Kelemvor Cleric and Necromancer PCs

[BushidoKnight86]

One of the guys in our group's character just died and he wants to play a kenku necromancer. I'm playing a human cleric of Kelemvor and I'm not sure how I can justify traveling with a necromancer. Especially one that won't be able to communicate with the group. Any tips or suggestions? I really don't want to abandon this character, and I don't want to murder his new character. Help, please!

[JellyPooga]

Question; Does he have any intention of using Animate Dead?

The answer is probably "yes", given that Necromancer Wizards get a significant boon when casting it, but it's an important question. If he never dallies with the undead, your Cleric shouldn't particularly have a problem with it. Using necromancy spells is not, in and of itself, against Kelemvors teachings (unless you're talking to the most fanatical extremists of his clergy/congregation, I suppose).

Talk to the player; see what his intentions are out-of-character and explain your concerns. Resolve it out of character before it has a chance to become a problem in character.

[Millstone85]

a kenku necromancer.I would bring the Raven Queen in the setting just so he can worship her.

Now, I don't know, maybe he is a fight-fire-with-fire guy?

[Addaran]

Theorically, he can communicate with the group. He can mimick words he heard before like a parrots.


But regarding the necromancer part, i'd talk to the player out-game to see what he really want to do. If this was before the game, you'd probably have to compromise so everyone have characters that can play together. But since you're already playing that character and he's changing, you kinda have priority.

It's always best not to have characters that can't work together in the party. Some anti-hero warlock and paladin can work. But a santanist warlock and a LG 3ed paladin, nope. A proud barbarian that always fight fair but don't care if others in the party don't and an assassin, that can work. A proud barbarian that will kill anyone he deems not honnorable and an assassin, that won't work.

[Fishyninja]

I'm playing a human cleric of Kelemvor and I'm not sure how I can justify traveling with a necromancer.

Hmm a Doomguide, interesting. As many people have said so long as this necromancer is not animating the dead you should be fine!

I'm playing a Monk of Kelemvor, however my character is a taaaad zealous and will murder hobo anyone who disagrees with him.

Again all I can say is discuss it with the player out of character and maybe devise some very good RP moments....for example if the Necromancer raises the dead you challenge him to a duel (not to the death) just to teach him/her/it a lesson etc. Again it is all about communication.

[BushidoKnight86]

Thanks for all the advise! I'm pretty certain he'll be casting raise dead as he jokingly told me that he'll be sure to raise me as a zombie when I die. He also knows I'm concerned about the group synergy, but he's rolling it anyways. So I think I''ll just have to destroy his undead after every fight and severely reprimand him for his evil ways, possibly with a duel.

[Aett_Thorn]

Thanks for all the advise! I'm pretty certain he'll be casting raise dead as he jokingly told me that he'll be sure to raise me as a zombie when I die. He also knows I'm concerned about the group synergy, but he's rolling it anyways. So I think I''ll just have to destroy his undead after every fight and severely reprimand him for his evil ways, possibly with a duel.

If he knows that you have concerns and is doing it anyways, he's kind of a ****. He's willing to compromise your role-playing just so that he can have some fun. That's just not good table-manners.

You are welcome to fight fire with fire on any undead that he raises. In fact, I would go out of my way to destroy his undead during battle if he did this to me.

[JellyPooga]

You are welcome to fight fire with fire on any undead that he raises. In fact, I would go out of my way to destroy his undead during battle if he did this to me.

Ah! No! Don't do this! Solving these things in-character never ends well.

If this guy absolutely insists on rolling this character, appeal to the GM; s/he has absolute veto on any new characters and as an established character, yours should have precedence. If this guy wants to play a character that is a literal antithesis of yours, dude needs to come up with another concept.

This is worse than a "Lawful Stupid Paladin + Chaotic Stupid Thief" level character clash. At least that combo can technically work out if someone can rein them in. A dude animating corpses in front of a Cleric of Kelemvor isn't even funny stupid.

[Biggstick]

If he knows that you have concerns and is doing it anyways, he's kind of a ****. He's willing to compromise your role-playing just so that he can have some fun. That's just not good table-manners.

You are welcome to fight fire with fire on any undead that he raises. In fact, I would go out of my way to subtly influence the party/community into thinking he's evil and having them throw him/her out themselves. This will keep the blame off me and turn that player's PC into a potential BBEG that my DM can take advantage of.

I fixed it for you. :D


Ah! No! Don't do this! Solving these things in-character never ends well.

If this guy absolutely insists on rolling this character, appeal to the GM; s/he has absolute veto on any new characters and as an established character, yours should have precedence. If this guy wants to play a character that is a literal antithesis of yours, dude needs to come up with another concept.

This is the more adult/appropriate response to the situation. Although I'd be more likely to want to do the first approach, my sense of right and wrong would probably have me appealing to the GM on the situation. Bring up party cohesion and how your character shouldn't have to deal with having to party with your exact opposite. Your character was a part of the party first, and the new PC is from a player who's been at the table. The incoming PC is the one that should have to make the adjustments, not you. A Necromancer is pretty much everything you stand against as a Doomguide Cleric of Kelemvor.

[Aett_Thorn]

Well, I kind of assumed that if they had already talked to the other player, that they've probably talked to the DM. IF that hasn't been done, then yes, that is the next step.

[Fishyninja]

I wonder if this is a common occurence, PC's purposefully making the Antithesis of another PC.

[Aett_Thorn]

I wonder if this is a common occurence, PC's purposefully making the Antithesis of another PC.

I tend to like to "play" with other characters at the table. For instance, in one game I was joining, there was one player who's character was highly religious for a certain deity. I was joining the campaign, and decided to create a Bard character that was pretending to be a member of the same religion. While I was never going against this character, my kind of sub-goal was to see how long I could keep up the charade in front of them that I wasn't a Bard. Would only do Bard-y type things when their character couldn't see, and would use Bardic Inspiration with texts to the DM. Made it quite a while before getting nabbed. Accidentally cast an illusion in front of their character, and they started putting it together.

But going against a character like this is just asking for trouble from the table. There are many ways to play a necromancer that doesn't raise the dead that could work here. Sure it's a bit suboptimal, but it can work. However, this situation just seems like it'll eventually break down into an argument between the two characters, then the two players, and then the table as a whole. It's not likely going to end well.

[Fishyninja]

on just seems like it'll eventually break down into an argument between the two characters, then the two players, and then the table as a whole. It's not likely going to end well.

Fair enough I was wondering just as we have a pacifist and a murderhobo in one of our groups.

[Addaran]

I wonder if this is a common occurence, PC's purposefully making the Antithesis of another PC.

Kinda. I've seen it a few times. The antithesis PC probably see it as teasing or a rivalry relation between the characters. But he fails to see that it's much more then just rivalry (in the OP's case) or that he'll be preventing the other character from having his fun (lawful paladin joining a team with a thief and stopping him from doing his thing).

[MBControl]

I'm playing a Paladin of Kelemvor in a party with a necromancer.

Not wanting to be the crappy paladin guy in the group, I had to find the same rationale. Luckily for me, I'm a Paladin of Vengence who's oath focuses on the greatest threat. I don't have to like what he does, but frankly he is not the greatest threat, and he is participating in ridding the world of evil.

[Biggstick]

I'm playing a Paladin of Kelemvor in a party with a necromancer.

Not wanting to be the crappy paladin guy in the group, I had to find the same rationale. Luckily for me, I'm a Paladin of Vengence who's oath focuses on the greatest threat. I don't have to like what he does, but frankly he is not the greatest threat, and he is participating in ridding the world of evil.

That's very lucky for you then. If you played in the games I've played in, either members of your faith or a proxy of Kelemvor himself would have become interested in you.

"How can you as a Paladin, the right hand of Kelemvor, tolerate this abomination of a creature in your presence?" -fellow member of the Kelemvor faith.

"How can you tolerate that *points at Necromancer* creature's existence when their practices go so much against the beliefs of Kelemvor?" -fellow member of the Kelemvor faith.

"So we've become aware that you have been working with the Undead to carry out Kelemvor's will. While what you've done is respectable, we're going to have to ask you to destroy the Undead. We're also going to ask that you no longer work with the Undead, as they are the antithesis of everything a worshipper of Kelemvor represents." -divine proxy of Kelemvor.

These are just examples that would get thrown at a Paladin of Kelemvor in games I've played. It would seem you have a pretty generous DM who doesn't really dig into the deities and what they care about.

[Draco4472]

Having played a Cleric of Kelemvor myself, I have some experience in this field.

The information in the SCAG on Kelemvor states that undead are hated by this deity to the point where tombs on Necromancy are burned, which causes strife with Clerics of Ohgma (I may have butchered the name) which try to collect/preserve all knowledge. So in theory, you could take and destroy the Necromancer's spellbook and appease your god, leaving him with some spellcasting, but not leaving him defenseless, or tolerate him so long as he doesn't start animating bodies. Once he starts collecting bodies for an army however, burn his corpse using his spellbook as kindling, varying on how devout and/or fanatical you are.

Out of character, make sure the other player understands what playing a PC like this may result in, and if they want to continue to go through with it, they can't blame you when you cause their premature cremation for having skeleton groupies follow the party around.

[MinotaurWarrior]

Ah! No! Don't do this! Solving these things in-character never ends well.

Eh, depends on the table. PvP works fine in my group. An irreconcilable, emergent difference cost me my last PC, and I didn't mind. If OP and the Necromancer player are both cool with losing their characters at level 5, they can go for it.

I just kinda suspect neither of them are.

[Biggstick]

Eh, depends on the table. PvP works fine in my group. An irreconcilable, emergent difference cost me my last PC, and I didn't mind. If OP and the Necromancer player are both cool with losing their characters at level 5, they can go for it.

I just kinda suspect neither of them are.

The OP shouldn't have to be put into this PvP situation. The Necromancer is the new party member here, and the OP's Cleric, who has rapport with the group aND world already, shouldn't be pushed into this situation! The new party member has to be able to fit into the party dynamic, not the other way around.

That is, unless the OP is ok with that sort of outcome. Like you said, I suspect not though.

[Sigreid]

Thanks for all the advise! I'm pretty certain he'll be casting raise dead as he jokingly told me that he'll be sure to raise me as a zombie when I die. He also knows I'm concerned about the group synergy, but he's rolling it anyways. So I think I''ll just have to destroy his undead after every fight and severely reprimand him for his evil ways, possibly with a duel.

Ok, this sounds like he's looking for a fight and wants to see how it turns out. I'd probably just bluntly say in front of him and the DM something like "The heresy of defiling the dead will not be tolerated and will be avenged". In fact say it in front of all of the players. It's not like adventuring with they guy that does the one thing your religion considers the gravest crime makes any more sense than the LG Devotion paladin adventuring with the known homicidal, kleptomaniac rogue that follows Asmodeus.