PDA

View Full Version : Making the Backstory During Gameplay



Maglubiyet
2017-01-17, 11:28 AM
I know some people hate making backstories for their characters, so one thing I've started to do is having people establish how their character knows one (or more) of the other PC's.

In the first session I'll go around the table and have everyone introduce their character. Then I'll ask them how their character knows the PC to their left. It seems to work well and open up the floodgates. For some reason people tend to make more elaborate histories when another person is involved.

"We're from the same village and left due to a romantic rivalry."

"I worked protection for him in the Syndicate and he still owes me money. That's why I'm here now and am sticking close to him."

"I saved her life from a lynch mob when she was caught thieving."

Anyone else do anything like this?

Stryyke
2017-01-17, 12:40 PM
I know some people hate making backstories for their characters, so one thing I've started to do is having people establish how their character knows one (or more) of the other PC's.

In the first session I'll go around the table and have everyone introduce their character. Then I'll ask them how their character knows the PC to their left. It seems to work well and open up the floodgates. For some reason people tend to make more elaborate histories when another person is involved.

"We're from the same village and left due to a romantic rivalry."

"I worked protection for him in the Syndicate and he still owes me money. That's why I'm here now and am sticking close to him."

"I saved her life from a lynch mob when she was caught thieving."

Anyone else do anything like this?

Sure. I play mainly online, though. I open a "Background" thread, and require everyone have a background in the thread before session 0. Then during session 0, during character creation, while I'm helping each person with their character, I have everyone else integrate their backstories. Having the backgrounds already written out helps with 3 things. 1) It gives their character, character. It's not just a bunch of numbers. It helps when the character encounters a dangerous situation that the player actually care if their character lives or dies. 2) It allows me to say no to certain things that I feel are not setting or level appropriate. 3) It helps maintain individuality during background integration.

One problem that I've seen happen is when two people know each other, somehow their characters start to meld into each other. While it's not necessarily a bad thing, I prefer that each person play their character with their own motives.

Conversely, there are games where you want disposable characters. So it depends on what you want from your campaign.

kyoryu
2017-01-17, 12:47 PM
That's pretty much by the book Fate, and most Apocalypse World variants have some variety of it as well.

Lacco
2017-01-17, 03:10 PM
I usually ask players to come up with some connection - and spiritual attributes in Riddle of Steel help that a lot (e.g. you are rewarded mechanically if you are saving your friend/lover/leader to whom you are loyal as opposed to total stranger).

However, I usually require skirt-length backstory detailing why the PC is doing what he is doing, if he has some family, and to provide some story hooks. I'm big fan of narrative discovery of PC's history, however have been told it was wrong to assume that PC's backstory is objective information, not subjective (that's what happened vs. that's what my PC saw, heard, was told...) :smallbiggrin:

Maglubiyet
2017-01-17, 03:17 PM
That's pretty much by the book Fate, and most Apocalypse World variants have some variety of it as well.

Yeah, that's where I borrowed it from. I use it in pretty much all my games now.


I'm big fan of narrative discovery of PC's history, however have been told it was wrong to assume that PC's backstory is objective information, not subjective (that's what happened vs. that's what my PC saw, heard, was told...) :smallbiggrin:

That's a good point. I usually don't differentiate between the two and let the player tell it however they want. What's important, I suppose, is how the character views it.

Lacco
2017-01-17, 03:26 PM
That's a good point. I usually don't differentiate between the two and let the player tell it however they want. What's important, I suppose, is how the character views it.

What's important is also how the player views it - some are rather touchy about their character backstories and view them as absolutely objective, not as their character's views (which may be incorrect, manipulated, or incomplete).

I usually take all backstories as "this is what my character has seen/felt/experienced" and think "ok, how can we make this into interesting (and sometimes even pleasant) surprise?"

Again, have been warned I shouldn't modify character backstories. Even if the results could be epic :smallbiggrin:

The Fury
2017-01-17, 05:36 PM
I know some people hate making backstories for their characters, so one thing I've started to do is having people establish how their character knows one (or more) of the other PC's.


Don't get me wrong, I don't hate making backstories, I'm just usually skeptical about how relevant any backstory will be to the campaign in general. Typically, a GM will have a direction in mind for the campaign and the players aren't privy to it, so making a backstory that's actually relevant to the campaign is difficult and oftentimes I'll end up with a character backstory that doesn't relate to the overall plot at all. When I do create a backstory for a character I prefer to be able to do it in broad strokes and go back to fill in the details when I understand the campaign plot and setting lore in better detail. Maybe this works better for players like me, as I like having characters share anecdotes about themselves with the other party members.

I feel similar about my character's relationships with the other characters-- I feel like I should pick one that reflects the way that they actually behave around one another. So I usually prefer to not have my character know the other party members all that well.

kyoryu
2017-01-17, 05:47 PM
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate making backstories, I'm just usually skeptical about how relevant any backstory will be to the campaign in general. Typically, a GM will have a direction in mind for the campaign and the players aren't privy to it, so making a backstory that's actually relevant to the campaign is difficult and oftentimes I'll end up with a character backstory that doesn't relate to the overall plot at all.

This is common.

In other games, though, the expectation is that the overall story and backstory will involve the characters and their histories directly.

It's best to have a good talk with the GM first and understand what expectations are.

Maglubiyet
2017-01-17, 06:05 PM
Typically, a GM will have a direction in mind for the campaign and the players aren't privy to it, so making a backstory that's actually relevant to the campaign is difficult and oftentimes I'll end up with a character backstory that doesn't relate to the overall plot at all.

I usually work backwards from that. If you tell me you come from a famous family of sculptors in the highland villages of the Whiteshod Mountains, I'll try to weave that into my game world and adventure hooks. Maybe I'll already have something similar established and can suggest a revision for the PC to fit into -- like maybe you're actually part of the Rossiani Cartel that operates out of the Ironback Hills.

If you take the time to build a backstory I hate to have it go to waste. I won't use it against you either, to coerce you into acting by kidnapping your sister or something. That seems to be a common fear too, that a backstory is going to be leveraged against you.


I feel similar about my character's relationships with the other characters-- I feel like I should pick one that reflects the way that they actually behave around one another. So I usually prefer to not have my character know the other party members all that well.

The way I do it doesn't necessarily imply any specific kind of interaction, just how the characters know each other. They're from the same town, they're cousins, they're employee/boss, etc. What the nature of that relationship is or how it evolves is up to the players.

The Fury
2017-01-17, 08:24 PM
I usually work backwards from that. If you tell me you come from a famous family of sculptors in the highland villages of the Whiteshod Mountains, I'll try to weave that into my game world and adventure hooks. Maybe I'll already have something similar established and can suggest a revision for the PC to fit into -- like maybe you're actually part of the Rossiani Cartel that operates out of the Ironback Hills.

See, that's cool if I understand that's what I'm getting into. Knowing nothing of a DM's style other than I'm supposed to come up with a backstory, I'm more likely to be vague. Out of the DMs I've played under, there's definitely some where I'd cut corners with. Others I'd try to get some details in that might be interesting story hooks. Essentially, I'm happy to provide story hooks to DMs if I have reason to think they'll be used.

John Longarrow
2017-01-17, 10:49 PM
For me, one trick I've used is "Five friends". I work with the player to have each character have 5 NPCs (or PCs some times) that they know/interact with and can use as contacts. This does a LOT to flesh out a character quickly when we work out who these people are, how the PC knows them, and what kind of relationship they have.

Next game I start I'm going to include this. Current game I didn't, but that's by player choice.

kyoryu
2017-01-17, 11:59 PM
See, that's cool if I understand that's what I'm getting into. Knowing nothing of a DM's style other than I'm supposed to come up with a backstory, I'm more likely to be vague. Out of the DMs I've played under, there's definitely some where I'd cut corners with. Others I'd try to get some details in that might be interesting story hooks. Essentially, I'm happy to provide story hooks to DMs if I have reason to think they'll be used.

Yup. This is, again, why "Let's play a roleplaying game!" is horribly inadequate, and expectations need to be set.

daniel_ream
2017-01-19, 12:29 AM
If you take the time to build a backstory I hate to have it go to waste. I won't use it against you either, to coerce you into acting by kidnapping your sister or something. That seems to be a common fear too, that a backstory is going to be leveraged against you.

We used to call that the "orphan sociopaths with amnesia" problem (as in, all the PCs are...)

The other end of the spectrum was players that showed up with pages and pages of detailed backstory, which they fully expected to figure in to the campaign (I have run campaigns that lasted for less time than it took some of the players to write up their PC backstory).

Once I used to tell players that I would stop reading at 250 words and that anything after that didn't happen. These days I don't even do that; describe your character in a couple of descriptive sentences and flesh it out in play. Show, don't tell.

Kami2awa
2017-01-19, 02:52 AM
I think backstories are a bit overrated:

- They are "tell, don't show", an example of bad storytelling. You never get to see the backstory itself in play.

- They put pressure on the GM to make the story come up in play. This often detracts from the overall plot. If this happens, all the action is suddenly focused on one PC, to the exclusion of all else, and the other players may not have a clue what is going on.

- PCs often don't live up to their heroic backstory, because their stats or the gameplay style don't support it well.

- The GM may not have the time or energy to read pages and pages of narrative. If they do, that time could be better spent improving their campaign for the benefit of the whole group.

Mith
2017-01-19, 08:58 AM
Usually I have played in pre-established worlds, where I didn't know enough to really weave a story. I usually play a wanderer, and tell the DM that if they have a hook idea to run it by me and I will help flesh it out.

My current campaign that I am playing in probably has the most detailed backstory for my character, and most of that was established as we went along. The backstory was in part to justify my own Player Knowledge compared to the rest of the table who are all new to D&D.

kyoryu
2017-01-19, 01:38 PM
I think backstories are a bit overrated:

They can be, depending on the game.


- They are "tell, don't show", an example of bad storytelling. You never get to see the backstory itself in play.

Not necessarily. The best ones really refer to the things that will continue to be an issue.


- They put pressure on the GM to make the story come up in play. This often detracts from the overall plot.

Alternately, they help the GM by coming up with story elements and relieving the burden of coming up with everything themselves.

It's kind of an Iron Chef thing, done right. "Here's these elements, and you can add others. Now make a tasty dish!"


If this happens, all the action is suddenly focused on one PC, to the exclusion of all else, and the other players may not have a clue what is going on.

Bad backstories can do this - where the backstory is literally just "I want to tell this story about this character and forget everything else". Most of the time you can weave that stuff into the "main" story so that everyone's involved.


- PCs often don't live up to their heroic backstory, because their stats or the gameplay style don't support it well.

This is a system mismatch/expectation problem, and can exist regardless of backstory.


- The GM may not have the time or energy to read pages and pages of narrative. If they do, that time could be better spent improving their campaign for the benefit of the whole group.

A) Reading the backstory *can* improve the game for the whole group
B) Pages and pages of backstory is almost certainly excessive
C) Reading a few pages can't take that long, really. Unless your players are coming up with hundreds of pages, I can't see reading a backstory taking more than ten minutes.

Deepbluediver
2017-01-19, 01:48 PM
- They are "tell, don't show", an example of bad storytelling. You never get to see the backstory itself in play.
Not everyone has to read everyone else's backstory, and it only won't ever come up if you're (IMO) bad at roleplaying.

For example, our group needed info from an NPC, and Oh! it just to happens that my character has ... ways of making him talk. Since we (mostly) weren't an evil group that time around, it had never come up before and caused no small amount of consternation. I could have kept quiet, like I had been mostly doing since my character was a shady rogue-type, but by looking for an opportunity to to casually slip this into the conversation it opened up some good RP.


They put pressure on the GM to make the story come up in play. This often detracts from the overall plot. If this happens, all the action is suddenly focused on one PC, to the exclusion of all else, and the other players may not have a clue what is going on.
I disagree- I like to leave hooks that the GM can use if they want, but I'm not going to get upset if I don't get to fight my long-lost rival who I left the village to search for. It's just an option, like any other plothook.


PCs often don't live up to their heroic backstory, because their stats or the gameplay style don't support it well.

The GM may not have the time or energy to read pages and pages of narrative. If they do, that time could be better spent improving their campaign for the benefit of the whole group.
I'm linking these two together, because "backstory" can mean different things to different people. In general, I think one paragraph per couple of levels is plenty. You can say you have prior adventuring experience or explain why you're well known without going into a detailed description of every single thing you've ever done to reach your current level.

A good backstory, IMO, gives enough info so that other people can get a sense of where you're coming from but leaves enough ambiguity that you can still roleplay on the fly. I don't always tell (or show) the rest of the group everything about my character that I've come up with, some of it is just for internal consistency, and some of it I do make up or add to as I go along.

Quertus
2017-01-19, 01:54 PM
I write backstory to help me get inside the character's head, help me roleplay them. I don't expect it to come up in play - in fact, I explicitly don't want it to.

To explain that: let's say I tried to describe my IRL family & friends to you. Then you tried to have them show up as NPCs in an RPG. You wouldn't get them right. They wouldn't be believable. Heck, depending on the RPG, I'd be more likely to kill them as imposters / doppelgangers than treat them as loved ones. It. Just. Doesn't. Work.


For me, one trick I've used is "Five friends". I work with the player to have each character have 5 NPCs (or PCs some times) that they know/interact with and can use as contacts. This does a LOT to flesh out a character quickly when we work out who these people are, how the PC knows them, and what kind of relationship they have.

Next game I start I'm going to include this. Current game I didn't, but that's by player choice.

I love for GMs to invent interesting recurring characters for me to interact with. Of course, which ones the PCs will like, and exactly what connection they will form with them, is almost always a puzzlement to GMs. Which is good - it's nice for the GM to get to experience surprise, too.

But, as I kinda said above, personally, I'd rather you introduce them to me than try (and fail) to use my ideas.

Jay R
2017-01-19, 01:59 PM
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate making backstories, I'm just usually skeptical about how relevant any backstory will be to the campaign in general.

I don't see any reason why it either should be or would be. In real life, very little of my backstory has anything to do with any new job or task or travel.

The purpose of a backstory is to help me understand the character more, so I know how he will react to each new experience. But it's perfectly all right for those experiences to be new.

The DM has my backstory, and there are a couple of plothooks he can use if he chooses to. But in real life, I don't know if my backstory as a Philmont Ranger or as somebody born in Vermont will be relevant to the next task I take on. Similarly, there is no reason for Gwystyl's ancestral relic or history within his clan to be tied to the current adventure, beyond the fact that it led me to that city at the right time.

In both cases, the background actually becomes relevant on rare occasions, and in both cases, it's kind of fun and exciting and surprising when that happens.

Max_Killjoy
2017-01-19, 02:00 PM
I think backstories are a bit overrated:

- They are "tell, don't show", an example of bad storytelling. You never get to see the backstory itself in play.


First, it's an RPG, not a writing workshop. RPGs are not a subset of fiction, they simply share some of the same concerns.

Second, it doesn't have to come up as a major plot point, to come up in play. Take for example the character who has as his "why are you out adventuring" reason, that he has both his family and his dead brother's family, that he needs to support, and they fell on hard times... none of this needs to become a big in-play deal, but maybe every time the group scores a major haul, he goes off to send a chunk of his share home via the Merchant's Guild money system (or whatever, depends on the setting). And he's loyal to his wife and doesn't "carouse" when the party hits the local tavern for a night of drinking, and won't wager on the dice and cards with them, because he's got to save up that money. It informs the character's actions and gives us a context for why he's frugal.




- They put pressure on the GM to make the story come up in play. This often detracts from the overall plot. If this happens, all the action is suddenly focused on one PC, to the exclusion of all else, and the other players may not have a clue what is going on.


Does this presume that there's an established plot that the players are following the GM through and that their "sidestories" will distract from, or just generally mean "weave into the story that's emerging from the game, as a major point?"

As above, some backstory elements don't need to be spotlighted for entire sessions to be relevant.

And, as a GM, I personally LOVE things in the character's backstory that give me something to build sessions from. See, the character who got word that his little sister was getting married, and the entire party went to his home village with him, which let me run some fun but not dire "someone tries to steal the dowry" mini-mystery type stuff, show off the culture of his homeland, get one of the players to open up about their own character's frustrated romance, etc. It was FUN, and the players had a GREAT time.




- PCs often don't live up to their heroic backstory, because their stats or the gameplay style don't support it well.


Gameplay-story disconnect, which isn't a problem specifically with backstories, and isn't even limited to TTRPGs... see also, "cutscene awesome" and "cutscene suck" in reference to video games.




- The GM may not have the time or energy to read pages and pages of narrative. If they do, that time could be better spent improving their campaign for the benefit of the whole group.


This presumes that backstory only comes in massive Tolstoyish volumes of single-spaced text.