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Zeful
2007-07-19, 08:49 AM
Okay I taught some of the basics of D&D at school and interest exploded, now I've 14 people who want to play and I've no idea how to do this.

Help me!

Nevar
2007-07-19, 08:57 AM
It's going to suck but pretty much you'll have to whittle your group down especially since you are new. Even if you aren't new you would have to create at least a couple of groups. You may want to see if any of them are semi expieranced and get them brought up to where they can DM for the left out people.

Tyger
2007-07-19, 08:58 AM
Okay I taught some of the basics of D&D at school and interest exploded, now I've 14 people who want to play and I've no idea how to do this.

Help me!


2 groups. Minimum. You do not want to even contemplate the chaos that would result from a 14 person party. Not the IC stuff, that could actually be fun. But trying to keep 14 players all interested and engaged at the same time...

That would be akin to trying to train a dozen kittens with ADD hopped up on speed to play the violin. *shudders*

On thing that worked really well for me once was a "competitive" adventure. We had 10 players and broke it into 2 groups. For a short while, both groups actually had the same goal, and were essentially competing against each other. Worked really well, but it did require a great deal of creativity on everyone's part. Had a blast with it. I wouldn't recommend it for novice players, but once they get some experience, go to town!

Kurald Galain
2007-07-19, 09:01 AM
Three groups, not two. For starters, have everyone create a level-1 character (PHB only!), grab a low-level module, and have each group of 4-5 people play through it for one or two sessions.

Based on that, there'll probably be some people who change their mind about participating, some people who want to give DM'ing a try, and maybe some friends dragged in.

Based on that, get yourself a party of 4-5 players who match reasonably well (e.g. not all fighters), and give the rest to the other DMs that inevitably spring up.

DrummingDM
2007-07-19, 09:01 AM
Split 'em up. 3 smaller groups - 2 with 5 players, and 1 with 4. Run each independently of the others. Watch for players who seem to grasp the rules quicker than others, and encourage those to DM, giving them each their own group when you think they're up to it/interested in it.

Other than that...the only other suggestion I have is to get ready for some really SLOOOOOOOOOOOW combat.

Edit: Simu'd.

giblina
2007-07-19, 09:10 AM
Dig up some good published adventures and teach a few of them how to DM.

Break them up into 2 groups with 6 players and 1 DM in each group, and go back and forth between the groups and assist both of them.

That way everyone gets to play, and you're also introducing some DMs into the world and not just players.

Hilight the fact that the DM gets to run the bad guys and try to eat the PCs and I'm sure some will volunteer :)

- Syll

Corolinth
2007-07-19, 09:17 AM
I'm pretty sure the original poster wants to play, too. (Running the game is a form of playing.) Splitting them up into two groups, each with a DM, and running back and forth assisting both probably isn't what he wants to do.

How much time do you have to play? You're looking at splitting them into three groups if you don't cut a ton of them outright. Running three groups is going to eat up a lot of time with D&D. Time that you may not have.

BlackStaticWolf
2007-07-19, 09:27 AM
I've been in that very situation before. Not with DnD though... with the d10 Legend of the Five Rings system.

I believe I had somewhere in the neighborhood of 11 players. My solution was to promote one of the players to my co-GM and structure the game in a very different fashion from your typical tabletop RPG.

I had to exert a little more control over character creation than I normally do to make the game work:

1) I required the players to break up into teams of two when making characters.
2) The 2-man teams were required to be of the same clan, with no overlapping between teams.
3) One member of the team had to be a courtier/socialite type character. The other member had to be the courtier's yojimbo (bodyguard).

Once characters were made, we ended up with five teams. Here's where it got fun... see, the different teams were NOT working together. They were, in fact, working AGAINST each other in a courtier/socialite type environment. Each "adventure" the individual teams would receive a variety of instructions and objectives to accomplish from their superiors within their clan and it was up to them to accomplish the objectives... which almost always ran counter to the objective of at least one other team.


Now, even with that break down (few NPCs, with most actual conflict being roleplaying between players), that number of players would be unmanageable for a single GM.

That's where my co-GM came in. He was the longest standing and most experienced player in the group, so he was an excellent choice to help run things. Because the teams would frequently "split-up" to accomplish objectives, I gave the co-GM the responsibility of running all "side action." while I handled the main group.

We'd have our laptops setup with AIM and send IMs back and forth throughout the session with updates on what was going on with the various groups of players.


It sounds complicated... and it was. But because we were willing to design the campaign itself around having that many players, it worked... and it was fun.

Tormsskull
2007-07-19, 10:06 AM
Yeah, 14 players is just way too many for them each to enjoy the game. I'd ask for volunteers for DMs, and then try to teach those volunteers (ideally 2 or 3) the basics of DMing. Then break out into 3 separate groups.

If that is a no no, form 3 separate groups with you as the DM, each group meeting on a different day of the week (assuming you have that kind of time that you are able/willing to invest).

Good luck.

JEntropy
2007-07-19, 10:11 AM
I've played in groups these big, and they aren't fun. In my experience, the spotlight tends to hover over about 4-5 characters, while everyone else is a little marginalized.

It sounds like, overall, you have 15 people. To me, that means three four-man groups and three DM's. Since it sounds like most of the people are new, you should try and take the other two DM's under your wing and give them a hand, when possible.

For an added twist, have all three groups be adventuring within the same game world, and (sometimes? doing it often would disrupt continuity, but maybe at the conclusion of minor arcs) rotate DM's.

Jimbob
2007-07-19, 10:46 AM
In my eyes, 2 groups with 1 dm and 6 players, every one can be what ever they want from the PHB, start them off on some thing simple and build from there really, and if that does nto put them off start talking about the cost of the books, that might work lol

Ethdred
2007-07-19, 11:23 AM
In addition, do the character roll up in advance, preferably with each player separately. Once you know what everyone's playing you can split the groups up, so you don't get everyone in one group wanting to be the wizard. Of course, you're bound to get some overlap, and people won't be nearly optomised, so pitch the encounters below average - you don't want a TPK first time out.

One thing you could do to learn the mechanics is have everyone play a fighter type and then do a 2 sided arena battle. So you could start off at a higher level and encourage some of the players to learn specific techniques (you, learn grappling; you, get a reach weapon and combat reflexes). Maybe you pre-gen the characters and give them out randomly. Since it's only a one off, people won't mind if their guy is taken down. Or you could say that the magic of the arena means when someone is taken to 0 HP they get a full heal and the losing side is the one that uses up their X free heals first - that way, no-one is eliminated and getting bored watching from the side lines.

But after that, split them into groups!! (You may have a few drop outs so it could be manageable to keep the two teams as the groups)

Zim
2007-07-19, 12:56 PM
Splitting up into a bunch of smaller groups is good advice. The DM rarely has fun when he's trying to keep the attention of more than six people.

Maybe you can get some direct support from WotC or one of the other D20 companies. Start a league or join the RPGA. They can probably help to outfit you with some good introductory adventures (the one from the first boxed set is great) and some swag.

Beware of people who are only casually interested in the game now and then fail to show up on game night. It's not fair to the other players or DM when you have to cancel a session because only half the party showed up. Make sure that everyone understands that there is a commitment that needs to be made for multiple days/nights; sort of like a club that depends on its members showing up. Strike that -it's exactly like a club! Again with the league forming idea.

I also suggest implimenting some sort of code of conduct for players/PC's. RPGA-style guidelines are a good start (character creation guides, rules of behaviour, no evil alignments etc.). This will prevent potential conflicts (player or character) and ensure that everyone is playing on the same level.

Dark Knight Renee
2007-07-19, 01:31 PM
Although I've never had to deal bunches of players, in my games each player (and the DM) almost always has multiple PCs at once, and I heartedly agree with everyone who says to split them up into groups. I have had to deal with 14+ PCs at once, on numerous occasions, and it isn't fun - not even in a game without sluggish D&D combat.

magicwalker
2007-07-19, 01:49 PM
2 or 3 groups, run them in different starting positions in the same campaign world. Have their adventures run simultaneous in the world, if they ever come to a point where they would come in contact with eachother play -> play them all at the same time.

I'm think something along of the lines of... Team Good, Team Evil, Team Whatever.. your story draws them to separate objectives or maybe to even rout eachother. That way your players wittle themselves down with you having to do anything, but direct their swords. =)

Kurald Galain
2007-07-19, 01:57 PM
Splitting up into a bunch of smaller groups is good advice. The DM rarely has fun when he's trying to keep the attention of more than six people.

Or, in some cases, the DM has plenty of fun dealing with whatever player(s) is/are "active" at the moment (assuming the party splits up at some point, which is not too unlikely) or with whatever player(s) have the biggest mouth (if the party does not split up) - and the players that are not "active" get bored.

Indon
2007-07-19, 02:31 PM
Okay I taught some of the basics of D&D at school and interest exploded, now I've 14 people who want to play and I've no idea how to do this.

Help me!

5-7 PC's.

Of the remainder of your players, each of them gets either an animal companion or a familiar, or an intelligent magical item (be most careful with this one).

Okay, so maybe it's not a very helpful idea. But it is an awesome one, don't you think?

Kiero
2007-07-19, 02:47 PM
Nothing to add but echo: three groups.

And perhap, since there are people trying it out, cut out chargen. Give them pregens and run through a one-shot to cut down on the overheads. Also means people won't be getting bored waiting around in what they'd thought was "play" time.

If they really groove on it, then when you start a proper game, you can introduce them to chargen as well.

Codes of conduct, all that kind of stuff - overkill. You're more likely to put people off than anything else. Treat the first session as an experimental throw-away. If people don't like it and don't come back after, no big deal. But don't go and put in the effort required to start up three continuous campaigns. You'll likely end up disappointed and frustrated if none of them are necessarily committed yet.

JEntropy
2007-07-19, 02:57 PM
5-7 PC's.

Of the remainder of your players, each of them gets either an animal companion or a familiar, or an intelligent magical item (be most careful with this one).

Okay, so maybe it's not a very helpful idea. But it is an awesome one, don't you think?

Just get someone to take the Leadership feat, and have everyone else play followers and a cohort :smalltongue:

Playing an animal sounds cool, but if you really stick the low INT to them, it won't be all that much fun.

Indon
2007-07-19, 03:43 PM
Playing an animal sounds cool, but if you really stick the low INT to them, it won't be all that much fun.

Familiars get pretty high INT pretty quick, though for Druids you'd have to houserule something in about being Awakened.

Draz74
2007-07-19, 03:45 PM
Just run a comic Monty-Python style adventure, where at least one character dies every session. Usually in ridiculous ways. :smallamused: Might want to tell the players not to get too attached to their characters right from the beginning.

Just kidding. Probably won't help, unless you want to solve the problem by scaring away (i.e. offending) some of the players. Although at least no one would be upset that you weren't giving their character enough individual attention if the mortality rate is that high. :smallsmile:

Korias
2007-07-19, 03:55 PM
Divide them into 3 Groups, and get 3 Adventure Modules.
That way, you wont get confused about which is doing what if your running two groups on one model.

Make sure to stick to core books only. By Core, I mean Players Hand book and DMG, along with the First Monster Manual.

If you dont want to shell out cash for an adventure, get a PDF Reader and get some of the free ones from the WOTC site.

Zeful
2007-07-19, 05:22 PM
Hi, I'm the prospective DM for the 14 players. I'll adress each of the concerns in order.

Party Size: I've been in a game in which there were 12 other players, it ran so hellishly slow, that I'm never running a group over 6... EVER! This of course means I'm stuck with at least 3 groups, 2 5 player groups and one 4 player group. But it's come to my attention that some may not acctually be all that interested, so I might have one group after all's said and done.

My time: The reason I wanted to start the game is because I've nothing else to do all summer, and I don't want to be bored, no offense to the wonderful peoples here but I don't want to just sit around in front of my computer.

Other DMs: It'd be nice if anybody had any real experience with the rules, but right now the most expeirenced player is a WoW player, so it'll be a few months before that's a viable option, sadly.

Published Adventures: I've no job and thus no money, so buying adventures isn't an option really. Korias can you give me the site for these free published adventures, I can't find them, and I've looked (not particularilly hard but I did.)

Thank you for all your advise.

Kiero
2007-07-19, 05:28 PM
Published Adventures: I've no job and thus no money, so buying adventures isn't an option really. Korias can you give me the site for these free published adventures, I can't find them, and I've looked (not particularilly hard but I did.)

Thank you for all your advise.

You know there's shed-loads of free AD&D2e materials on Wizards.com right? You said no money but lots of time, I'm sure there's some easily-found stuff for conversion if you're wedded to the idea of doing it literally.

Diggorian
2007-07-19, 05:46 PM
Free D&D 3.x Adventures at Wizard's site. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20030530b)

Zim
2007-07-19, 05:53 PM
WotC has a bunch of 3rd edition free adventures in their downloads section. Also try the RPGA links and Necromancer Games site. Barring that, spend a couple of bucks on a copy of Dungeon. I know the $ situation is tight, but it's less than $10, and worth every penny.

Zeful
2007-07-19, 05:54 PM
Keiro: I'm sure there's alot of D&D adventures on the wizards site but I've never acctually had a reason to look before so I have no idea where to look.

Diggorian: Thanks for the link, it's already proven useful.

Kiero
2007-07-19, 05:56 PM
Keiro: I'm sure there's alot of D&D adventures on the wizards site but I've never acctually had a reason to look before so I have no idea where to look.

Googling "wizards.com" and "downloads" would have gotten you the page in moments. It's here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads).

Diggorian
2007-07-19, 06:14 PM
Diggorian: Thanks for the link, it's already proven useful.

No problem, game on. 3 groups to DM ... good luck.

Fawsto
2007-07-19, 06:14 PM
Dude, I have vast experience with large groups, actualy I am DMing a 10 players group and playing with a 13 players group. The systems are, respectively, D&D and WhiteWolf's Storyteller.

I've got a few advice for you. If you are inexperienced, give it up. It wont work. The first time you DM is quite a little bit hard to get used to (ok, some people go smooth on this part of RPGing, but some don't), so you need to feel absolutely comfortable, and a 14 "eager to play players" group is far from being comfortable, and might ruin your first DM experience.

If, however, you decide to proceed, split that group in as many 4-5 groups, being that the best number to DM, mostly because everyone will have their own roles in every group. And this is how experience system is based on, so you won't have to calculate the XP for a 10 PJs vs. Monsters battle.

Make it easier for you, encourage the using of the 4 basic classes, Fighter, Rogue, Cleric and Sorcerer (believe me, if they are non-experienced players you will feel reliefed if they use a Sorcerer instead of a Wizard). Or at least try the "Guy to take damage", "Guy to use skills", "Guy to heal wounds" and "Guy to use magic". It is much easier to DM while you don't need to compensate the lack of experience of the new players by inserting several NPCs on the game. How to do that? The easiest way is to "give prizes" to the groups taht follow this config. Extra money or equipment is the best choice.

Don't DM to all of them at once. You may DM for them in the same campaing world, but don't even think on gathering all of them to play at once. Make a session with every group separatly.

Last advice: Keep calm, remember, you are the DM, follow the Rule 0, you have the last word. But, whatsoever, don't be a Tyran. Understood?

Follow this and you should do just fine. Good luck.

Edit: Ohh yeah, follow their advice: Try finding a ready campaing to play, after that take the control of the world when you are used to teh groups.

Superglucose
2007-07-19, 10:15 PM
Oh, five characters can be too much. I'd hold a couple of trial sessions with you DMing, maybe if one of them is interested in DMing you help him. 14 people doesn't mean that 14 people show up. And the first two meets will be painful if you do it this way, but I've learned that there are several people who will just make the party suck (case in point: right now we have a guy who wouldn't follow the party on an adventure to secure a treasure just because he didn't know the person who gave us the adventure. Now he's the only member of the party who doesn't want to take on the local thieve's guild... he's driving us INSANE), and many young DMs give up with these people in the party.

Also, make sure you have a PHB open to the section of combat at all times.

Jarlax
2007-07-19, 10:29 PM
Okay I taught some of the basics of D&D at school and interest exploded, now I've 14 people who want to play and I've no idea how to do this.

Help me!

take in as many people as your are comfortable playing with, however many that is. send the rest to wizards or a local gaming supplies store to try and get themselves set up with a group. if the store doesn't run their own then they can ask the owner if anyone else is looking or if they can advertise.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20030530b
here is a link to the wizards website list of adventures.

Xuincherguixe
2007-07-19, 10:45 PM
While a 14 player game might be interesting, seems like thats just too many.

Break up the groups. Though it might be interesting if the membership between groups shifted, and/or one parties actions could affect the setting. I got some flash backs to long ago when I was playing Final Fantasy 3 (or 6 depending on how you see these things). You could be a rag tag group of rebels fighting the evil king.

Or something.


But 14 players at once is too unmanageable.

Dairun Cates
2007-07-20, 12:49 AM
Step 1: Weep openly
Step 2: Split group into 3
Step 3: Find two people out of 14 that are insane enough to try GM'ing.
Step 4: Recruit them as GM's after you teach them the system
Step 5: Pray
Step 6: Run 3 games with over half of your GM's being inexperienced until you can find experienced GM's.
Step 7: Profit.

Dean Fellithor
2007-07-20, 04:39 AM
2 groups. Minimum. You do not want to even contemplate the chaos that would result from a 14 person party. Not the IC stuff, that could actually be fun. But trying to keep 14 players all interested and engaged at the same time...

That would be akin to trying to train a dozen kittens with ADD hopped up on speed to play the violin. *shudders*


get someone to Co-DM for him, it'd help: Co-DMs make everything easier.

paigeoliver
2007-07-20, 04:50 AM
3.5 D&D becomes a nightmare about the time the 8th player is added. Anything happening in rounds slows to a terrible crawl that just gets worse and worse and worse as you add more players. Math would have you assume that an 8 player table takes twice as long to go through a round as a 4 player table. But reality has shown me that it is 5 to 10 times as long. The slower it is going the less attention everybody starts playing, the more side conversations get started, the more people break in and tell storied mid combat, the more people get up to take breaks, and the longer it takes people to decide on their actions. I have seen a 10 person table in action, averaging well over an hour per combat round.

6 people is OK if it is a very roleplay heavy game with an experienced gamemaster. Otherwise stick with 3 or 4.

If you really want to run 10+ players than you are going to have to play Castles and Crusades or Becmi D&D. 3.5 is just way too slow to even consider it.

Although, one little detail, the exact amount of players before the game slows to a crawl is a variable number that is highly dependent on the number of spellcasting characters, rules lawyers, time consuming combat builds, anecdote reciters and slow players at the table.

AslanCross
2007-07-20, 10:56 AM
Urgh, this is what happened to me. Lots of people expressed interest, but I could tell who really was interested and who wasn't. I just took those who were excited and could come up with character concepts off the top of their head, and those who were essentially just RPing themselves I didn't talk to anymore.

That still left me with two 6-person groups. One is doing well, the other one is suffering from a metagamer who does not have a very good grasp of the rules.