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View Full Version : Rules on familiars: PHB vs MM vs VGtM



Millstone85
2017-01-16, 07:04 AM
Player's Handbook
Find Familiar
You gain the service of a familiar, a spirit that takes an animal form you choose: bat, cat, crab, frog (toad), hawk, lizard, octopus, owl, poisonous snake, fish (quipper), rat, raven, sea horse, spider, or weasel.
Pact of the Chain
When you cast the spell, you can choose one of the normal forms for your familiar or one of the following special forms: imp, pseudodragon, quasit, or sprite.
link (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/696804013501591553)
Does seeing through your familiar's senses with Voice of the Chain Master use an action?Voice of the Chain Master enhances the find familiar spell, which otherwise works as written for the warlock.
Possible familiars: A spirit in animal form or special form.
Possible masters: For an animal form, any character with the find familiar spell. For a special form, any character with the Pact of the Chain warlock feature.
Noteworthy traits: The familiar always obeys, can be telepathically communicated with and have its senses borrowed from up to 100 feet (or from the same plane with Voice of the Chain Master), can deliver a touch spell from up to 100 feet, can be sent to and retrieved from a pocket dimension, can be summoned again after dying, can be summoned again in a new form, but can't attack (or, with Pact of the Chain, can use part of its master's Attack action with its own reaction).

Monster Manual
Variant: Imp/Pseudodragon/Quasit Familiar
The imp/pseudodragon/quasit can enter into a contract to serve another creature as a familiar, forming a telepathic bond with its willing master.
link (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/725190105451888640)
does a familiar summoned by Pact of Chain follow MM rules for familiar variants, or is that a different thing?The familiar variants in the Monster Manual are for monster and NPC spellcasters. PC spellcasters use the PH.
Possible familiars: An actual imp, pseudodragon or quasit (but no sprite).
Possible masters: Any monster or NPC spellcaster.
Noteworthy traits: The familiar initiates and terminates the relationship, can have its senses borrowed from up to 1 mile (no action?), and shares its Magic Resistance trait from up to 10 feet.

Volo's Guide to Monsters
Variant: Gazer Familiar
The gazer can serve another creature as a familiar, forming a telepathic bond with its willing master, provided that the master is at least a 3rd-level spellcaster.
Variant: Familiars
Any spellcaster that can cast the find familiar spell (such as an apprentice, warlock, or wizard) is likely to have a familiar. The familiar can be one of the creatures described in the spell (see the Player's Handbook) or some other Tiny monster, such as a cranium rat, a crawling claw, a gazer, an imp, a pseudodragon, or a quasit.
Possible familiars: An actual gazer or a spirit in Tiny monster form.
Possible masters: For an actual gazer, any 3rd-level spellcaster. For a Tiny monster form, any spellcaster. Probably still have to be monster or NPC spellcasters.
Noteworthy traits: If it is an actual gazer, the familiar initiates and terminates the relationship, and can have its senses borrowed from up to 1 mile. Otherwise, see noteworthy traits for the PHB.

But wait!
link (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/820089279476944897)
Cleric is a spellcaster, so, according to the MM, s/he can have a Pseudodragon familiar, right? Asking for my daughterIt's up to the DM whether a pseudodragon wants to be the familiar of a particular spellcaster (cleric, wizard, etc.).So, a possible reward for PC spellcasters if they can persuade the creature? Why do you even need to be a spellcaster if find familiar isn't involved?

In conclusion
So first, a rant. Even if there isn't a contradiction in there somewhere, it is at least overly complicated and confusing.

Then, how would you manage unusual familiars? Would you treat them like magic items of a given rarity? Would you make them the private hunting group of chainlocks? Would you let Chain familiars share their Magic Resistance trait, even if that's not RAI? What about the senses over 1 mile?

Edit: I missed something very important.
Variant: Familiars
Any spellcaster that can cast the find familiar spell (such as an archmage or mage) is likely to have a familiar. The familiar can be one of the creatures described in the spell (see the Player's Handbook) or some other Tiny monster, such as a crawling claw, imp, pseudodragon, or quasit.VGtM did not have as much of an impact as I thought. The rule that any (NPC) spellcaster can summon any Tiny monster with find familiar was already in the MM.

Addaran
2017-01-16, 12:57 PM
I find Jeremy's ruling of "only for NPC" extremely stupid.

I'd probably allow the Chain familiar to share magic resistance. It would put it more in line with tome (who can already have a familiar and much more).

For the senses, i'd probably keep the normal PHB range or the warlock invocation.

For special familiar, i'm not sure. It would depend if the team actually have warlocks, if i play with hirelings, etc.

If there is hirelings, someone could have a special familliar instead of hireling (if he manange to track/convince one).

If one of the player wants to be a chain warlock, i'd put the imps/quasits/etc off-limit for other casters. Unless maybe it take one attunement slot.

No matter what, i'd let a necromancer have a skeletton or zombie version of one of the regular familliars. It's slightly better, but it's mostly for fluff and cosmetic. And there's obviously downside to having an undead on your shoulder in social settings.

cZak
2017-01-16, 02:03 PM
The side boxes in the Monster manual (Quasit pg 63) states they can form a bond & act as a familiar.
Role play wise, with DM concurrence, I can see how a PC could aquire one as a Familiar. Even without the Find familiar spell.

But the creatures are incredibly fragile. I'm not sure there is a way, other than DM fiat, that their hit points would increase. They can be one-shot'd by almost anything.

But having the Find familiar spell (Magic initiate), I can see the PC getting the familiar back from death ONLY IF the creature is willing.

I have actually done this in an OotAbyss game.
The DM was very gracious to orchestrate this thru roleplaying when we encountered a group of quasits in an encounter

RedMage125
2017-01-16, 06:36 PM
I rule that the Magic Resistance trait is only a trait possessed by ACTUAL Imps/Quasits/Pseudodragons.

By the RAW, the find familiar spell conjures a spirit (fey/celestial/fiendish). The spirit assumes the FORM of an animal. Warlock Pact of the Chain gives the warlock new FORMS that said spirit may take. So even if it looks like a Sprite/Imp/Quasit/Pseudodragon, it remains an amorphous spirit that the master has shaped to his will.

Millstone85
2017-01-17, 08:03 AM
I rule that the Magic Resistance trait is only a trait possessed by ACTUAL Imps/Quasits/Pseudodragons.Don't you mean the ability to share that Magic Resistance trait with the master? The trait itself is part of the stat block, the same in the PHB and the MM, which as I understand it is the "form" adopted by the familiar spirit.


No matter what, i'd let a necromancer have a skeletton or zombie version of one of the regular familliars.This is probably a very common house rule. Aberrant familiars for warlocks of the Great Old One. Constructed familiars for transmuters, maybe, and certainly for artificers now. Draconic familiars for sorcerers of that bloodline. Elemental familiars for storm sorcerers. Undead familiars for death clerics, necromancers, oathbreakers and warlocks of the Undying. And now I can see the familiar of a wild magic sorcerer randomly changing type after each surge.


I'd probably allow the Chain familiar to share magic resistance. It would put it more in line with tome (who can already have a familiar and much more).Probably common too, because that MM entry is just taunting. That being said, keeping your familiar close to you in a fight might not be such a great idea.


For the senses, i'd probably keep the normal PHB range or the warlock invocation.I used to think it ruined the Voice of the Chain Master invocation, but now I see a case could be made that it is only the senses and not the communication.


For special familiar, i'm not sure. It would depend if the team actually have warlocks, if i play with hirelings, etc.If the players figure it out, they might hate on the guy who picked warlock.


But having the Find familiar spell (Magic initiate), I can see the PC getting the familiar back from death ONLY IF the creature is willing.That would be a good way to justify Volo's mention of the spell.

jaappleton
2017-01-17, 08:47 AM
Not to throw yet another wrench into this, but I believe Faerie Dragons can be familiars in some sort of way, too.

Millstone85
2017-01-17, 09:29 AM
Not to throw yet another wrench into this, but I believe Faerie Dragons can be familiars in some sort of way, too.What wrenches have been thrown? And yes, the faerie dragon would fall under Volo's "some other Tiny monster" rule. I guess a young one wouldn't upset balance too much.

Addaran
2017-01-17, 09:40 AM
This is probably a very common house rule. Aberrant familiars for warlocks of the Great Old One. Constructed familiars for transmuters, maybe, and certainly for artificers now. Draconic familiars for sorcerers of that bloodline. Elemental familiars for storm sorcerers. Undead familiars for death clerics, necromancers, oathbreakers and warlocks of the Undying. And now I can see the familiar of a wild magic sorcerer randomly changing type after each surge.
I'm not sure i'd go that far. Undead familiar use mostly cosmetic and a little defensive boost. Some of them seems like they would give a lot more powers (dragonic and elemental) to classes that are supposed to have normal animal familiars.

Mephits for example makes cool Chain familiar, but they are definitively stronger then a toad, mouse or raven.

So i'd make sure it's not too big of a boost. With a focus on defensive stuff (elemental appropriate resistance) because they aren't supposed to fight much anyway. (unless the player abuse help).


If the players figure it out, they might hate on the guy who picked warlock.

I see it mostly as not invalidating a player's choice. If a PC is using opportunity cost to gain something, you shouldn't give it for "free" to everyone else.

But if you plan to have familiars for some of your players, you could always tell the warlock how it will work. This way, if he wants an imp and the others already have access to it, he can go tome or blade and still get his imp.


That would be a good way to justify Volo's mention of the spell.

Yeah, a real monster that you convince to become a familiar should be a one-life deal. If it dies, you'd need revivify at least.
That's the advantage of the spell, even if it dies, you can summon it back and it's the same, with all the knowledge.

jaappleton
2017-01-17, 09:52 AM
Well, according to that line in Volo's, any Tiny creature can be a Familiar, right? Like a Demilich? That's CR18. Flaming Skull? CR4, but it reminds me of Morte from Planescape so I love it. And then there's Intellect Devourer at CR2.



Gazer and Quickling fall under the CR1 guideline, right? But I can't seem to recall where that guideline is actually from...

Millstone85
2017-01-17, 09:53 AM
So i'd make sure it's not too big of a boost. With a focus on defensive stuff (elemental appropriate resistance) because they aren't supposed to fight much anyway. (unless the player abuse help).I was just thinking about changing the creature type, like "It is a _____ spirit in animal / special form, as you can tell by the bare bones / gear wheels / etc.". Change the languages too and it is good to go.
Edit: Though I guess lacking matching resistances would be odd, yes. Then again, the form doesn't have to be a proper match for the spirit (celestial quasit, ouch).


Gazer and Quickling fall under the CR1 guideline, right? But I can't seem to recall where that guideline is actually from...The strongest Pact of the Chain familiars are CR1. Otherwise, I haven't seen any such guideline.

Millstone85
2017-03-27, 03:23 AM
I am bringing back this thread because I missed something very important.
Variant: Familiars
Any spellcaster that can cast the find familiar spell (such as an archmage or mage) is likely to have a familiar. The familiar can be one of the creatures described in the spell (see the Player's Handbook) or some other Tiny monster, such as a crawling claw, imp, pseudodragon, or quasit.VGtM did not have as much of an impact as I thought. The rule that any (NPC) spellcaster can summon any Tiny monster with Find Familiar was already in the MM.