Gish options

[danielxcutter]

Note: Thought exercise/general discussion.

So from what I see, the most optimal way to play a multiclass arcane gish(as opposed to gish-in-a-can classes like Duskblades) is to fill most of your spell slots/known spells with buffs. I am not totally opposed to this, as without buffs you're weaker than a Fighter, and that is low indeed.

However, I wonder if you can spare room for other spells, such as debuffs, utility spells, and maybe even the occasional blasting spell. Also, I'd also like to find out about buffs that don't just give a flat bonus to a stat or something, have unique effects, and are pretty fun to use.

I do have some ideas, so it would be nice if you would give feedback about them as well as your own advice.

*Enervation and other Necromancy school debuffs

I'm pretty sure that even on a gish, Enervation is worth it. However, what about some of the other debuffing rays such as Ray of Exhaustion?(did I get that right?) Yeah, they don't work on undead and constructs, but they work on almost everything else.

*The Fell Drain metamagic feat

Combine with Thunderlance or Sonic Weapon for level drain on every hit. Combine with Fire Shield for level drain everytime you get hit in melee. Combine with Cloud of Knives for level drain every turn as a free action... Maybe it's not the best tactic, but it seems far from the worst.

*Prismatic Sphere

Combine with the Invisible metamagic feat for extra fun. Time Stop and Polymorph Any Object are better, but this doesn't sound bad to me.

*Scorching Touch

13d6 fire damage and Fort save against daze... times caster level. Crazy.

*Greater Invisibility

So what if you don't deal sneak attack damage? You're still invisible.



Anything else, playgrounders?

[John Longarrow]

Battle Field Control tends to work better than just "Buffs". This lets you pace how quickly enemies can close with you. Its almost as important as spells that enhance you movement.

From what I've seen at my table, a good gish isn't going to just buff and go. They use spells to control what the enemy can do. Their weapon deals damage so they don't need to blast much. A couple stock buffs and your set for melee. Its your ability to shape when and where the fight takes place that becomes most important.

[danielxcutter]

Battle Field Control tends to work better than just "Buffs". This lets you pace how quickly enemies can close with you. Its almost as important as spells that enhance you movement.

From what I've seen at my table, a good gish isn't going to just buff and go. They use spells to control what the enemy can do. Their weapon deals damage so they don't need to blast much. A couple stock buffs and your set for melee. Its your ability to shape when and where the fight takes place that becomes most important.

This seems good enough for strategies, but do you have more specific advice?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Handful of buffs, handful of slots. There's plenty of room on your spells known list for more standard caster fare.

I'd probably pass on the direct attack spells. You hit things with weapons. That's the whole point of gishing it up. Otherwise, the standard buff, debuff, BFC setup is as good a way to do things for a gish as it is for a dedicated caster. It's just a matter of selecting the right spells for the right foes since you won't often be able to use all three;

Enemies with high numbers or unknown abilities: buff up.

Enemies with solid defenses or particularly dangerous attacks: debuff

Multitudinous enemies: BFC.

It's not really complicated, just takes some practice.

[Rebel7284]

I feel it's pretty difficult to be specific without a particular build in mind. Does this hypothetical gish have a way to persist spells? How about quicken spells? Do they have access to sorcerer-only spells? Immunity to daze for Celerity abuse?

Etc.

[gorfnab]

The Gish Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?321715-The-Gish-Handbook) has a fairly nice list of spell options for gish builds.