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Pigboy
2007-07-19, 12:14 AM
What are some of the more famous/used/un-famous/you just made up exploits in DnD? I personally am looking for ones for rangers...'cause that's how I am. And I'm curious as to if anybody knows any.

Fishies
2007-07-19, 12:16 AM
Diplomacy god.

Joltz
2007-07-19, 12:22 AM
pun pun (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=491801) most famous ever--probably because he's everything at once

Raltar
2007-07-19, 12:26 AM
I can never get the wizard's board to load...no matter how many different links I click that lead there, it always times out. Every other website on the web comes up, but not that.

Callos_DeTerran
2007-07-19, 12:38 AM
Unfortunately Pun-Pun doesn't work. Normally, even with access to the required supplemental material you need for the abilities. It requires a DM to be easily swayed on rule twistings in order to function.

Ulzgoroth
2007-07-19, 12:45 AM
No, it requires you to be a Scaled One (a broad term) native to Toril and to, just once, get a Sarrukh to obey your orders (or otherwise gain access to a single Su ability of said monster). After that, it's all broken... Manipulate Form is probably the worst ability ever implemented.

Tor the Fallen
2007-07-19, 12:48 AM
I often see Ur-Priest mentioned in lists of Things that should not be. Why?

Quietus
2007-07-19, 12:53 AM
I often see Ur-Priest mentioned in lists of Things that should not be. Why?

9th level spells over a 10 level class.

Callos_DeTerran
2007-07-19, 12:55 AM
No, it requires you to be a Scaled One (a broad term) native to Toril and to, just once, get a Sarrukh to obey your orders (or otherwise gain access to a single Su ability of said monster). After that, it's all broken... Manipulate Form is probably the worst ability ever implemented.

It's not just those reasons though. Belial said once that Pun-Pun didn't work and it was amazingly simple why it didn't work so go ask him. Maybe that changed recently or sumthin' since its been like...two years since he said it but he was very confident that not only did it not work but Pun-pun never even gets off the ground in the first place.

'sides...Sarrukh only exist in a FR setting anyway and not many people play that sorta setting. (But that'd retract my previous statement before about allowing all the supplemental reasources neccesary for Pun-pun.)

Jack Mann
2007-07-19, 12:56 AM
9th level spells over a 10 level class.

Like a lot of things in D&D, this isn't broken when used as it's originally presented (non-caster taking a casting class). It's just that when you combine it with certain other things that it becomes broken.

D&D game designers are very bad at spotting these synergies.

Of course, then you have plenty of things that are broken when used precisely as they were intended, like polymorph, or the candle of invocation.

TSGames
2007-07-19, 12:58 AM
I believe that The Omniscificer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=546612) exploits many mechanics.

Jerthanis
2007-07-19, 01:00 AM
A popular one bouncing around these days is the fact that it never says anywhere in the RAW that you can't take actions while dead. That's a pretty obvious and immediate no if you ever even think of suggesting it.

I can't think of any rules exploits for rangers though.

TheOOB
2007-07-19, 01:02 AM
D&D suffers from the problem that the designers usually do what seems cool first, and what is balanced second(actually its much lower then that even), and beings D&D is such a rules intensive game, game balance should a primary concern.

Do we really need a class that can, as an immediate action, bring up a barrier that stops any attack, sure it's cool, but is it balanced, did I mention that it's an arcane class that losses no caster levels and only halfway difficult prerequisite is spell focus(abjuration) (which isn't even a bad feat, abjuration has some nasty save or lose spells). Sure it's cool, but that initiate of the sevenfold veil doesn't need to exist...nor does celerity.

-Cor-
2007-07-19, 01:04 AM
The 2 Full-Attacks 20 ft. step Mounted Combat maneuver.

Or basically, just Mounted Combat in general.

I find it easily exploitable if, shall we say, horse sense isn't applied to it. By RAW, as long as I'm overground, I can break the hell out of combat with a Mount and some ranks in Ride.

Norsesmithy
2007-07-19, 01:25 AM
I believe that The Omniscificer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=546612) exploits many mechanics.

I just love this quote from that thread:
When the knowledge check is made, it is not possible to calculate the bonus the omniscificer recieves. In an instant of agony whose intensity could not possibly be comprehended by mortal minds the omniscificer gains a lunatic insight that illuminates all the mysteries of the universe in an instant of perfect infinite clairty. The multiverse might be finite, or it might not, only the omniscificer knows for sure

Jarlax
2007-07-19, 01:29 AM
ToB + vital Recovery: initiate combat with another PC, only deal nonlethal damage to them, particularly useful if you have a PC immune to non-lethal damage. recover your maneuvers to heal yourself, end combat. repeat. bonus, you only need 1 level in any ToB class, because the feat calculates based on PC level not class level.

TheThan
2007-07-19, 02:28 AM
If you’re down to –1 or less hit points you can leap into some water and start drowning, this actually heals you and brings you hit points up to 0.


find out for yourself (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#drowning)

Triggerhappy938
2007-07-19, 03:45 AM
Wait, I thought this was the topic of the whole forum, not just one thread...

ZeroNumerous
2007-07-19, 04:17 AM
Diplomacy.

Breaking an entire campaign at level 3.

Kurald Galain
2007-07-19, 05:26 AM
Persistent Spell.

Nightsticks.

Alter self / polymorph / pao / shapechange.

IotSV

For a ranger, the brokenest thing you can do is become a druid, which can do everything the ranger can do only better.

Jack_Simth
2007-07-19, 06:07 AM
9th level spells over a 10 level class.
... which you can qualify for at 5th, to take at 6th, and get 9th level spells at around 14th level.

Seriously. A Bard-4/Barbarian-1 (or Ranger-1, or Fighter-1, or Monk-1, or just about any good Fort save class-1) can meet the requirements fairly easily.

giblina
2007-07-19, 07:53 AM
Any feat, item, or ability, meant to improve upon a deficiency, that can be applied to a character who's already good at it.

Warshaper is an easy example. This PRC is intended to provide a shapeshifting spellcaster with not-so-great combat abilities (druid, wizard) with some benefits that put them more on terms with pure-melee classes in terms of combat ability.

It "breaks" when you apply it to a natural-shapeshifting race who's taken a melee class (lycanthrope or what have you). Because now you've taken a class that's good at melee, and improved upon that even more.

Also, over-specialization.

There are a lot of new classes which think extreme specialization is a fair trade-off for too significant improvement within the area of specialization. What happens though is it breaks monster challenge ratings. Single characters can solo, without the slightest risk, monsters of same or even higher CR, all the time.

Kurald Galain
2007-07-19, 09:02 AM
Since when does a druid have "not so great" combat abilities? :smallbiggrin:

giblina
2007-07-19, 09:08 AM
Druids will have average BAB progression and limited melee feats.

That's not to say a bear can't fight well (of course it can), but generally speaking they won't be on par with a same levelled melee character (nor should they be).

Warshaper PRC helps put them there (in exchange for some magical ability), but as mentioned, when you stick that PRC on a melee class (from a natural shapeshifting race) it breaks.

clockwork warrior
2007-07-19, 09:10 AM
Any feat, item, or ability, meant to improve upon a deficiency, that can be applied to a character who's already good at it.

Warshaper is an easy example. This PRC is intended to provide a shapeshifting spellcaster with not-so-great combat abilities (druid, wizard) with some benefits that put them more on terms with pure-melee classes in terms of combat ability.

It "breaks" when you apply it to a natural-shapeshifting race who's taken a melee class (lycanthrope or what have you). Because now you've taken a class that's good at melee, and improved upon that even more.
hehehe, just play a changeling and never go to your normal form

PirateMonk
2007-07-19, 09:22 AM
Druids will have average BAB progression and limited melee feats.

That's not to say a bear can't fight well (of course it can), but generally speaking they won't be on par with a same levelled melee character (nor should they be).

Warshaper PRC helps put them there (in exchange for some magical ability), but as mentioned, when you stick that PRC on a melee class (from a natural shapeshifting race) it breaks.

But melee classes can't buff or heal themselves, or cast Flame Strike, or Finger of Death. And if you allow Spell Compendium, Bite of the X spells make you pretty much equal to a fighter even without other spells.

giblina
2007-07-19, 09:30 AM
You're drifting into a counter-argument for an argument I never made.

I never said druids don't have a wide array of abilities. I never said druids suck at combat.

I said that warshaper PRC is intended to close the gap in melee combat prowess between melee-oriented druids and pure melee classes, and the PRC breaks when you apply it to a melee class who's shapeshifting comes from his race (ie: changeling).

You end up with a melee class character that does a lot more damage than a melee class character should be able to do at their level.

It would be akin to having a PRC called "Supa-Fighta" that's exactly like fighter but all damage is increased by 50% :smalltongue:

Elana
2007-07-19, 09:42 AM
A popular one bouncing around these days is the fact that it never says anywhere in the RAW that you can't take actions while dead...

Yes it does.

When you are dead your HP drop to -10.
As your non lethal damage is never below 0 following rule aplies:


When your nonlethal damage exceeds your current hit points, you fall unconscious. While unconscious, you are helpless.


Note that the description of dying gives you a chance to be consious despite that effect, but that rule only applies whily dying.
Once your dead the normal rule takes over and you are unconsious.

PirateMonk
2007-07-19, 09:44 AM
You're drifting into a counter-argument for an argument I never made.

I never said druids don't have a wide array of abilities. I never said druids suck at combat.

I said that warshaper PRC is intended to close the gap in melee combat prowess between melee-oriented druids and pure melee classes, and the PRC breaks when you apply it to a melee class who's shapeshifting comes from his race (ie: changeling).

You end up with a melee class character that does a lot more damage than a melee class character should be able to do at their level.

It would be akin to having a PRC called "Supa-Fighta" that's exactly like fighter but all damage is increased by 50% :smalltongue:

Okay, sorry, but the point is, it's trying to close a gap that should exist but doesn't.

lord_khaine
2007-07-19, 09:52 AM
actualy warshaper is made for shapechanging races like lycantropes ect, a pure druid doesnt not need it to be stronger in melee combat than a higher lv fighter, and taking the PC will only serve to weaken the druid.

Arbitrarity
2007-07-19, 10:31 AM
It's not just those reasons though. Belial said once that Pun-Pun didn't work and it was amazingly simple why it didn't work so go ask him. Maybe that changed recently or sumthin' since its been like...two years since he said it but he was very confident that not only did it not work but Pun-pun never even gets off the ground in the first place.

'sides...Sarrukh only exist in a FR setting anyway and not many people play that sorta setting. (But that'd retract my previous statement before about allowing all the supplemental reasources neccesary for Pun-pun.)

I'm gonna go read through the thread. Expect an edit in a few days.

EDIT: Belial NEVER posted on the Pun-Pun thread. Ever.

Ok, so let's see. Here: Search: Username: Belial: Term: Pun-Pun. No responses.

Search Belial, Pun. 1 Result: Belial's the Sunless Citadel.

Results: Belial has posted 5 times total. All were in the Sunless Citadel thread.

:smallconfused:

Callos_DeTerran
2007-07-19, 11:20 AM
Belial, as far as I know anyway, doesn't post on Wizards. He mostly sticks to Dicefreaks and here (which is less and less apparently). And if you search here then there are a lot more posts then just the Sunless Citidal. The Ascension game is a good example. More importantly he told me this in a PM when I jokingly said I was going to play a kobold psion for his god game. He may have posted it on the OOC thread for that game but I don't know.

If your really THAT determined to find out what exactly he said that makes it not work then have fun doing it. He was referring to the 9th-13th level Pun-pun and looking at the thread again, it seems Pun-Pun has been remodeled to a lower level verison.

Arbitrarity
2007-07-19, 11:29 AM
He's got the 1'st level version now :P.

And no, I checked his total posts here, it was 5.
Belial (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=21845)

Wow, 7840 posts on xkcd forums.

Belial_The_Leveler?

Callos_DeTerran
2007-07-19, 11:58 AM
He's got the 1'st level version now :P.

And no, I checked his total posts here, it was 5.
Belial (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=21845)

Wow, 7840 posts on xkcd forums.

Belial_The_Leveler?


Huh, whadda know....theres two Belial's. Yeah it'd be Belial_The_Leveler I suppose and not the plan old Belial I used because I'm lazy.,

Hyfigh
2007-07-19, 01:05 PM
I'd really like to see the reasoning that even the earlier versions of Pun-pun don't work. I've read through the entire thread (and still keep up with it) and it's pretty obvious that every case has been argued and, well, shot down...

giblina
2007-07-19, 01:18 PM
Okay, sorry, but the point is, it's trying to close a gap that should exist but doesn't.

Build me a straight druid that does melee combat better than a straight fighter of the same level and I'll be impressed. By better I mean inflicts more damage per round with melee attacks and takes less damage per round from melee attacks.


actualy warshaper is made for shapechanging races like lycantropes ect, a pure druid doesnt not need it to be stronger in melee combat than a higher lv fighter, and taking the PC will only serve to weaken the druid.

Lycanthropes don't need it. Their LA is already balanced for their abilities. When you jack up their natural weapon damage it breaks them and they inflict more damage than a character their level should.

Hyfigh
2007-07-19, 01:40 PM
Build me a straight druid that does melee combat better than a straight fighter of the same level and I'll be impressed. By better I mean inflicts more damage per round with melee attacks and takes less damage per round from melee attacks.

Would this include allowing the druid his spells, specifically for buffs? What level? What sources?

Edit: Also, provide a straight fighter build that you consider strong enough to fill the criteria you set forth (good damage output and good damage mitigation).

giblina
2007-07-19, 01:50 PM
Would this include allowing the druid his spells, specifically for buffs?

Let's be nice and say any buff that has a duration of 10 mins / level or greater (my real preference would be to say only buffs with 1 hour / level or greater). Assume anything with shorter duration is available to you but needs to be cast after the fight starts.


What level?

Whatever level you want between 1 and 20.


What sources?

SRD.

Kurald Galain
2007-07-19, 01:56 PM
Let's be nice and say any buff that has a duration of 10 mins / level or greater

What about the druid's other class feature, the animal companion? Is it also allowed to help with damage output against this fighter?

Seffbasilisk
2007-07-19, 01:57 PM
Let's be nice and say any buff that has a duration of 10 mins / level or greater (my real preference would be to say only buffs with 1 hour / level or greater). Assume anything with shorter duration is available to you but needs to be cast after the fight starts.



Whatever level you want between 1 and 20.



SRD.

I weep for your ignorance. Fighter vs Druid....'s just askin' to be slaughtered, unless the Druid isn't built well. If you want, set up a thread in the OOC and the IC parts o' this forum, and if you want I'll DM it, or even play the fighter for you (to the best of my, imho considerable, ability).

giblina
2007-07-19, 02:00 PM
Animal Companion is fine (provided we're not level 1 where the wolf by itself is 2 HD and could kick anyone's butt :smalltongue: )

And also keep in mind that I'm interested in the melee abilities of the druid, not it's ability to turn into a bird and drop flamestrikes and summon 40 elementals or whatever.

I never said druid wasn't a good class (I play one), just that I don't think it can out-melee a melee class.

You pick the level and let me know and I'll make the fighter. Let's do 30 point buy, max HP first level, avg HP thereafter?

brian c
2007-07-19, 02:14 PM
A popular one bouncing around these days is the fact that it never says anywhere in the RAW that you can't take actions while dead. That's a pretty obvious and immediate no if you ever even think of suggesting it.

I can't think of any rules exploits for rangers though.

Actually, there's a technical argument against that.

Unconscious: Knocked out and helpless. Unconsciousness can result from having current hit points between -1 and -9, or from nonlethal damage in excess of current hit points.

If your current hitpoints are less than 0, and your nonlethal damage is 0, then you are by definition unconscious.


Helpless: A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0

Ability Damaged/Drained: A character with Dexterity 0 is paralyzed.

Paralyzed: A paralyzed character is frozen in place and unable to move or act. A paralyzed character has effective Dexterity and Strength scores of 0 and is helpless, but can take purely mental actions. A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A paralyzed swimmer can’t swim and may drown. A creature can move through a space occupied by a paralyzed creature—ally or not. Each square occupied by a paralyzed creature, however, counts as 2 squares.


So, by RAW, you an still take purely mental actions when you're dead, but you can't move. Silent Stilled spells are about all you can do (or psionics). This isn't perfect, but it's an improvement over doing whatever you want when you're dead.

mudbunny
2007-07-19, 02:19 PM
Let me get this straight.

Because there is no rule saying that if you are dead, you can't do anything, people are saying that you can.

Anyone trying that in a game deserves to have a large, heavy book thrown at them.

Hyfigh
2007-07-19, 02:54 PM
Let me get this straight.

Because there is no rule saying that if you are dead, you can't do anything, people are saying that you can.

Anyone trying that in a game deserves to have a large, heavy book thrown at them.

Mostly, no. It's most often applied as a counter-arguement that people use to fight the "it doesn't say I can't" arguement.

Kurald Galain
2007-07-19, 02:59 PM
Let me get this straight.

Because there is no rule saying that if you are dead, you can't do anything, people are saying that you can.


Well, the OP was asking for exploitable mechanics. Just because no sane DM is going to let you get away with this one doesn't mean it's not an exploitable mechanic. Aka the Oberoni Fallacy.

There was a thread last month which explained this at great length, and went on to prove that halflings can be turned into Goodberries.

cody.burton
2007-07-19, 03:07 PM
There was a thread last month which explained this at great length, and went on to prove that halflings can be turned into Goodberries.

Of course, if you tried that with gnomes, they would be hallucinogenic (sp?) Goodberries.

LeeMon
2007-07-19, 04:30 PM
I'm going to search around for this, but I'm fairly certain I've seen (either in the rules or in a FAQ) a ruling that any dead body is an object, not a creature.

Would that be a sufficient clarification for the rules anomaly at hand?

Roland St. Jude
2007-07-19, 04:33 PM
...If you want, set up a thread in the OOC and the IC parts o' this forum, and if you want I'll DM it, or even play the fighter for you (to the best of my, imho considerable, ability).

Sheriff: Yes, please take this to the PbP section. Set up an OOC and IC, if you like, and adminster it there how you see fit. But please don't clog up this thread (or start another one in Gaming) that is essentially a PvP argument/test match. Thank you.

Bassetking
2007-07-19, 04:59 PM
I'll mention my personal favorite 'sploitable mechanic...

Cleric1/Crusader 12

Cleric 1 (Imbued Healing: Luck)
Crusader 1
Crusader 2
Crusader 3
Crusader 4
Crusader 5
Crusader 6
Crusader 7
Crusader 8
Crusader 9
Crusader 10
Crusader 11
Crusader 12 (Stance: Aura of Chaos)

Imbued Healing: Luck allows you to, for a number of minutes equal to a cast healing spell's level, treat any rolled 1's in damage as 2's.

The Crusader Stance "Aura of Chaos" Allows a player to, while it is active, re-roll any maximized damage rolled, and add it to their original damage. And then to continue rolling and adding damage, as long as the rolled dice roll their maximum amount.

Wield a 1d2 weapon. Any 1d2 Weapon. Doesn't matter. 1d2.

Enter Stance "Aura of Chaos"

Cast a healing spell before you enter combat.

Hit something.

If you deal 2 damage, re-roll. If you deal 1, treat it as 2, and re-roll. Add result. If result is 2, add, and re-roll. If result is 1, treat as 2, add, and re-roll.

Tah-dah.

Infinite Damage.

Korias
2007-07-19, 06:34 PM
Anyone trying that in a game deserves to have a large, heavy book thrown at them.

Which, Concerning DND, their are plentiful amounts of ammo. :smallbiggrin:
Especialy if mutliple books are thrown at the same time.

Tor the Fallen
2007-07-20, 12:15 AM
... which you can qualify for at 5th, to take at 6th, and get 9th level spells at around 14th level.

Seriously. A Bard-4/Barbarian-1 (or Ranger-1, or Fighter-1, or Monk-1, or just about any good Fort save class-1) can meet the requirements fairly easily.

You mean you could start out as a tank and low levels, and quickly transition into outcasting the casters by mid?

I'm going to have to check that out!

Tor the Fallen
2007-07-20, 12:19 AM
I'll mention my personal favorite 'sploitable mechanic...

Cleric1/Crusader 12

Cleric 1 (Imbued Healing: Luck)
Crusader 1
Crusader 2
Crusader 3
Crusader 4
Crusader 5
Crusader 6
Crusader 7
Crusader 8
Crusader 9
Crusader 10
Crusader 11
Crusader 12 (Stance: Aura of Chaos)

Imbued Healing: Luck allows you to, for a number of minutes equal to a cast healing spell's level, treat any rolled 1's in damage as 2's.

The Crusader Stance "Aura of Chaos" Allows a player to, while it is active, re-roll any maximized damage rolled, and add it to their original damage. And then to continue rolling and adding damage, as long as the rolled dice roll their maximum amount.

Wield a 1d2 weapon. Any 1d2 Weapon. Doesn't matter. 1d2.

Enter Stance "Aura of Chaos"

Cast a healing spell before you enter combat.

Hit something.

If you deal 2 damage, re-roll. If you deal 1, treat it as 2, and re-roll. Add result. If result is 2, add, and re-roll. If result is 1, treat as 2, add, and re-roll.

Tah-dah.

Infinite Damage.

Do you ever get to stop rolling damage?

Hunter Noventa
2007-07-20, 01:12 AM
Do you ever get to stop rolling damage?

Sure, when something dies.

SMDVogrin
2007-07-20, 01:24 AM
Do you ever get to stop rolling damage?

From Aura of Chaos (Emphasis mine):
"You _CAN_ continue rolling..."

Says you can continue, not must continue. :)

horseboy
2007-07-20, 01:26 AM
Let me get this straight.

Because there is no rule saying that if you are dead, you can't do anything, people are saying that you can.

Anyone trying that in a game deserves to have a large, heavy book thrown at them.

Or your official TFFV head spanking rubber chicken.

Rasilak
2007-07-20, 01:32 AM
Well, technically, no, beause it can only die after you've finished rolling your damage. :smallsmile:
But after some time your DM will just say "screw it, it's dead" and start hitting you with heavy books.
EDIT: Dammit, ninja'd

Roog
2007-07-20, 01:34 AM
Do you ever get to stop rolling damage?

You don't.

Let the player keep rolling while the rest of the group gets on with the game.

Triggerhappy938
2007-07-20, 01:52 AM
I swear, does anyone just play dnd to enjoy it anymore?

Jack Mann
2007-07-20, 02:01 AM
Yes, pretty much all of us. But we're also aware of the places the rules break down. We avoid them in real games. But we like to explore these areas as thought exercises.

To reiterate, almost no one actually uses these exploits. We're well aware that they would make the game less fun for everyone. We're coming up with these out of game for our own enjoyment. Number crunching for the fun of it, poking holes at the mechanics.

Pun-Pun was made just to show how a few unrelated mechanics would interact, leading to unexpected (and somewhat humorous) results. My own Paragnostic Apostle Trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47669) will never see the light of day, at least not by me.

We play D&D for pretty much the same reason you do. But we also like to mess with the mechanics, to find the broken parts. If you don't like it, then don't read these threads.

Alveanerle
2007-07-20, 02:03 AM
I swear, does anyone just play dnd to enjoy it anymore?

Sure thing.

This is not a list of things that people use at tables. This is a list of things that are either put in the game that are shtupid/overlooked or that are results of bizzare convolution ("malsynergy") of different things.

No sane player would even try to do it, unless he needs it for other reasons (ticking off DM chief among them).

And no sane DM would allow them.

Edit: And ninja'd with style. :smallcool:

Roderick_BR
2007-07-20, 10:12 AM
Yes it does.

When you are dead your HP drop to -10.
As your non lethal damage is never below 0 following rule aplies:




Note that the description of dying gives you a chance to be consious despite that effect, but that rule only applies whily dying.
Once your dead the normal rule takes over and you are unconsious.
And therefore, even if you are dead, you can make Reflex saves with a -5 Dex modifier :smalleek:

CASTLEMIKE
2007-07-20, 10:57 AM
Base Core: Charge attack builds. Diplomacy. Polymorph spell abuses. Wildshaping. Level 9 spellcasting. Sneak Attack. Sorcerer class fun to play poor wizard copy that doesn't lose anything for PRCing. Most monster PCs (Seriously the half orcs have it pretty bad in most games with prejudice a monster PC should generally have it worse).

Almost any feat that requires DM approval.

Things like:

The Spellfire Wielder general feat from MoF with a decent constitution particularly at low levels you can make a half divine ranged attack up to 400 feet up to your con level plus do some minimal healing and spell absorbtion.

Leadership feat.

Hidden Talent from EPH (Take Astral Construct or Charm Psionic with an psionic character).

Godsight from LEoF.

Magic in the Blood PGtF combined with a +2 LA template and LA buydown like half Fey and Phrenic.

Very good feats mechanically:

The new improved Mercantile Feat from PGtF not the older version in FRCS.

Persist Spell Feat with Turning CA.

Ultimate Magus PRC for casting more powerful Quickened Spells than standard counterparts at mid levels CM. IMO the mechanical restraints built into the PRC trying to limit level 9 spell access at level 20 was designed so it could be built around with the right feat selection. IMO if Wizards really didn't want PC having level 9 spells at level 9 it should have specifically said it applied the +10 to the lowest initial base core spell casting class starting the PRC (Not a PRC like Sublime Bard) level with highest base spellcasting class receiving the least benefit +7 levels to spellcasting.

It is just a matter of time until the Ultimate Cleric, Ultimate Druid, Ultimate Psion and Ultimate Mystic variants start turning up.

Ur Lord/Ur Priest PRC (CDDotF) with MT and level 9 spells at level 15 throw in an extra domain and bump up wisdom and your PC is casting 3 level 9 spells at level 15.

Gestalt rules only a +2 LA basically. LA buydown rules.

Saint +2 LA Template BoED, +2 Phrenic Template EPH, +2 LA Fey Template FF with LA buydown.

Vow of Poverty BOED depending on the campaign (Low magic campaigns and campaigns where enforcement of the Vow is rather lax from many posts I have seen. Groups of 5 seeing the treasure of the other 4 increased to 25% from 20% by PCs who subsidize the VoP PC who doesn't give away his share to the poor. In many of those games requiring making it a Vow of Austerity and Charity with 90% tithing (Improving your Ancestral Relic Simple Weapon instead of the current weapon bennies) and limiting possessions to old monk and ranger rules for magic items (no trading up and what you can carry on your person witohut magic) would be tougher on the PC and group despite being more relaxed than the existing Feat VoP.)

Inyssius Tor
2007-07-20, 01:32 PM
A Dustform* Incarnate Construct* creature gains +4 strength, a few other neat abilities, and changes type to humanoid for +0 LA; it loses all of the abilities and qualities of the base creature, though.

* Sandstorm
* Savage Species

Superglucose
2007-07-20, 04:13 PM
If your DM is a computer and doesn't use logic, it's possible to get infinite damage using the feats Improved Trip and Knockback.

There's nothing in the rules (that I've ever found) that prevents you from making a trip attempt on an already tripped opponent... and knockback says 'if you deal combat damage you may make a trip attempt as a free action...'

Granted, no DM with an extremley basic grasp of knowledge will let this fly, but it's still technically possible.