .Maybe. Add level bonus to Dex for both hit and AC. Str is the easiest to boost, iirc, and Wis is the easiest to avoid (by being a sniper).


Reading these responses as someone with definite autism, probable positive wisdom modifier and likely nonnegative charisma modifier is slightly cringeworthy. Please stop the "Low WIS/CHA=autism" meme.

I hope you didn't take offense to my use of my own experience. I have an autistic niece who reminds me of a complex fictional hero character with autism, and my back story (above) is based on a mix of those. In my eyes; the reference was complimentary (believe it or not).

I feel my niece has a lawful good alignment, but sometimes causes chaos as a bi-product of her lack of Wis. This leaves her with few but loyal friends. I find it a good character device to excuse 'why do we have a 6 Cha person as a friend'.

I also get the feeling that no matter what descriptive was used to describe an 'Extremely Low Wis/Cha' character, someone would be mad (mongoloid? retarded? triggered?). Luckily i think we will all live to play another day.

With that said, i personally pledge to continue to try to be sensitive to others views.

I don't suppose you have any other things to say about my response? . ... I type and type, and it would be flattering if folks responded to more than the one poorly placed word in my week. lol

I see someone large with a heart disorder. They train to keep as healthy as possible, and would be truly exceptional if not for their heart condition. They can only exert themselves in short burst, and are susceptible to poison and disease because of the weak heart. Hence; the DANGEROUSLY LOW HP/etc.

The Int Wis Cha thing is easy to explain, also. The malady (in utero?) that cause his tragic condition also caused a sort of savant syndrome. He can memorize words at a glance, and languages and calculations are simple, but he can barely remember to check what time it is or change his clothes. All sorts of temptations and addictions avail upon him, and he often makes the worst choice whenever discretion is needed.

I see the PC as a lawful good alignment, but sometimes causes chaos as a bi-product of her lack of Wis. This leaves her with few but loyal friends. I find it a good character device to excuse 'why do we have a 6 Cha person as a friend'.

Much smarter would be something like:
14, 15, 10, - 16, 10, 6 . . .Maybe. Add level bonus to Dex for both hit and AC. Str is the easiest to boost, iirc, and Wis is the easiest to avoid (by being a sniper). Maybe go elf for the bonus to Dex and Int, and stick to 10-12 HD classes? Strictly a ranged melee who would need support from the group.

Honestly, the only reason to take this character would be RP, and only if your DM and PCs agree. I would play it.

[Mordaedil]

dual talented human

Shows my inexperience with Pathfinder. At the cost of a feat and the skill points, I'm not entirely sure if it is worth it, but if the goal requires high scores, then yeah.