bard in curse of strahd

[diplomancer]

hi all. ever since reading the PHB Ive been wanting to play a bard, but so far every party Ive been in already had one, so Ive been trying other classes.

however, I will be playing in a bardless party soon, which means I will be able to play one. Ive always liked college of lore better than college of valor, however it seems to me that cutting words wont go too far against undead (Ive asked the DM, he says it will only work against intelligent corporeal undeads). In that particular situation Ive been thinking of going valor, maybe a bit of a grappler build. Rest of the party is a Cleric, a Rogue, a Paladin2/WarlockX and a Fighter or a Monk, player still undecided.

Thoughts? Thanks all.

[EvilAnagram]

First of all, your DM's ruling is definitely not RAW, so he's just nerfing the Lore Bard ability for no reason.

But you will find plenty of undead who meet those conditions in CoS.

[BiPolar]

Agreed with above, the only riders for Cutting Words is that the creature can't be immune to the Charmed condition and it has to be able to hear you (understanding you NOT required).

If you can speak telepathically for whatever reason, YMMV on bypassing creatures that can't 'hear'.

As long as the creature passes those two tests, Cutting Words should apply. Why does he want to change the mechanics of it?

[Biggstick]

I would be weary with this DM then on pretty much anything charm related OP. I'm a huge fan of Bards, but some of their charm is the ability to influence people and combat by casting spells that Charm an enemy (or group of them!). S/he might arbitrarily decide that Hypnotic Patter doesn't necessarily work against the undead without telling you. I'd just suggest that you keep this in mind before you fully commit to the idea of Bard, and know what you're getting into beforehand.

As for a Grappler build, that's definitely doable! I'd suggest grabbing a silvered weapon though. For the times when you actually need to damage your enemies.
I'd also suggest grabbing skill proficiencies you think will be useful in a gothic horror themed game. CoS isn't always about combat, and being able to read the situation you're currently in will make you extremely useful to your party.

[Sception]

Ive always liked college of lore better than college of valor, however it seems to me that cutting words wont go too far against undead (Ive asked the DM, he says it will only work against intelligent corporeal undeads).

Both you and your DM should be aware that "unintelligent undead" mostly isn't a thing anymore. Skeletons are kind of dumb at int 6, and zombies barely more than animalistic intelligence at int 3, but neither are mindless automatons like they were in the 3.5 days. Zombies, for instance, are smarter than velociraptors, making them more than capable of, say, opening doors, or learning to recognize particular kinds of distractions or the like.

In 5e both skeletons and zombies are subject to sleep, charm, fear affects, and so on. This is a deliberate simplification of the rules from 3.5, where undead weren't really immune to things so much as they had to be targeted by undead-specific versions of them. What is 'command undead' if not 'charm person, but works on undead'? What is 'turn undead' if not 'fear, but works on undead'?

Sleeping, or at least being inactive, during the day is a common trope for many if not all types of undead in stories and lore, so why would undead as a class be immune to sleep, magical or otherwise? Similarly, 'Shoot zombies in the head' and 'stab vampires in the heart' are such a ubiquitous bits of lore that it's a wonder designers ever thought 'Undead don't have weaknesses to target so they can't suffer criticals or sneak attack damage' should be a thing.

Point being, undead had a whole lot of really wonky, arbitrary immunities back in 3rd edition that never really made sense, and mostly just caused a bunch of needless complication and redundancy in the rules. Those who played 3e (and its knock offs) for a long time eventually just absorbed these things and stopped questioning them, and it may take a few stiff shakes to knock them out of your DM's head.


So anyway, yes, cutting words should work just fine on almost all undead, even with your DM's house rule, because 'mindless undead' mostly just isn't a thing anymore. You might want to discuss it with them in advance, though, just to remind them of that.

[Yuroch Kern]

Huh. Well, if you can't convince your DM otherwise, remember that CW is also Inspiration that works just fine on your buddies. If you go a grappling Valor instead (which is a total favorite), get Tavern Brawler and try to persuade DM to allow a Shove attack with your hand as an unarmed strike to proc the bonus grapple. Don't forget to Expertise Athletics too. Now you can conceivably let the Rogue and Paladin just destroy those immune to charm chumps easily. Medium armor is now available too if you have okay Dex too.