Clever uses of Animate Dead

[Harrumphreys]

Hello all,

As an aspiring necromancer, what enterprising tasks have you had a cohort of zombies or skeletons accomplish besides rampaging through villages and gnashing at the living?

Administer healing potions to downed colleagues, dig ditches around the camp before a long rest, pretend to be dead casualties then rise from the ground, etc

I feel like there is so much more these permanent servants can accomplish, compared to something like Conjure Animals that is good for single combat.

Thoughts?

[Dalebert]

My illusionist uses Seeming to disguise his skeletal archers as not-undead so they can be with him in public without making a scene. If you make scarves over their mouths as part of the disguise, you can even have them talk via Minor Illusion.

[Fishyninja]

My illusionist uses Seeming to disguise his skeletal archers as not-undead so they can be with him in public without making a scene. If you make scarves over their mouths as part of the disguise, you can even have them talk via Minor Illusion.

Following on from this with minor illusion or disguise you could turn them into body doubles.

Why not hire them out to farmers to help bring in crops for the season, or hire them out as meat shields for adventurers and mercs. Get them to act as a military decoy sending the enemy army in one direction while you and your party sneak in.

[Dalebert]

Following on from this with minor illusion or disguise you could turn them into body doubles.

Yes. I've considered doing this. I ended up not because I'm always on a Broom of Flying and it's fairly pointless in my case. In many cases, it might at least absorb the first ranged attack toward the wizardy-looking scary caster dude by smart enemies.


Why not hire them out to farmers to help bring in crops for the season, or hire them out as meat shields for adventurers and mercs. Get them to act as a military decoy sending the enemy army in one direction while you and your party sneak in.

Because that's really dangerous or at least impractical because the spell usually needs to be renewed before 24 hours or they revert to mindless violent undead attacking everything in sight. Finger of Death zombies don't have that limit but I can't imagine a caster of that level wanting to fiddle with the paltry income he could gain from such endeavors.

[Fishyninja]

Because that's really dangerous or at least impractical because the spell usually needs to be renewed before 24 hours or they revert to mindless violent undead attacking everything in sight. Finger of Death zombies don't have that limit but I can't imagine a caster of that level wanting to fiddle with the paltry income he could gain from such endeavors.
Here's the clever bit with the hired work force.....the party then has to go clear up the corpses, more payment and then they can try to persuade the villages that the bodies are good fertiliser.....*continues digging hole*

[Vogonjeltz]

Following on from this with minor illusion or disguise you could turn them into body doubles.

Why not hire them out to farmers to help bring in crops for the season, or hire them out as meat shields for adventurers and mercs. Get them to act as a military decoy sending the enemy army in one direction while you and your party sneak in.

Well the requirement to hang out with them all season and direct their every move might be one reason, if you had to be away for more than 24 hours you might return to a bunch of dead farmers.

Ah too slow with the response. Also the risk of an angry mob when someone goes to shake ones hand or whatever and discovers it's really some vile undead!

The risk of blowback on such a venture can't possibly be worth the minor supplemental income and the startup/maintenance.

[asmartfellow]

NEcromancer in our party animated an Adult Black Dragon. Hollowed out the chest cavity and slung a hammock between the rib cages. Used it as transportation. Good times.

[Dalebert]

Yeah, even at tier 2, the reqt before you can make undead, you just make exponentially more money adventuring to justify the petty change you'd get hiring out your zombies.

[Joe the Rat]

Hey, new recruits!

What?



Pocket Army: Animate up as many goblin skeletons as will fit in a bag of holding. (Master Class: animate what fits in a Portable Hole). They might even still have Nimble Escape. Just don't forget to open it up and recast once a day.

Indiscriminant Mayhem: As above, but skip the recast. Fly over your enemies and dump out 60 cubic feet of angry skeletons.

Who Needs Find Steed?: 2-4 Zombies could pull a cart, or carry a palanquin nonstop. What you lack in land speed you make up for in not having to stop for anything. Use Tritons and a tub-bottomed vehicle for amphibious transport.
A Small necromancer could use skeletons for better speed.

[JellyPooga]

- Before animation (or after...it's just easier before), put some mirrors and a candle-holder/oil reservoir+wick inside the skull. Walking Bulleye(s+nose+mouth) Lantern. Use Continual Flame directly on the skull for the METAL look.

- Backpacks. Everyone forgets a skeleton can wear a backpack.

- (in a similar vein) "The Magazine": Why carry your own quivers? Get a skeleton to do it for you.

- "The Powder Keg": Skeleton + Alchemists Fire (...LOTS of alchemists fire) = :smallamused:

- "The Butler": Polish up a skeleton (perhaps paint it, maybe even silver-plate it if you're looking for something to do with your cash), give it a bow-tie and have it as your personal man-servant, fetching the brandy and your smoking jacket, lighting cigars, taking your coat, that sort of thing. Just because it's an unholy abomination against nature, doesn't mean it can't scrub up and look good in public.

[Vogonjeltz]

- Before animation (or after...it's just easier before), put some mirrors and a candle-holder/oil reservoir+wick inside the skull. Walking Bulleye(s+nose+mouth) Lantern. Use Continual Flame directly on the skull for the METAL look.

- Backpacks. Everyone forgets a skeleton can wear a backpack.

- (in a similar vein) "The Magazine": Why carry your own quivers? Get a skeleton to do it for you.

- "The Powder Keg": Skeleton + Alchemists Fire (...LOTS of alchemists fire) = :smallamused:

- "The Butler": Polish up a skeleton (perhaps paint it, maybe even silver-plate it if you're looking for something to do with your cash), give it a bow-tie and have it as your personal man-servant, fetching the brandy and your smoking jacket, lighting cigars, taking your coat, that sort of thing. Just because it's an unholy abomination against nature, doesn't mean it can't scrub up and look good in public.

I like the last one for some kind of classy underworld villain who had their muscle to get incinerated, instead of paying to revive them, they animated the body on the cheap and are like, I'll bring him back someday...probably.

[Dalebert]

One of my DMs wouldn't let my skeletons do much of anything besides attack. She didn't consider them smart enough to follow a command like "administer a healing potion to that guy passed out over there". I doubt she'd let them light cigars and stuff either. That bugs me. I've heard arguments that D&D is all about combat and now I'm starting to believe it. "How dare you attempt to use that spell for something utility-oriented rather than strictly for killing things?"

[Joe the Rat]

One of my DMs wouldn't let my skeletons do much of anything besides attack. She didn't consider them smart enough to follow a command like "administer a healing potion to that guy passed out over there". I doubt she'd let them light cigars and stuff either. That bugs me. I've heard arguments that D&D is all about combat and now I'm starting to believe it. "How dare you attempt to use that spell for something utility-oriented rather than strictly for killing things?"

Given that you can get most of that utility out of a 1st level ritual spell that doesn't try to kill you if you forget to maintain it, it's a weak argument. I'd also argue the ability to maintain and use a bow is a complex enough task that basic porter and footman roles should be easy. You just have to tell them exactly what to do - Learning is not exactly on the list of minion undead traits.

[JellyPooga]

I doubt she'd let them light cigars and stuff either.

"Attack the end of my cigar with this small flame!"
"Attack this coat hook with the collar of my coat!"
"Attack my shoulders, gently, with my smoking jacket!"
"Attack the air in my glass with this upended bottle of brandy!"

Everything can be an "attack" if you want it to be...:smalltongue:

[Aryjna]

NEcromancer in our party animated an Adult Black Dragon. Hollowed out the chest cavity and slung a hammock between the rib cages. Used it as transportation. Good times.

That could be amusing, but going by the books you can't animate anything other than skeletons and zombies, CR 1/2 if I remember correctly, as found in the monster manual.

Edit: I am talking about the animate dead spell. Though even with higher level spells all you can do is create specific undead creatures as far as I know.

[Joe the Rat]

That could be amusing, but going by the books you can't animate anything other than skeletons and zombies, CR 1/2 if I remember correctly, as found in the monster manual.

Edit: I am talking about the animate dead spell. Though even with higher level spells all you can do is create specific undead creatures as far as I know.
That's been a grumping point for me and my resident necromancer. To open options, and limit shenanigans, here's what we came up with:

Non-humanoid type: +1 slot level to animate, maintains as normal.
Larger creatures: +1 slot level per size category over Medium, counts as double per size category in maintenance. No discounts for tiny.

So animating the skeleton of a Yuan Ti Malison would take a 4th level slot (Medium sized, +1 for Monstrosity), and counts as one creature for control maintenance.
Animating a Hill Giant Zombie takes a 6th level slot (+1 for Giant Type, +2 for Huge Size), and counts as four creatures for control maintenance.

[Zene]

Following on from this with minor illusion or disguise you could turn them into body doubles.

Oh my god... An Illusionist/Sorcerer with body doubles via Animate Dead+Seeming+Minor Illusion, and casting in battle with Subtle metamagic... Like an extreme mirror image! The enemies would have no idea who the real caster is.

I guess the only problem is, if they use their action to inspect the illusion and make the check, it sees through all the doubles in one shot.

[Fishyninja]

It's a good thought though.

[Flashy]

Oh my god... An Illusionist/Sorcerer with body doubles via Animate Dead+Seeming+Minor Illusion, and casting in battle with Subtle metamagic... Like an extreme mirror image! The enemies would have no idea who the real caster is.

I guess the only problem is, if they use their action to inspect the illusion and make the check, it sees through all the doubles in one shot.

You'd also have to only cast spells with no visible source. Fireball, Lightning Bolt, ray spells, etc would all still originate from your character.

[Dalebert]

You'd also have to only cast spells with no visible source. Fireball, Lightning Bolt, ray spells, etc would all still originate from your character.

Yes, but from which body part of your character? Your hands are at your sides.

This has nothing to do with what we're talking about. I just felt compelled to ask.

[BillyBobShorton]

The minor illusion is a great idea. I'd totally allow it, but a stickler DM might state the spell can mimic sounds, utterances, and words, but not full sentences or speech that can be carried as a fluent conversation, and your proximity/range, always spurting some magical incantation out befoee the skele-puppet replies to a question could become obvious.

[Mith]

That's been a grumping point for me and my resident necromancer. To open options, and limit shenanigans, here's what we came up with:

Non-humanoid type: +1 slot level to animate, maintains as normal.
Larger creatures: +1 slot level per size category over Medium, counts as double per size category in maintenance. No discounts for tiny.

So animating the skeleton of a Yuan Ti Malison would take a 4th level slot (Medium sized, +1 for Monstrosity), and counts as one creature for control maintenance.
Animating a Hill Giant Zombie takes a 6th level slot (+1 for Giant Type, +2 for Huge Size), and counts as four creatures for control maintenance.

Stealing.

On the subject of undead controlling.

1) Would you rule a combination of ritual and spell slot consumption that allows one to make other undead such as Flame Skulls? I would say that the ritual involves expending the spell slots the Flameskull will possess, as well as a Create Undead Spell. Now I haven't run the numbers of how many spell slots that becomes, so it might be excessive. But a balance can be that you can have multiple spell casters in on the ritual. Bonus points if one of the helpers becomes the source of the Flame Skull and dies at the end of the ritual of Spontaneous Combustion.

2) Would it be too much power to allow a sufficiently powerful Necromancer to craft a magic item that allows them to control more Undead? Supposedly the item has so many charges of Animate/Create Undead that it regains every 24 hours that allows it to maintain control over the undead under it's control.

[Slayn82]

If you created the skeletons, a few chains, a decent cage or a locked room can keep them contained while you don't have need of them. This allows you to hoard quite a bit of servants, and you can force your enemies into a gauntlet of them.

A bunch of uncontrolled undead chained to a wheel can make a decent mill, while each skeleton pushes ahead to get at some sacrificial lamb.

Wagons full of undead can be unleashed against a target, as long as your own troops can be kept outside the undead view and you can attract their attention to your target. Fog spells are good and thematic for obscuring your troops for this purpose.

Usually the waves of undead form the Vanguard of the attack, trying to demoralize the enemy, and force them to spend area of effect spells against the disposable undead instead of against better, more vital troops. Otherwise, if you have good mobility, the undead can be released to engage pursuers.

[tkuremento]

If you created the skeletons, a few chains, a decent cage or a locked room can keep them contained while you don't have need of them. This allows you to hoard quite a bit of servants, and you can force your enemies into a gauntlet of them.

Sounds like a mass pitting from Dwarf Fotress~ I love it

[Dalebert]

The minor illusion is a great idea. I'd totally allow it, but a stickler DM might state the spell can mimic sounds, utterances, and words, but not full sentences or speech that can be carried as a fluent conversation, and your proximity/range, always spurting some magical incantation out befoee the skele-puppet replies to a question could become obvious.

Minor Illusion is only somatic and material. Also, you can make any sounds within the noise limit. There's no reason to say it can't be a conversation unless the DM is just arbitrarily nerfing it with a house rule.

[Tanarii]

Wagons full of undead can be unleashed against a target, as long as your own troops can be kept outside the undead view and you can attract their attention to your target. Fog spells are good and thematic for obscuring your troops for this purpose.

Usually the waves of undead form the Vanguard of the attack, trying to demoralize the enemy, and force them to spend area of effect spells against the disposable undead instead of against better, more vital troops. Otherwise, if you have good mobility, the undead can be released to engage pursuers.
Okay, I'm stealing this for an attack on a town IMC. It'd only wake a week or so for a lvl 6 necromancer to prep a couple of wagon-full of zombies & skeletons, then have his apprentices cover his mercs in a fog cloud before having his controlled undead open them up facing the town ...

Question is, would the Necromancer buff to his animated dead still apply once they are uncontrolled?

Edit: way I read it the Necromancer buff occurs when you animate them. So it should apply even if you lose control.

[MeeposFire]

One of my DMs wouldn't let my skeletons do much of anything besides attack. She didn't consider them smart enough to follow a command like "administer a healing potion to that guy passed out over there". I doubt she'd let them light cigars and stuff either. That bugs me. I've heard arguments that D&D is all about combat and now I'm starting to believe it. "How dare you attempt to use that spell for something utility-oriented rather than strictly for killing things?"

Is your DM under the impression that skeletons are still mindless? I ask because they are int 6 which means they are smart enough by definition to be able to use artificer infusions. They are certainly smart enough to follow basic instructions such as pour this potion down this guys throat.

[SharkForce]

Wagons full of undead can be unleashed against a target, as long as your own troops can be kept outside the undead view and you can attract their attention to your target. Fog spells are good and thematic for obscuring your troops for this purpose.

stuff them into containers designed to be broken easily from external damage, but strong against internal damage.

now fire them out of catapults :)

[JoeJ]

stuff them into containers designed to be broken easily from external damage, but strong against internal damage.

now fire them out of catapults :)

I'd think that just hitting the target after being fired from a catapult would do enough damage to destroy the skeleton or zombie as well as the container.

[BillyBobShorton]

Minor Illusion is only somatic and material. Also, you can make any sounds within the noise limit. There's no reason to say it can't be a conversation unless the DM is just arbitrarily nerfing it with a house rule.

I stand corrected. I mave been thinking of Thaumaturgy. But yeah, had a DM who said "it creates a SOUND of someone's voice..." twisting the words to mean "ahhhh, ugh, burp, nooooooo, whyyyy, yellll, whistle, sure, meh... etc.", not to be an auto-play instant mimic of any dialogue one chooses. I felt he was wrong, and just wanted to crap on a cool idea that would have avoided some situation he didn't expect us to resolve so easily, or perhaps at all.

[Finback]

Thoughts?

Somewhere someone on a forum posited that since magic occurs faster than general nerve impulses (which skeletons don't even HAVE), then the speed at which a skeleton can move is quite high.

Then they suggested sharpening the end of a skeleton's arms into flattened blade like surfaces, and sharpening the edges.

Launch them off a cliff, and make them spin really quickly.

SKELECHOPTERS.

(I actually have this up my sleeve for my party to encounter, when fighting the Big Bad World Ending Battle Against An Evil God - their lawful good lich friend descends from the heavens (as I play "Ride of the Valkyries"), commanding his skelechopters into battle with the many flying mooks)

[SharkForce]

I'd think that just hitting the target after being fired from a catapult would do enough damage to destroy the skeleton or zombie as well as the container.

falling damage can't crit, and it isn't radiant. zombies will survive :)

(also, falling damage probably shouldn't really do nearly as much to skeletons or zombies, since neither has important internal organs, but that's a distinction not found in the rules anywhere, so fine).

[Dalebert]

falling damage can't crit, and it isn't radiant. zombies will survive :)

"will survive"? They get a save but it depends on how much damage they took. If they fall far enough, they're likely still going to be a splat of goo on the ground.

Also, FWIW (and I know it's not the end all be all of discussions) but Crawford has said when lycanthrope falls, they take normal damage because it's not a weapon or an attack. So you might need to look at the wording of the zombie ability too. Just a thought. I don't remember how it's worded.