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View Full Version : Pathfinder How exactly do you build a Barbarian as a Grappler?



Linken
2017-01-13, 06:31 AM
I'm making a merfolk barbarian/bard gestalt in a campaign that's coming up. 18 Strength, 14 dexterity, 15 constitution, 16 charisma. I want her to be able to grapple well, but I don't know exactly how- I've never built a grappler before. Harpoon proficiency? A swap of the Bard gestalt to something else? I'm open to any ideas.

Hiro Quester
2017-01-13, 06:41 AM
High strength, ability to increase your size (enlarge person) and improved grapple feat would be a good start.

Ability to cast freedom of movement, or Heart of Water that can be discharged as a swift action to get freedom of movement, would also be useful.

Unfortunately, of those spells, only FoM is on the bard list.

Bards do get UMD as a class skill. So a wand of enlarge person would be useful (give it to your party wizard until you have enough UMD to use it yourself).

Linken
2017-01-13, 06:44 AM
High strength, ability to increase your size (enlarge person) and improved grapple feat would be a good start.

Ability to cast freedom of movement, or Heart of Water that can be discharged as a swift action to get freedom of movement, would also be useful.

Unfortunately, of those spells, only FoM is on the bard list.

Bards do get UMD as a class skill. So a wand of enlarge person would be useful (give it to your party wizard until you have enough UMD to use it yourself).

Well, more what I mean is this: can I use weapons while grappling?

So, I grapple, succeed. Next turn, can I attack using a one-handed weapon? For instance, a scizor? Or can I maintain the grapple and attack?

Also, maybe I could just go something like Sorcerer, instead.

Hiro Quester
2017-01-13, 10:21 AM
One Level of Monk will get you some useful goodies here: Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple both as bonus feats.

(You would have to tell an interesting backstory about once training to be a (lawful) monk before rebelling against the strictures and raging off to become a (unlawful) barbarian.

With IUAS you can lethally damage your opponent (unarmed strike damage) each time you make a successful check to maintain a grapple. And you can do this as many times as you have iterative attacks (due to BAB). And you use your grapple check each time, which can often be higher than your attack roll, and it doesn't decrease by 5 each attach in a round.

Improved Grapple adds +4 to your grapple checks, and it also means you don't take an AOO when initiating a grapple.

The other useful thing you can do in a grapple is pin your opponent (and if you choose prevent them from speaking) in place of your grapple check. This is great against the enemy mage who has not taken silent spell and still spell feats.

So when you attack the enemy, you make a melee touch attack (no attack of opportunity if you have improved grapple). you then make a grapple check to establish the grapple. If you have enough BAB to make another grapple check then you can also pin and gag them. Done. They are now helpless in your hold and (as long as your grapple checks maintain the hold and the pin) you can damage them or grapple them into unconsciousness as you wish.

You can use a (light) weapon to attack your opponent. But you take -4 on attack rolls to do so (that's why IUAS is so useful on a grappler).

One of the best resources on grappling is the Rules of the Game article All About Grappling (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050301a) that explains how grappling works and how it interacts with weapons and natural weapons, unarmed strikes etc.

Florian
2017-01-13, 10:46 AM
I'm making a merfolk barbarian/bard gestalt in a campaign that's coming up. 18 Strength, 14 dexterity, 15 constitution, 16 charisma. I want her to be able to grapple well, but I don't know exactly how- I've never built a grappler before. Harpoon proficiency? A swap of the Bard gestalt to something else? I'm open to any ideas.

Grappling is one of those very powerful options that is actually not worth it. If you still want to do it, gestalt with a shape-changing class to get around the limitation with actually finishing off your grappled victim. Barbarian (Invulnerable eager)// Druid is actually not bad for this.

stack
2017-01-13, 11:59 AM
Hiro Questor - PF tag. Grappling works based on CMB vs CMD and improved grapple is only +2. Monk dip could save a few feats, unmonk is better for a dip on a barbarian unless you dice dive into archetypes (maneuver master for 2 grapples a round at level 1).

How late is the game going? In early levels, barb can grapple well, but lacks the tools late game to overcome hard counters like freedom of movement. Also, you will be taking enemies out more slowly than just hitting them with a weapon, generally speaking.

Psyren
2017-01-13, 01:43 PM
I would do Primalist Bloodrager rather than Barbarian and Skald rather than Bard. You get cha-synergy from both sides' spellcasting, and some nice goodies to aid your grappling like Monstrous Physique and Aberrant Bloodline. There isn't even an action economy cost because you can buff yourself while entering your Bloodrage followed by performing. In addition, you gain synergy between your halves because you can turn your performance rounds into even more rage, taking the better bonuses. Both of your halves can also cast during a rage.

Hiro Quester
2017-01-13, 01:51 PM
Sorry. I didn't see the PF tag. Forget what I said.