Weapon Finesse and Combat Buffs

[PrincessOfNight]

Hello, again, all!

So, my friends are starting a 3.5 campaign, soon. We have a few rookies in our group, so not every book is allowed to stop the veteran players from completely outshining the rest of the group. The Books allowed are Player's I and II, Monster Manual I-III, DMG I and II, Spell Compendium, Magic Item Compendium, Planar Handbook, Player's Guide to the Planes, Player's Guide to Faerun and the Forgotten Realms Campaign setting. Each player is also allowed to bring one books for themselves, and I've picked Tome of Battle.

ECL is 15th, and I've already decided to do a Sorcerer-6/Warblade-1/Jade Phoenix Mage-8/. (Yes, Warblade, not Crusader. I hate their recharge mechanic, even if it is better on Action Economy. :P)

32-Pt Buy, so my stats are STR-10, DEX-16, CON-14, INT-14, WIS-8, CHA-18 at level 15.

But, anyway, my build is running a little MAD, and to help with that, I've dumped Wis, and Str, opting to focus on Cha, and Dex.

But, now I've hit a snag as to which buff spells to take. I've been recommended to take Bite of the Weretiger for my one Level 6th Spell known. But it doesn't really help since my strength score is so low.

It's difficult to find good buff spells that synergize with Dexterity given the limited sources to draw from. Is there anything I may have overlooked? Or is Bite of the Weretiger still my best option?

[A.A.King]

Well there is always Bite of the Wererat, it synergizes so much with Weapon Finesse it actually gives you the feat. You could build your entire build around having to cast this spell first, which is always an idea I particularly like (though not very optimal for a gish).

[PrincessOfNight]

Well there is always Bite of the Wererat, it synergizes so much with Weapon Finesse it actually gives you the feat. You could build your entire build around having to cast this spell first I suppose.

I had considered it, tbh. The only drawback, is that it grants an Enhancement bonus, which doesn't stack with the Gloves of Dexterity +4 my character has.

Sorry, I guess I should have mentioned which Magic Items that I have.

Besides, I already have the Weapon Finesse feat. My character would be pretty useless, in melee, otherwise. :P

[Xethik]

Bard spells like Nixie's Grace (SpC) and Inner Beauty would be pretty good. Inner Beauty is in Fiendish Codex, though, and I don't know of a way to grab Bard spells without magic items outside of your book list.

This source could help: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=176.msg565#msg565

Divine Agility would be good if you could sneak it onto the Sorc list.

[PrincessOfNight]

Bard spells like Nixie's Grace (SpC) and Inner Beauty would be pretty good. Inner Beauty is in Fiendish Codex, though, and I don't know of a way to grab Bard spells without magic items outside of your book list.

This source could help: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=176.msg565#msg565

Divine Agility would be good if you could sneak it onto the Sorc list.

Because we have 2 people in the group who have only played 5e, and one who is still relatively new to 3.5, my DM is pretty strict on homebrew. Especially for player's like myself who are already familiar with the system, he's not going to allow us to bend the rules, even a bit.

And again, ONLY those books that I listed are allowed. I can't use Fiendish Codex.

[Xethik]

Because we have 2 people in the group who have only played 5e, and one who is still relatively new to 3.5, my DM is pretty strict on homebrew. Especially for player's like myself who are already familiar with the system, he's not going to allow us to bend the rules, even a bit.

And again, ONLY those books that I listed are allowed. I can't use Fiendish Codex.
Oh sorry I misread. I thought you could use Fiendish Codex IF someone else in the group selected it as their book. The only reason why I really mentioned it.

When I say sneak a spell onto your spell list, I didn't mean to imply asking the DM or cheating or homebrew. There are perfectly legal ways of expanding your spells, though I'll honestly admit I don't know off the top of my head which of those are in your allowed list.

You could look through http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2777 and see if anything jumps out as in your list and feasible. In a quick skim, I didn't see anything.

[A.A.King]

I thought that the only thing you had already decided upon was the class levels. So what absolutetly cannot be changed with regards to the build: what feats, what items, what spells known, what maneuvers?

It is easier to see and fill in the gaps of what you have than make more general suggestions that might conflict with existing material.

[PrincessOfNight]

Oh sorry I misread. I thought you could use Fiendish Codex IF someone else in the group selected it as their book. The only reason why I really mentioned it.

When I say sneak a spell onto your spell list, I didn't mean to imply asking the DM or cheating or homebrew. There are perfectly legal ways of expanding your spells, though I'll honestly admit I don't know off the top of my head which of those are in your allowed list.

You could look through http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2777 and see if anything jumps out as in your list and feasible. In a quick skim, I didn't see anything.

Once a book is introduced, we can use it, yeah. But no one else has selected a book, and I'd rather not rely on what could be, you know? :/

But thanks for the link! I'll definitely check it out.

[PrincessOfNight]

I thought that the only thing you had already decided upon was the class levels. So what absolutetly cannot be changed with regards to the build: what feats, what items, what spells known, what maneuvers?

It is easier to see and fill in the gaps of what you have than make more general suggestions that might conflict with existing material.

Only the class levels are decided. I had just budgeted for those Gloves with my Wealth by Level. So, I thought it was worth mentioning.

Edit: Here's what I was considering, though.

(Only four Level 2 spells because I took the Sorcerer ACF Force Charged Energy)

- Spells -
1st)
Feather Fall
Mage Armor
Orb of Fire, Lesser
Shield
Summon Monster I

2nd)
Body of the Sun
Resist Energy
Scorching Ray
Wraithstrike

3rd)
Fly
Haste
Magic Weapon, Greater
Summon Monster III

4th)
Blast of Flame
Mirror Image, Greater
Ruin Delver’s Fortune

5th)
Overland Flight
Summon Monster V

6th)
Bite of the Weretiger,

- Maneuvers -

Moment of Perfect Mind
Wolf Fang Strike
Wall of Blades (Martial Study)
Burning Blade (Su)
FoeHammer
Divine Surge
Leaping Flame (Su)
Rallying Strike
STANCE: Punishing Stance
STANCE: Flame’s Blessing (Su)
STANCE: Aura of Perfect Order (Martial Stance)

- Magic Items -

Cloak of Charisma +6
Ring of Protection +3
Gloves of Dexterity +4
Talisman of Undying Fortitude
Custom Runestaff (Magic Circle vs Evil, Dispel Magic, Outiluke's Resilient Sphere, Field of Resistance)

[Hiro Quester]

MIC has rules for making a custom runestaff. You attune with the runestaff, and then consider the spells on the staff as spells you know.

A DC 20 UMD check, and you can use spells not on your class list. That can enable bard spells on a staff to be usable by you.

You should also consider Sirine's Grace, a 4th level bard/Druid spell that buffs your Dex and Charisma, but more importantly adds your (now buffed) charisma bonus as a Deflection bonus to AC. A CHA based Gish like your PC can get a lot of mileage from that spell.

Bite of the weretiger is also going to be great for you. The +16 bonus to strength will help with damage, even if you don't get a huge bonus to Dex and so to weapon finesse attacks. The boost to NA and Con will also help a lot.

EDIT: I see your edit now, and you already are considering a custom runestaff.

[PrincessOfNight]

MIC has rules for making a custom runestaff. You attune with the runestaff, and then consider the spells on the staff as spells you know.

A DC 20 UMD check, and you can use spells not on your class list. That can enable bard spells on a staff to be usable by you.

You should also consider Sirine's Grace, a 4th level bard/Druid spell that buffs your Dex and Charisma, but more importantly adds your (now buffed) charisma bonus as a Deflection bonus to AC. A CHA based Gish like your PC can get a lot of mileage from that spell.

Bite of the weretiger is also going to be great for you. The +16 bonus to strength will help with damage, even if you don't get a huge bonus to Dex and so to weapon finesse attacks. The boost to NA and Con will also help a lot.

I do already have a Runestaff, but I could easily modify it to include Sirine's Grace. It's a great idea! I'll have to check with my DM to see if he's okay with that, though.

Even if something is allowed RAW, he's pretty skeptical with almost anything that I come forward with.

[Xethik]

I do already have a Runestaff, but I could easily modify it to include Sirine's Grace. It's a great idea! I'll have to check with my DM to see if he's okay with that, though.

Even if something is allowed RAW, he's pretty skeptical with almost anything that I come forward with.
Sirine's Grace (4th lvl) and Nixie's Grace (6th lvl) are both great if you are getting cross-class spells.

Nixie's is very similar, but larger bonuses, longer duration (10 min/level instead of 1 round/level) but does not buff AC. You'd probably want to consider ditching the enhancement-based magic items if you pick up that one, though. I'm a bit hazy on the Runestaff rules but I imagine you don't have many spell slots left for it.

In the off chance that someone picks Frostburn, Snowsong is a spell that can grant a morale bonus to Charisma as well as being a nice gish spell. Again, a Bard spell.

I'm playing a Bard gish so I only know their spells, sorry!

[Hiro Quester]

Me too. I played a bard/SC Gish recently, so used a runestaff with sorc/wiz spells that were not on bard list.

Double check that bard spells can be on a runestaff. I'm AFB. I'm not sure how many bards take the relevant creation feat. You may need one caster to create the staff, and have access to all the relevant spells they are adding to the staff. So adding bard and sorcerer spells might be hard. (Though a staff creator might well have a selection of staves with useful spells with which they can attune, to add to a staff.)

[Deophaun]

OK, I'm going off the assumption that, since you mentioned Weapon Finesse in the title, you really care about your attack roll. If that's wrong, well, read on anyway because it might give you some ideas.

Get yourself some glyph seals from the Magic Item Compendium and a masterwork potion belt from your Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book. Attach as many glyph seals onto the pockets of your masterwork potion belt as the potion belt has pockets, charged with true strike. Now you can open one of those pockets as and get the benefits of true strike.... as a free action.

Who needs Quicken?

[A.A.King]

I keep considering options not available to you because of the book restriction. If you aren't set yet then it is not too late to consider a character whose melee contributions are build around casting Bite of the Wererat first (invest that money from the Glove into a nice Rapier) but baring that:

One of the best 6th level buff spells is "Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability". Why waste a standard action casting Haste if you can have your familiar do it instead?

A spell like "Mislead" may not necessarily scream Gish but it can be used nicely to create a surprise round against an enemy that can see you. Use your illusionairy double to keep him distract while you sneak up for a surprise attack. Even when the illusion stops being useful, you still have a nice Improved Invisibility active.

[PrincessOfNight]

OK, I'm going off the assumption that, since you mentioned Weapon Finesse in the title, you really care about your attack roll. If that's wrong, well, read on anyway because it might give you some ideas.

Get yourself some glyph seals from the Magic Item Compendium and a masterwork potion belt from your Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book. Attach as many glyph seals onto the pockets of your masterwork potion belt as the potion belt has pockets, charged with true strike. Now you can open one of those pockets as and get the benefits of true strike.... as a free action.

Who needs Quicken?

That's completely nasty. I love it!

And, yes, I'm trying to get my To Hit as high as I can.

Especially with the Stance, Aura of Perfect Order, making one d20 roll an auto-11, once per turn, I want to make sure my DM will never have an enemy that can avoid me, ever again. :P

[PrincessOfNight]

I keep considering options not available to you because of the book restriction. If you aren't set yet then it is not too late to consider a character whose melee contributions are build around casting Bite of the Wererat first (invest that money from the Glove into a nice Rapier) but baring that:

One of the best 6th level buff spells is "Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability". Why waste a standard action casting Haste if you can have your familiar do it instead?

A spell like "Mislead" may not necessarily scream Gish but it can be used nicely to create a surprise round against an enemy that can see you. Use your illusionairy double to keep him distract while you sneak up for a surprise attack. Even when the illusion stops being useful, you still have a nice Improved Invisibility active.

It's tough to make a character to be too optimised. But I think that was my DM's intent by limiting my options so much. I'm not even allowed to play a Cleric, Druid or Wizard, because they're too strong out of the box.

And we're playing in a Spellplague era of the Forgotten Realms so my DM can hit us with a Dead Magic Zone whenever he wants.

I actually like the Mislead idea, though. I had never considered it for a Gish.

[John Longarrow]

Since Planar Handbook is on the table, if you are not sold on race yet Neraphim is a fun one. This is especially true if you can also have alter self. Lots of fun shapes in the 5HD or less list for good movement types and really high Natural Armor.

If you are going dex-centric I'd suggest trying to get a shadow hand stance for ShadowBlade. If you are high dex anyhow, may as well get dex to damage while your at it.