Monk/Rogue dumping Wis [optimization]

[Linker2k]

Hello,

I'm about to start hotdq/rise, and we are using point buy, so as usual i come here to propose my character to your expert eyes before starting:

Its a party of 4 (A Barbarian, Knowledge Cleric, Bladelock, and me) the bladelock is not going all the way with CHR as he wants batman like and will only use CHR for intimidation, the cleric will have 14 CHR to compensate.

Anyhow im planning on a monk 1/rogue 1/ shadow monk x (or starting rogue for the extra skill). And ill be taking the spy role.

Race: VHuman

Stats: 10/16/14/8/15/10
(im not dumping chr because of fluff)

Weapon: Ssword and unarmed (for sneak)

Skills: Investigation, Perception, Acrobatics, Athletism, Stealth and i want to chose either deception, survival or persuation.

Feats:

Lvl 1: Mobile (i dont want to be squishy so i will hit and run)

Lvl4: +2 Dex Asi

Lvl8: Observant (for the 16 wis)

Lvl12: +2 Dex Asi

After that i dont know.

Its my first time using a monk and i know its not tank but i want to be able to fight meele and not having to use the shortbow all the time.

Also i want to ask for a 9hour long rest so i can cast darkvision on myself and recover the ki points.

Any advice?

Thanks as usual.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Looks like you're not dumping Wisdom all that hard, considering you're starting with a 15 and getting to 16 at a reasonable enough point in the game.

Rogue 1 is a good start because of the extra proficiency. One thing to note is that, at pretty much every stage of the game, Wisdom is not better than studded leather armor for your AC, provided you can find +1 studded leather by around level 8. So consider armor as an option for you, if it doesn't interfere with too many other features (AFB at the moment).

[coredump]

Armor is not an option, because you lose all of your Martial Arts abilities.

Remember that UAS will not trigger Sneak Attack, that only works with the shortsword.

Why do you want the level of rogue? How is it benefiting your character concept? (I have some ideas, but want to know what yours are)

Remember that your feats will be level 4 monk, so you will be 5th level (monk4/Rogue1) when you get it.

If you want to emphasize the 'scout' part, pick up Observant earlier, if you want to emphasize the 'able to fight' part, pick Dex first.

I assume expertise in Stealth and Perception?

[djreynolds]

Well I like it.

Wisdom and monks comes down to few things, you need it for AC and stunning fist primarily and saves

Mobile is very good, because you may not have a bonus action left over to even spend a KI point on something like step of the wind or patient defense. So mobile will allow to fight in melee and spend that bonus action on FOB and disengage a single enemy if you want to.

I like observant, and if you take a level of rogue and snag perception with expertise... you could be sleeping and the slightest thing would wake you.

And since you took mobile you may not even need any more rogue than that, but then again uncanny dodge is nice to have as you have deflect missiles for a reaction use but nothing for melee and I prefer the swashbuckler archetype over assassin just for rakish audacity... and fancy footwork which you may not need due to having mobile at first level human variant... so assassin may be a better option.

But also consider arcane trickster, even with a very low intelligence you can just select non-attack utility and defensive spells and gain access to the shield spell, albeit 2 uses a long rest for a 3rd level AT.

With all that said, I might wait on rogue as the others have suggested, doubling your proficiency bonus before 5th level is only adding an additional 2 points so wait until perhaps after 6th level at least or perhaps after 8th level when select observant to even out your wisdom and gain that sweet +5 to passive perception, perhaps even take observant at 4th.

Mobile and monk are a good combo, and you want darkvision earlier rather than later to be really good at stealth... torches and lanterns are annoying.

[Linker2k]

Remember that UAS will not trigger Sneak Attack, that only works with the shortsword.

Why do you want the level of rogue? How is it benefiting your character concept? (I have some ideas, but want to know what yours are)

Remember that your feats will be level 4 monk, so you will be 5th level (monk4/Rogue1) when you get it.

If you want to emphasize the 'scout' part, pick up Observant earlier, if you want to emphasize the 'able to fight' part, pick Dex first.

I assume expertise in Stealth and Perception?


I wanted the expertise on Investigation and Perception (or Athletics), the level of rogue im thinking it to give it some extra skills (and maybe a 2nd level for a non ki dash and hide) also for the extra 1d6 damage per turn (using shortsword).

My main objective is not to be a monk that has to stay behind using a bow, i picked shadow because of the versatility (ill be using pass w/o trace a lot to aid my heavy armor bladelock)

About waiting after 6 to get the rogue level is a good idea but i did not want to stop the monk engine once running as i think i might not go with rogue at all. thats why i said first level because its the "free" one, but a good point is that it will late the rest (multiattack, ki empowered and d6 for Uas).

[Aryjna]

i don't think observant is worth a feat slot. Resilient wisdom may be a much better choice, giving +1 wisdom and proficiency with wisdom saving throws.

[djreynolds]

i don't think observant is worth a feat slot. Resilient wisdom may be a much better choice, giving +1 wisdom and proficiency with wisdom saving throws.

That's actually very true, you may never get to 14th level monk.

At the end of the day with an 8 intelligence and expertise it will top off at +11, so that is a good choice if you to be good at perception, athletics, and investigation.

I would honestly wait till at least level 6 and get your magic fists.

But I like the idea, and going rogue early is all right. You could in fact just go rogue first and start out with 4 skills plus background for 6 skills, instead of monk only netting you 5 skills. Have dex and int saves... not bad and still get unarmored defense later.

But it is a very cool build and mobile will help in melee if it gets too hot and you have to bail.

[Linker2k]

i don't think observant is worth a feat slot. Resilient wisdom may be a much better choice, giving +1 wisdom and proficiency with wisdom saving throws.

Im talking to my DM for observant to give +5 investigation instead of passive invest. Also i wanted to combine monk tongue with leap reading so i can read lips in any language.