Homebrew Minotaur

[CrimsonConcerto]

Hello! I'm soon going to be playing in my first 5E game, and I'd like to play a Minotaur, but the current Unearthed Arcana Minotaur that I found does not suit me at all. My DM is already cool with my making homebrewed adjustments, since he knows that my experience with previous editions is extensive, and if I'm understanding correctly, it's just playtest material anyway, so I'd just like some feedback on the simple version that I'm working on.

Just to be clear, the major reason that I dislike the existing Minotaur from a design perspective is that I've never, in any edition, approved of racial features that (a) are really cultural features rather than innate properties or (b) pigeon-hole characters of a race too strongly into too limited a class or party role. The major offenders in the existing Minotaur are the somehow innate proficiency with navigation tools (I know it's a setting-specific thing, but that's still exactly the problem) and the fact that literally three of their racial features are "hit things in melee with your horns while you hit things in melee with your horns because you have horns".

MINOTAUR TRAITS

Ability Score Increase: Your Strength score increases by 2. Your choice of your Constitution, Intelligence, or Wisdom score increases by 1.
Size: Your size is Medium.
Speed: Your base walking speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision: You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can't discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
Horns: You are proficient with your horns, which are a melee weapon that deals 1d6 piercing damage.
Labyrinthine Recall: You can perfectly recall any path you have traveled.
Languages: You can speak, read, and write Common.

...and then I haven't quite settled on what to give them last. I had one idea for a feature and then found out that it was part of the Alertness feat: "Enemies never gain advantage when striking you from stealth." This still seems like the best idea so far, but I would like opinions, especially since it'd then be weird of a Minotaur ever took that feat to just not gain any benefit.

I also thought of letting them use the Dodge action as a bonus action once per rest, but I feel like that's too good. The general idea was something reminiscent of Uncanny Dodge, and I also thought of just giving them whatever this edition's equivalent of that was, which I see the Rogue gets as a 5th level feature. Though, I'd limit it to once per rest rather than being apparently at-will. And I'd actually feel a little weird about that since the feature would be useless to Minotaur Rogues.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Why the altertness schtick? That doesn't really scream "minotaur" to me... I'd suggest Powerful Build, and maybe Athletics proficiency/expertise.

[CrimsonConcerto]

Why the altertness schtick? That doesn't really scream "minotaur" to me...
Minotaurs have a highly developed innate sense of spatial awareness. They need to not to get lost in those mazes and stuff. That's why in previous editions they've gotten features that protect them from flanking enemies, enemies they can't see, etc. Idk if something versus flanking would be appropriate since that's only an optional variant in this edition.


I'd suggest Powerful Build, and maybe Athletics proficiency/expertise.
Powerful Build from Goliath seems good. Fits with the "beast of burden" thing what with their being bull people. But if I went with that, then I'd feel like they were still missing something. It, along with Labyrinthine Recall and Horns, are basically just flavor features. There's gotta be something with some meat. Athletics I'm not really seeing; while strong, Minotaurs aren't inherently particularly skillfully athletic at anything like climbing, jumping, or swimming.

[DracoKnight]

Minotaurs have a highly developed innate sense of spatial awareness. They need to not to get lost in those mazes and stuff. That's why in previous editions they've gotten features that protect them from flanking enemies, enemies they can't see, etc. Idk if something versus flanking would be appropriate since that's only an optional variant in this edition.


Powerful Build from Goliath seems good. Fits with the "beast of burden" thing what with their being bull people. But if I went with that, then I'd feel like they were still missing something. It, along with Labyrinthine Recall and Horns, are basically just flavor features. There's gotta be something with some meat. Athletics I'm not really seeing; while strong, Minotaurs aren't inherently particularly skillfully athletic at anything like climbing, jumping, or swimming.

Athletics also applies to grappling/escaping grapples. Which a strong character should be able to do. Also the Greeks gave us the Olympics, for a totally non sequitur reason to give them Athletics proficiency/expertise.

[CrimsonConcerto]

Athletics also applies to grappling/escaping grapples. Which a strong character should be able to do. Also the Greeks gave us the Olympics, for a totally non sequitur reason to give them Athletics proficiency/expertise.
That's... actually not bad justification. Though, Goliaths already get that, and if I give Minotaur the Powerful Build thing, it's going to come out way too similar. And if I keep Darkvision then it's going to come across as just a blend of Half-Orc and Goliath.

Could I do something with Dash maybe? Like when you Dash you gain resistance to all damage until your next turn? Or advantage on all saves until your next turn? Or just advantage on all STR, CON, and DEX saves... I'm not sure, but something with Dashing that could thematically well be used in conjunction with charging but not necessarily seems like not a bad direction...

[DracoKnight]

That's... actually not bad justification. Though, Goliaths already get that, and if I give Minotaur the Powerful Build thing, it's going to come out way too similar. And if I keep Darkvision then it's going to come across as just a blend of Half-Orc and Goliath.

Could I do something with Dash maybe? Like when you Dash you gain resistance to all damage until your next turn? Or advantage on all saves until your next turn? Or just advantage on all STR, CON, and DEX saves... I'm not sure, but something with Dashing that could thematically well be used in conjunction with charging but not necessarily seems like not a bad direction...

Maybe something along the lines of "When you take the Dash action you can use a bonus action to make a melee attack with your horns. You have advantage on your attack roll."

I'd also bump the horns to d8 or d10.

[GlenSmash!]

I understand why they got Labyrinthine Recall in the past, but it seems to me like it's just as oddly specific as Krynn Minotaur getting the Proficiency in Navigator's tools. I would rather let my background determine if My Minotaur came from a Labyrinth or Longship, I could just refluff the Urchin Feature for the Former and use the Sailor/Pirate for the latter.

Going with the Dash/Charge option is more distinctive to me.

[CrimsonConcerto]

Maybe something along the lines of "When you take the Dash action you can use a bonus action to make a melee attack with your horns. You have advantage on your attack roll." I'd also bump the horns to d8 or d10.
I know you're just being facetious, and that's fine, but just in case you really did miss it, one of the reasons that I don't like the UA Minotaur is because it's too melee-centric. Whatever I end up deciding on, it may be something that has better synergy with melee classes, but it'll still have to be something most character types can make reasonably appreciable use of.

[CrimsonConcerto]

I understand why they got Labyrinthine Recall in the past, but it seems to me like it's just as oddly specific as Krynn Minotaur getting the Proficiency in Navigator's tools. I would rather let my background determine if My Minotaur came from a Labyrinth or Longship...
Eh, the way I see it, the sense of direction is an innate psychological feature. The name of the feature has to do with labyrinths, and I could see renaming it, but its function is perfectly applicable to the high seas, to dense jungles, to vast deserts, anywhere a creature with a lesser sense of direction could find themselves lost.

[GlenSmash!]

Eh, the way I see it, the sense of direction is an innate psychological feature. The name of the feature has to do with labyrinths, and I could see renaming it, but its function is perfectly applicable to the high seas, to dense jungles, to vast deserts, anywhere a creature with a lesser sense of direction could find themselves lost.

Sure, but what about being a Cow Man hybrid causes this psychological feature more than say, a cat man, wolf man, horse man, or a bear man?

[CrimsonConcerto]

Sure, but what about being a Cow Man hybrid causes this psychological feature more than say, a cat man, wolf man, horse man, or a bear man?
What about being an Elf-Human hybrid causes somebody to be extremely Charismatic? Hybrids often exhibit unique features and are greater than the sum of their parts. If you're not into it, no worries, I get it. I'd like to keep it, though, especially since it's essentially just a flavor feature. =)

[GlenSmash!]

What about being an Elf-Human hybrid causes somebody to be extremely Charismatic? Hybrids often exhibit unique features and are greater than the sum of their parts. If you're not into it, no worries, I get it. I'd like to keep it, though, especially since it's essentially just a flavor feature. =)

Good point about Half-Elves. I never got where the Charisma came from either.

[Steel Mirror]

I would actually lock in the +1 part of the ability score bonuses to a single attribute. I'm not sure if there's a good reason to make them so flexible (that's usually handled by subraces), and giving them +1 to Wis seems appropriate to me because it dovetails nicely with what you're trying to do making these guys observant and with a strong sense of direction.

I do like Labyrinthine Recall, as you say it's a little flavorful ability that will see use in some games and not others, but it's fairly powerful in the right situations and backs up their lore in a cute and easy to adjudicate way.

As for their last ability, what about taking a different approach from the Alertness option? They seem pretty intimidating; maybe they get Intimidation as a trained skill? Maybe they can also use their Str bonus to Intimidation instead of their Cha bonus.

Or you could do something about move speed. Minotaurs always struck me as being particularly fast and powerful in motion. Maybe they can move triple their move speed instead of double when they Dash, or they gain advantage on checks to rush foes or break objects when they move before making such ability checks, or something like that?

[DracoKnight]

I know you're just being facetious, and that's fine, but just in case you really did miss it, one of the reasons that I don't like the UA Minotaur is because it's too melee-centric. Whatever I end up deciding on, it may be something that has better synergy with melee classes, but it'll still have to be something most character types can make reasonably appreciable use of.

Actually, I was being totally serious because I hadn't looked at the UA minotaur in forever :smalltongue:

[Grod_The_Giant]

Powerful Build, Perception proficiency, and Dash as a Bonus Action?

[CrimsonConcerto]

I would actually lock in the +1 part of the ability score bonuses to a single attribute. I'm not sure if there's a good reason to make them so flexible (that's usually handled by subraces).
To be fair, I think all of the other races are too limited and would do the same thing to them if given the opportunity. XP
But you're probably right, I think I'll remove INT as an option.


As for their last ability, what about taking a different approach from the Alertness option? They seem pretty intimidating; maybe they get Intimidation as a trained skill? Maybe they can also use their Str bonus to Intimidation instead of their Cha bonus.
I was considering letting them Intimidate as a bonus action when they Dash, but it turns out Intimidate doesn't do anything in combat in this edition. XP


Or you could do something about move speed. Minotaurs always struck me as being particularly fast and powerful in motion. Maybe they can move triple their move speed instead of double when they Dash, or they gain advantage on checks to rush foes or break objects when they move before making such ability checks, or something like that?

Dash as a Bonus Action?
Something with Dash does seems super appropriate, especially because now I kind of really want to name one of their racial features "Bull Rush", haha, but I'm not sure exactly what. I don't want it to be that they're faster when they Dash or can Dash more effectively just because that seems like something that a speedier-flavored race should have. Rather, I think it'd be fitting if they got something more forceful as an additional bonus when they dash. A free shove or advantage on STR checks sounds maybe interesting, but it still has that heavy melee bend that I'm trying to see if I can avoid. I've also considered giving them bonuses to their STR and CON saves when they dash or giving them resistance to damage after they dash or letting them spend a hit die when they dash, but nothing seems to quite fit right. It'd help if I were just a little more familiar with the rules for this edition. =/

[djreynolds]

[QUOTE=CrimsonConcerto;21605187]
MINOTAUR TRAITS

Ability Score Increase: Your Strength score increases by 2. Your choice of your Constitution, Intelligence, or Wisdom score increases by 1.
Size: Your size is Medium.
Speed: Your base walking speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision: You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can't discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
Horns: You are proficient with your horns, which are a melee weapon that deals 1d6 piercing damage.
Labyrinthine Recall: You can perfectly recall any path you have traveled.
Languages: You can speak, read, and write Common.

QUOTE]

What is the changes made,

+2 in strength instead of +1,

but a downgrade from 1d10 horn damage to 1d6

You can take alertness as a feat, but as a racial feature way too powerful. Alertness is feat that for most classes is a luxury or you hope the rogue or ranger selected it

and you added darkvision... to me very powerful

Now you are master of the maze here: can't be surprised and can see in the dark and you are never lost...

I'll give it to you if..... you add in sun-light sensitivity

[Steel Mirror]

How about:

Bull Rush. When you take the Dash action, you ignore the effects of difficult terrain and gain resistance to damage until the end of your turn. You may also make a melee attack with your horns as a bonus action whenever you use the Dash action.

While that is nice for melee types, it's also deceptively good for people who want to get out of melee at any cost. If an opponent ever gets up in your grill, you have the ability to run away while bulldozing (teehee) over any obstacles and terrain in the way, you can shrug off blows from Opportunity Attacks you provoke as you retreat, and you get a little love tap on the way out because why not.

[Grod_The_Giant]

How about:

Bull Rush. When you take the Dash action, you ignore the effects of difficult terrain and gain resistance to damage until the end of your turn. You may also make a melee attack with your horns as a bonus action whenever you use the Dash action.
That's pretty good.

I don't think it's worth getting too bent out of shape avoiding melee-based benefits, because this is, inevitably, going to be a melee-oriented race. I mean, you're an giant cow-man with horns; there's not much about that that screams "archer" or "wizard."

[CrimsonConcerto]

How about:Bull Rush. When you take the Dash action, you ignore the effects of difficult terrain and gain resistance to damage until the end of your turn. You may also make a melee attack with your horns as a bonus action whenever you use the Dash action.

While that is nice for melee types, it's also deceptively good for people who want to get out of melee at any cost. If an opponent ever gets up in your grill, you have the ability to run away while bulldozing (teehee) over any obstacles and terrain in the way, you can shrug off blows from Opportunity Attacks you provoke as you retreat, and you get a little love tap on the way out because why not.
All right, I like that! =D


I don't think it's worth getting too bent out of shape avoiding melee-based benefits, because this is, inevitably, going to be a melee-oriented race. I mean, you're an giant cow-man with horns; there's not much about that that screams "archer" or "wizard."
I know this is a thing that a lot of people don't care about, but it's just a design philosophy issue. It's fine to me if racial features have better synergy with some roles than others. Indeed, it's inevitable. But hard pigeon-holing just doesn't sit well with me. Minotaur Wizards and Minotaur Archers should be reasonable options, even if sub-optimal, and they will be sub-optimal enough without needing to get screwed out of all of their racial features too. Playing against type doesn't necessarily need to be encouraged, but it shouldn't be so discouraged either.

[CrimsonConcerto]

Okay, so here's what I have now...

MINOTAUR TRAITS

Ability Score Increase: Your Strength score increases by 2. Your choice of your Constitution or Wisdom score increases by 1.
Size: Your size is Medium.
Speed: Your base walking speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision: You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can't discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
Beast of Burden: You count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift.
Bull Rush: When you use your action to Dash, you can choose either to gain resistance to all damage until the end of your turn or to use a bonus action to make a melee attack with your horns. Your horns are a melee weapon that deals 1d8 piercing damage, but although you are proficient with them, they cannot be used effectively except as part of a bonus action during a Dash; otherwise, they're treated the same as any other unarmed strike except that they deal piercing damage.
Labyrinthine Recall: You can perfectly recall any path you have traveled.
Languages: You can speak, read, and write Common.

I rolled up Horns into only being able to be effectively used when dashing because, to be honest, the idea that Minotaurs, who are generally upright humanoid, have the ability to use their horns effectively as melee weapons on the regular is a little silly and awkward. Having them specifically usable when dashing, though, seems appropriate, and I leave room open for them to be used with the Charger feat. I.... think this looks about right. =D

[djreynolds]

Seems powerful

though I do like bull rush, it is very cool.

I would leave damage at 1d10 and as an attack whenever

for me its the darkvision, I like the idea of maybe blindsight or something else, or scent that would be cool