UMD Check Needed for a wizard to use a glibness scroll?

[primus380]

So i'm a bit confused on the UMD rules for scrolls as they relate to bard spells.
I have a player who is playing an evil wizard masquerading as a rogue and wants to use scrolls of glibness to keep his identity secret, my questions is what would the DC for that check be 26 or 27?
Also because he's a wizard would he need the check every time he uses the scroll or just the first time?

[ryu]

So i'm a bit confused on the UMD rules for scrolls as they relate to bard spells.
I have a player who is playing an evil wizard masquerading as a rogue and wants to use scrolls of glibness to keep his identity secret, my questions is what would the DC for that check be 26 or 27?
Also because he's a wizard would he need the check every time he uses the scroll or just the first time?

Okay first if he wants to use the spell repeatedly why is he not getting a wand of it? Wands are like... way more efficient for this.

[Zanos]

Scrolls are consumed when used, and he does need to roll the check everytime he wants to use a scroll of a spell not on his spell list.

The UMD check for scrolls is based on their caster level, and most scrolls are crafted at the minimum caster level. Since bards don't get 3rd level spells until level 7, the caster level of the scroll is seven. So the DC to use the scroll is 20+7 = 27. 525 gp per scroll, by the way. He might be better off with potions, which cost twice as much, but require no check to use.

[Eisfalken]

Scrolls are consumed when used, and he does need to roll the check everytime he wants to use a scroll of a spell not on his spell list.

The UMD check for scrolls is based on their caster level, and most scrolls are crafted at the minimum caster level. Since bards don't get 3rd level spells until level 7, the caster level of the scroll is seven. So the DC to use the scroll is 20+7 = 27. 525 gp per scroll, by the way. He might be better off with potions, which cost twice as much, but require no check to use.

He could just do a blind activation on DC 25, but it's a matter of 2 more points on the roll. Ideally, he can do this easily at around 8th level: UMD 11 ranks, +4 synergy from Spellcraft and Decipher Script if he gets them to 5 ranks each, maybe some Cha bonus, and an average roll of 10 on the check. At the very least, he's not gonna suffer a mishap (remember, skill checks that come up 1 are not auto-fail; he'd still be under the 10+ miss needed for mishap). FYI, you have to have a Cha 13 to even attempt this; glibness needs that to be cast even as a bard.

Actually, if you have UMD, the best option for any below-4th spell is a wand. UMD DC 20 to activate it, doesn't matter what your Cha is, and cost is around 315 gp per use of a 3rd-level spell, making it even cheaper than a scroll. Yes, you can end up burning a charge if you flub the skill roll, but it's still easier and way more economical than a scroll.

My personal suggestion? Consider an eternal wand for 2/day use at a cost of 10,900 gp. Why? Because you don't make UMD to activate any eternal wand if you are an arcane caster. Written right there in the description for the thing. It'll only last for 50 min. per use, but that's nearly an hour, and it's a one-time cost for 2/day forever usage. If you use this wand at least 21 times, you just paid the same cost as using a scroll that many times. The regular wand of this spell is still more economical, but only if you use all 50 charges, plus you can give an eternal wand to anyone capable of using arcane spells and they can get use from it, too.

FYI, this is why all of my arcane casters who aren't bards and can afford one try to get themselves an eternal wand with some kind of cure spell on it: it's not as efficient as a customized regular wand, but I don't gotta UMD to use it, and it's better than standing there wishing I had UMD or a cure spell on my class list.

[Rijan_Sai]

He could just do a blind activation on DC 25, but it's a matter of 2 more points on the roll. Ideally, he can do this easily at around 8th level: UMD 11 ranks, +4 synergy from Spellcraft and Decipher Script if he gets them to 5 ranks each, maybe some Cha bonus, and an average roll of 10 on the check.

Using just those numbers, it would actually be 19th level... UMD is cross-class for Wizards (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#wizard)


Class Skills

The wizard’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Yeah, I would definitely look into an Eternal Wand, or something similar!

[Crake]

Using just those numbers, it would actually be 19th level... UMD is cross-class for Wizards (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#wizard)



Yeah, I would definitely look into an Eternal Wand, or something similar!

There are a variety of ways to get UMD on your skill list, even if it's via multiclassing or PrCing into something with the skill.

Glibness is also on the beguiler spell list by the way, so if you got your scrolls from a beguiler, the CL would only be 6, making the DC 1 easier to hit, or, if your DM allows urban druids from dragon compendium, they can cast it too, and at CL5, so that'd make the DC even lower.

As for activating blindly, unlike activating a scroll properly, if you fail the check to activate blindly, you will lose the scroll and it'll blow up in your face, so I wouldn't recommend that unless you have some way to take 10 and auto-pass that check.

[Vaz]

Why would someone wanting to bluff people pull out a scroll and read from it? Seems inherently non roguelike and a super obvious tell that what they are doing isn't trust worthy.

[Zanos]

Glibness is 10 minutes per level, which is pretty long even at the urban druids caster level of 5. You cast it before you need to lie.

That same logic applies to casting glibness in general, by the way. Anyone with spellcraft could easily identitify what you're casting as a spell that gives you +30 to lying and determine you must be killed. Getting out and reading a parchment is a little easier to pass off then making a bunch of mystical gestures and doing your bard verbal components.

You'd need Still Silent(all bard spells have a verbal component) Glibness to get away with casting it in the open, probably, and even that won't save you against someone with (permanent) arcane sight, battlemagic perception, or a ring of spell battle.