blind sight help

[darewrecks]

Hello,
I get the mechanics of blind sight. It explains it well in combat. But what about outside of combat. I[m playing a blind character with blind sight.

"Blindsight never allows a creature to distinguish color or visual contrast. A creature cannot read with blindsight."

I get the color and not reading. Visual contrast is the difference in color and light? What does that mean to a blind person? Can my character see the difference between and elf and human?
What about dragons or other monsters?

My character was struck blind at 5 years old so that would make many things unknown to him. He wouldn't know what a dragon looks like.

How gimped outside of combat is someone with blind sight?

Can someone with blind sight make a knowledge check to know what creature it faces? Can he tell his companions apart? Can he identify a chair, building, or other objects?

"Deafening attacks thwart blindsight if it relies on hearing."

How do you determine if a particular blind sight relies on hearing?

Thanks!

[SangoProduction]

Hello,
I get the mechanics of blind sight. It explains it well in combat. But what about outside of combat. I[m playing a blind character with blind sight.

"Blindsight never allows a creature to distinguish color or visual contrast. A creature cannot read with blindsight."

I get the color and not reading. Visual contrast is the difference in color and light? What does that mean to a blind person? Can my character see the difference between and elf and human?
What about dragons or other monsters?

My character was struck blind at 5 years old so that would make many things unknown to him. He wouldn't know what a dragon looks like.

How gimped outside of combat is someone with blind sight?

Can someone with blind sight make a knowledge check to know what creature it faces? Can he tell his companions apart? Can he identify a chair, building, or other objects?

"Deafening attacks thwart blindsight if it relies on hearing."

How do you determine if a particular blind sight relies on hearing?

Thanks!

Generally, it means you can distinguish things in your range with line of effect to you, and what they are. But since you're not using light to detect the creatures, you don't get the information that light gives, such as color, or whether something is dark or well-lit.

If it says you are using hearing-based blindsight, then you are. Else, you aren't.

The exception is anyone who's trying to hide with the Darkstalker feat. They avoid your blindsight...somehow. Never explained. It just is. A wizard did it.

[OldTrees1]

Blindsight is an abstraction of a bunch of different abilities (hence that "if it relies on hearing" part). So what is your blindsight based off?

Your character sounds like a typical humanoid so I am going to guess that your blindsight is based off hearing. Specifically I think your listening improved(both in precision and by you paying more attention to it). So you see by noticing occluded sound as well as hearing motion.

An elf is a humanoid shaped wall that blocks sound and the elf's arms are those strings of noisy points in space that dangle away from the elf-wall. A human is like an elf but not as tall of a wall. Of course a short elf and a tall human would look similar.

As far as monsters go, you would essentially be trying to tell them apart from their general physicial shape and the sounds they(and their limbs) make. Although be warned that naturally supernaturally silent enemies(like incorporeal enemies) would be hard to notice.

However you are asking about things the rules do not speak of and so the best answer is "ask your DM?".

[darewrecks]

Thanks!
I take it since I cant read I wouldn't be able to notice runes or any details on walls or statues, etc?

[OldTrees1]

Thanks!
I take it since I cant read I wouldn't be able to notice runes or any details on walls or statues, etc?

Painted runes? No chance at all. Carved runes? Ask your DM. You might be able to notice (wind through a groove) but not recognize them.

[darewrecks]

Thanks OldTrees.
Well, we are having a discussion on what I can actually see via blind sight now. Would like some other opinions though.
Actually, my character has the blind oracle template from a 3rd party template book. I don't have it with me now but the description gave me the idea that it would be a combination of hearing as it gives me a +8 to hearing but also a 6th sense of noticing things but its not super descriptive. Maybe I can read every things frequency on some level. Maybe its a combination of smell, hearing, echo location, touch....but again, the only bonus I was given was a listen check but i could have swore it mentioned something related to a 6th sense or something....it would make sense considering the template.

[Douglas]

In general, blindsight gets you location and shape. Anything that location and shape would tell you, blindsight will tell you.


Can my character see the difference between and elf and human?
Blindsight would tell you that one humanoid-shaped figure has pointed ears and the other doesn't, that they have different body shapes and what those shapes are, etc. This would typically reveal the difference between elf and human.


What about dragons or other monsters?
You might not be able to tell a gold dragon from a red dragon, but a dragon and an angel would be easily distinguished.


How gimped outside of combat is someone with blind sight?
Very little. He can't do anything color-based, which includes most reading, but that's about it.


Can someone with blind sight make a knowledge check to know what creature it faces? Can he tell his companions apart? Can he identify a chair, building, or other objects?
Yes to all.

Blindsight is, functionally, a sense every bit as capable as normal sight in every regard except color and in most cases range, and more capable in some ways - it doesn't depend depend on lighting conditions and ignores invisibility and most concealment. That's why it's called blindsight.

For the less capable version that may seem more realistic and would still leave a blind character severely handicapped, see blindsense.

[Celestia]

You might not be able to tell a gold dragon from a red dragon, but a dragon and an angel would be easily distinguished.
Dragons do have differently shaped heads with different frills/horns. It won't be as easy or immediate for a blindsighted person to distinguish dragons, but, presumably, with ranks in Knowledge (Arcana), it could be done.


An elf is a humanoid shaped wall that blocks sound and the elf's arms are those strings of noisy points in space that dangle away from the elf-wall. A human is like an elf but not as tall of a wall. Of course a short elf and a tall human would look similar.
In D&D, elves are shorter than humans, not the other way around.

------

With blindsight, you're basically Daredevil. You can see just as well as a regular person, and in some cases, you can even see better. However, you can't distinguish color and can't read.

[OldTrees1]

In D&D, elves are shorter than humans, not the other way around.

O.O You're right! D&D humans are tall and D&D orcs are even taller(if half orcs are any indication).


The Daredevil comparison is very apt. Although like most superheroes his powers fluctuate based on the narrative demands of the author.

[Thaneus]

I assume blindsight nearly the same as Daredevils ability to change sound to visuals too.
It certainly does not need to be your hearing though, which has been enhanced this way. From fluff it feels more like the mentioned 6th sense overall.

But a Bonus of more then +4 on Listen is ridicules because most races with good hearing have +4 racial mod on listening only few exceptions have more.
Since there are no rules i can remember, concerning being blind (think about it, blind is a heal-able status) it should not hamper you much and make a character-concept based on this obsolete.

[Douglas]

On the subject of reading, this might technically not be RAW, but I would rule that the "A creature cannot read with blindsight." sentence is a clarifying example, not a rule in its own right. If a message is written by carving grooves in a surface, or laying out sticks arranged in a pattern, or any other means where location and shape information is enough, then I'd say someone with blindsight could read it. It's only ink, graphite, paint, etc. that blindsight can't read, because those depend on color.

[darewrecks]

Thanks a lot everyone. I appreciate the time to reply to my question. I will present this to the DM.