[3.5] Dream Master

[Thurbane]

Hey all,

Looking for some advise on an (NPC) build.

I'm looking to build a dream themed caster. I know Wizard would probably be the best at this, but I'm wanting a spontaneous caster.

Build I am considering is Human Paragon 3/Beguiler 9. Human Paragon is there to get Lucid Dreaming as a class skill (which will be maxed out), and also to delay Beguiler to get the most out of advanced learning. The bonus feat and stat boost don't hurt, either.

Character would be taking the Oneiromancy feat chain from HoH.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Cheers - T

[Doctor Despair]

I think there's a lot of very powerful dream abilities in psionics.

[Tiri]

I don't see how you are 'getting the most' out of Advanced Learning by losing three levels of casting.

Also, is this build limited to 12 levels?

[Inevitability]

I don't see how you are 'getting the most' out of Advanced Learning by losing three levels of casting.

Presumably a single beguiler level is taken before the human paragon entry.

[Korahir]

I am a little confused too by maxing out adaptive learning as it is maxed out by the human paragon dip?
@Tiri: I assume progression would be Human Paragon 1 Beguiler x Human Paragon only losing one Caster level.

So far it looks promising. Beguiler seems more of a style choice though or do I overlook an important class feature working with Oneiromancy?

[Tiri]

Presumably a single beguiler level is taken before the human paragon entry.

I suppose that makes sense. I probably should have inferred that.


I am a little confused too by maxing out adaptive learning as it is maxed out by the human paragon dip?

He's maximising Advanced Learning, the Beguiler class feature, not Adaptive Learning, the Human Paragon class feature.

Since he's delaying two levels of the actual Beguiler class, by the time he gets the Advanced Learning class feature he can cast a higher level of spells and thus select a higher-level spell with the class feature.

[Korahir]

I suppose that makes sense. I probably should have inferred that.



He's maximising Advanced Learning, the Beguiler class feature, not Adaptive Learning, the Human Paragon class feature.

Since he's delaying two levels of the actual Beguiler class, by the time he gets the Advanced Learning class feature he can cast a higher level of spells and thus select a higher-level spell with the class feature.

Reading > me. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Anthrowhale]

The most straightforward spontaneous approach I know uses the generic Spellcaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#spellcaster) giving access to both the skill and every spell you could want.

[Mr Adventurer]

I think to help you the most, people would need to know what it is that you want this but to actually do? What mechanics do you want him to engage with?

Night Hags have a unique dream-related ability, though it doesn't interact with other dream abilities AFAICT. You might be able to steal that.

[Vaz]

The most straightforward spontaneous approach I know uses the generic Spellcaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#spellcaster) giving access to both the skill and every spell you could want.
Generic Spellcaster prevents normal Player classes.

[Anthrowhale]

Generic Spellcaster prevents normal Player classes.

I see no good reason for this, particularly for an NPC. It's not like they are overpowered compared to existing classes.

[daremetoidareyo]

My, frankly underrated entry into the villainous comp, the demon bear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19662108&postcount=63), based on old new mutants comics is adaptable to a human or strongheart halfling.

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Consider warmage. Oneiromancy allows you to target dreamselves, but doesn't stipulate that it has to be in a dream. So you can non lethal blast the bejimmies out of your pcs

[Thurbane]

Presumably a single beguiler level is taken before the human paragon entry.

Exactly so, yes.

I am a little confused too by maxing out adaptive learning as it is maxed out by the human paragon dip?
@Tiri: I assume progression would be Human Paragon 1 Beguiler x Human Paragon only losing one Caster level.
Adaptive learning will be used for Lucid Dreaming.

I think to help you the most, people would need to know what it is that you want this but to actually do? What mechanics do you want him to engage with?

Night Hags have a unique dream-related ability, though it doesn't interact with other dream abilities AFAICT. You might be able to steal that.

Basically I want a RAW (close to) full caster who specializes in dream-related spells and abilities.

The most straightforward spontaneous approach I know uses the generic Spellcaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#spellcaster) giving access to both the skill and every spell you could want.

Good suggestion, however, these optional UA classes don't exist in my game.

We use some UA material (i.e. Paragon classes), but not all.

[The Viscount]

If you can nab poison use, you can maybe get some utility out of venom from a dream serpent (Secrets of Xendrik) that causes dreams when the target falls asleep.

[Thurbane]

If you can nab poison use, you can maybe get some utility out of venom from a dream serpent (Secrets of Xendrik) that causes dreams when the target falls asleep.

Cool. I'm pretty sure there's a feat in DotU that allows poison use without the chance of accidentally poisoning yourself.

[daremetoidareyo]

Cool. I'm pretty sure there's a feat in DotU that allows poison use without the chance of accidentally poisoning yourself.

poison spell metamagic?

[Mr Adventurer]

If you can nab poison use, you can maybe get some utility out of venom from a dream serpent (Secrets of Xendrik) that causes dreams when the target falls asleep.


Cool. I'm pretty sure there's a feat in DotU that allows poison use without the chance of accidentally poisoning yourself.

That is actually pretty cool - in DotU IIRC there's also a feat that lets you apply a poison to a spell you cast. That could be awesome in combo.

[Thurbane]

I could use Arcane Disciple to pick up the Dream Domain; but there is a bit of double up on the spells and the Beguiler list, and would also mean there character needs a high Wis as well as Int.

[Waker]

What is the intended role for the NPC?

[Thurbane]

What is the intended role for the NPC?

Just to be a thematic caster at this point in time...not to sure if he'll be a villain, ally or other...

[nettle3305]

The 3.0 module Bastion of Broken Souls features a scene called the Guild of Sleep. A CR 22 NPC called Dreamer Prime runs the Guild. She has a supernatural ability called Dream Haunting (which reads like it induces sleep paralysis (as the IRL condition, not paralysis a la D&D) on chaotic or evil creatures) as well as Dreamborn Tigers and Winged Triceratops as minions. And sleep golems and other fun stuff.

In addition, there is an 8th level Illusion (Shadow) spell called Dream Image which is like a worse version of Project Image, but it's thematically sleep.

[Bronk]

I think using a dream dwarf instead of a human would be more thematic.

[daremetoidareyo]

I think using a dream dwarf instead of a human would be more thematic.

The only way to get lucid dreaming at 1 skill rank per skill rank is with human paragon. Otherwise, you gotta pay cross class price after a factotum dip.

[Thurbane]

I think using a dream dwarf instead of a human would be more thematic.

I had considered that, but as daremetoidareyo points out, I need human for skill purposes.

[Tiri]

You could always take Human Heritage.

[ShurikVch]

How about the 3rd-party stuff?
There are PrCs:
Dreamshaper in Towers of High Sorcery - full caster; have variant of Circle Magic
Dream Weaver in Book of Broken Dreams - separate casting from short spell list - up ti 4th level; but allow to simulate casting of spells via Lucid Dreaming checks - 9th level spell is DC 65 - and it's not even from a class feature, but bonus feat (which you can, if you want take separately)

Also, Snare Dreamer spell - from Call of Cthulhu d20 - allow to target (and bring to caster) a soul of sleeping creature; spell have a mile-long range, don't required LoS, allow Will save, Enchantment, Cleric 4

[ATHATH]

If you want to go with an eldritch vibe, you could take the cerebrosis feat.