Greenbound Tempalte and Hit Dice

[ComaVision]

From the Simple RAW Thread:


Q 439

Question about the Greenbound Template, in regards to HD:


Hit Dice: Change all current Hit Dice to d8s.

...bolding mine. If I'm reading this correctly, all HD at the time the template is acquired (both RHD and class HD) change to d8s, but any HD gained after that (i.e. new class levels) retain their normal value?


A439

In the case of class hit dice, you appear to be correct. New RHD would be d8s because of the Plant type.


A 439 correction

Not quite. Hit Dice from class levels (current or future) are NOT affected by the application of a template unless explicitly stated otherwise. Only Racial Hit Dice are affected (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060801a). But it is correct that the Greenbound template affects only current RHD - otherwise it would say "Change all current and future Hit Dice to d8s". If the greenbound creature gains more RHD later, they will correspond to the original creature type. If it gains more class levels, they will correspond to the class.

I disagree with HeadlessMermaid on two counts.

Firstly, the link she provided says:


Some templates change previously acquired Hit Dice and continue to change any additional Hit Dice the creature gains. Most templates, however, change only the creature's racial Hit Dice (that is, the Hit Dice it has before adding any class levels). Most templates are fairly explicit about what happens to the creature's Hit Dice, so just follow the instructions in the template.

The text does not say that a template does not effect class HD unless explicitly stated, it says most templates are explicit but you should follow their instructions. HeadlessMermaid may be correct by RAI but the RAW clearly says that all current HD are affected.

This is similar to the Necropolitan template that says HD are changed to d12. It does not explicitly state this affects class levels but that is always how I have seen it interpreted on these boards.

My second contention is that HeadlessMermaid said that future RHD after acquiring the Greenbound template would correspond to the original creature type. The template changes the creature type to Plant, so future RHD would be d8s (Plant HD). You would not have a Plant type getting d6 HD if it were formerly a Fey.

What does the rest of the Playground think?

[HeadlessMermaid]

Hello! Thanks for opening a thread. :)

I'd like to note that Greenbound, like so many templates, does not simply change the creature type to Plant, but also grants the subtype Augmented. So for example, a Greenbound Wolf would have the types Plant (Augmented Animal). Augmented is a subtype explained in the MM, and the gist of it is: "A creature that has the augmented subtype usually has the traits of its current type, but the features of its original type."

So for your second contention, I must insist. "Type: Plant" doesn't supersede everything, not when there's an "Augmented" subtype to complicate things. And Greenbound explicitly says "all current Hit Dice" as opposed to "all current and future Hit Dice" (which other templates that change your type and give you the Augmented suptype do, in fact, mention).

For your first contention, whether class levels count or not, I must admit that... I'm not entirely sure from where I know this. :smalltongue: Here's a link to Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?207928-Urpriest-s-Monstrous-Monster-Handbook), which agrees with me, though it's not proof of RAW. I sincerely hope it's not mistaken, and I also look forward to the Playground's opinion.

[ComaVision]

So for your second contention, I must insist. "Type: Plant" doesn't supersede everything, not when there's an "Augmented" subtype to complicate things. And Greenbound explicitly says "all current Hit Dice" as opposed to "all current and future Hit Dice" (which other templates that change your type and give you the Augmented suptype do, in fact, mention).


I absolutely agree now, thank you for the explanation. I was not aware of the function of the Augmented subtype.

[Thurbane]

Thanks for clarifying this further! :smallsmile:

[Troacctid]

You change what the template says to change, so it depends on the template. If it says to change all racial hit dice, you only change the racial hit dice. If it says to change all hit dice, you change all hit dice. Some templates do it one way, some templates do it the other way. Just follow the text.