Detect Hostile Intent - situational?

[Kuu Lightwing]

I tried to use this power, but so far it did nothing for me. The problem is the range - from 30 feet away it's usually too late. "You see an Ettin charging you. When it comes closer, you feel two hostile minds approaching you" - ya, really helpful. It might work for invisible or hard to detect enemies, I guess, but limited duration makes it a bit hard to keep active all the time. "Can be caught flat-footed" part is houseruled to only work against enemies that are actually in range of the power, so this makes it less useful, too. So, I guess the power is mostly useful against rogues that sneak up to the party and try to slay you (30 feet is normal SA range after all)?

[Troacctid]

It's mostly useful because you can't be caught flat-footed regardless of how far away your enemies are.

What's wrong with 10 minutes/level? That's a pretty good duration.

[Kuu Lightwing]

It's mostly useful because you can't be caught flat-footed regardless of how far away your enemies are.

What's wrong with 10 minutes/level? That's a pretty good duration.

Like I said, at our table it's houseruled to only work for enemies that are in the range of power.

For duration... well, at the moment I play a homebrewed warrior-type character with a relatively limited PP reserve (level 9, 61 pp), so manifesting it several times a day puts a dent in it. The problem is that I don't think it did anything for me so far.

[Troacctid]

Probably don't take the power then would be my advice. *nods sagely*

[Ashtagon]

Bribing a guard who has no intention of staying bought.

Negotiating the details of a question from some bad guys who have disguised themselves as good guys.

Figuring out if he dragon wants to eat you or is just a bit grumpy this morning.

Not every situation needs to be in a combat.

[Kuu Lightwing]

It says that the power detects active aggression, so I'm not sure if it's applicable in first two situations. If you are talking about sense motive thing, what stops you from making the checks in the first place?

As for the dragon, getting within 30 feet range of a potentially aggressive dragon doesn't strike me as a good idea.

[Fizban]

There's no sense motive check to determine someone's "hostility," but weather you're looking for a "hunch" or shiffing out enchantments, it normally takes at least a minute. Free action is significantly better. Also alerts you to assassins, and as long as the DM understands that aggression != physical violence, lots of other problem people.

[Kuu Lightwing]

True. Still, it makes it very situational, especially since not that many psionicists would have sense motive as a class skill anyways. Very rarely useful in combat, rarely useful outside of combat.

[Deophaun]

Like I said, at our table it's houseruled to only work for enemies that are in the range of power.
If you houserule that a power is useless, then the power will be useless.

For duration... well, at the moment I play a homebrewed warrior-type character with a relatively limited PP reserve (level 9, 61 pp), so manifesting it several times a day puts a dent in it.
+1 manifester arrows cost 287 gold each.

[Kuu Lightwing]

If you houserule that a power is useless, then the power will be useless.

+1 manifester arrows cost 287 gold each.

It wasn't quite my decision to make it work like that, y'know? :)

As for manifester arrows, well, I didn't even try to bring it to my DM, but for a good reason - it's probably an oversight. Cognizance crystals cost 9,000 for one holding 5pp and you have to recharge them.

[Deophaun]

It wasn't quite my decision to make it work like that, y'know? :)
Yeah, but it's odd to ask "Is detect magic useless? BTW, we ruled that detect magic doesn't detect magic."

As for manifester arrows, well, I didn't even try to bring it to my DM, but for a good reason - it's probably an oversight. Cognizance crystals cost 9,000 for one holding 5pp and you have to recharge them.
Yes, cognizance crystals are terrible and no one would ever use them. As the MIC states:

The magic item prices in this book aren’t the result of any intricate formulas or detailed equations. Instead, each price is set individually by comparing the item (and more important, its likely perceived value to player characters) to other items commonly used by PCs. That last part bears emphasizing again: It doesn’t do much good to say that a new item is worth about the same as a magnificent cape of divine eminence if the latter item is priced so exorbitantly that characters aren’t interested in buying or keeping it.
Doesn't mean that manifester arrows are well priced, but it does mean the price for a cognizance crystal is wrong.

[Zombimode]

Detect Hostile Intent is the sole reason that stifels my attempt at introducing (psionic) Yuan-Ti Purebloods as an LA-free Player race. They get it as an at-will power, and by god, free always-active Detect Hostile Intent creates a serious headache for the DM.
The worldbuilding implications when trying to incorporate Yuan-Ti as a normal part of Society are also staggering.

[Kuu Lightwing]

Yeah, but it's odd to ask "Is detect magic useless? BTW, we ruled that detect magic doesn't detect magic."

Well, it still does what it's supposed to do. DM probably just doesn't want to let me have Foresight as 2rd level power... Is it even RAI?


Yes, cognizance crystals are terrible and no one would ever use them. As the MIC states:

Doesn't mean that manifester arrows are well priced, but it does mean the price for a cognizance crystal is wrong.

Well, we have two options - one is overpriced into uselessness, and the second one is underpriced so ridiculously that nobody allows it. Makes both options pretty much unusable.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Well, it still does what it's supposed to do. DM probably just doesn't want to let me have Foresight as 2rd level power... Is it even RAI?
It does not do what it is supposed to do. What it is supposed to do is clearly spelled out and you removed part of it. Which brings us back to the question of: "Is detect magic useless? BTW, we ruled that detect magic doesn't detect magic." At the very least tell people about critical houserules when asking questions...

[Deophaun]

At the very least tell people about critical houserules when asking questions...
It's in the OP.

As for the question of if it's RAI to have foresight as a level 2 power, all you need to know is synchronicity is level 1.

[ZamielVanWeber]

It's in the OP.

As for the question of if it's RAI to have foresight as a level 2 power, all you need to know is synchronicity is level 1.

Oops, so it is. My apologies for that. Also Detect Hostile Intent is strictly worse foresight that has severe issues against high level NPCs with gear, so there is that.

[Kuu Lightwing]

Yup, the houserule is in the OP.

And yes, Synchronicity is level one. But on itself it doesn't break the game, does it? It requires Linked Power to make it broken, which is not quite the same thing as having Foresight as level 2 power. I'm really interested if that's RAI for the power. It could be, but is it really?

But in any case, stop being angry at me, as if I made that rule, okay? I'm playing a level 9 character with 61 hp, that relies on high AC (from DEX and dodge bonuses), miss chance and immediate actions to survive melee combat. Take a guess which way I would prefer this power to work?

[ZamielVanWeber]

Yup, the houserule is in the OP.

And yes, Synchronicity is level one. But on itself it doesn't break the game, does it? It requires Linked Power to make it broken, which is not quite the same thing as having Foresight as level 2 power. I'm really interested if that's RAI for the power. It could be, but is it really?
It does break the game nicely actually. Linked Power let's it generate extra action, but the ability to declare actions in response to literally any stimulus is pretty amazing and at 3 points the downsides are pretty small. Given how easily psion's can generate extra actions it reminds me of the old Legacy High Tide/Reset decks: in response to you winning the game I spend 20 minutes fiddling with cards and win, myself, instead.

As for RAI we have the RAW that unequivocally says it blocks flat-footed, has clear language, and is not the result of the interaction with something else in the same or another book. Short of asking the person who wrote Detect Hostile Intent what they meant I would say it is likely RAI that is blocks flat-footed, period, except in cases of immunity to mind-affecting.

[icefractal]

Foresight doesn't just make you not flat-footed though, it gives you an action before danger would strike. Some people consider this flavor text, but if you look at the spell description:

In addition, the spell gives you a general idea of what action you might take to best protect yourselfWhat would be the point of this if you weren't able to take that action?

Shouting a warning, yanking a person back, and even telepathically communicating (via an appropriate spell) can all be accomplished before some danger befalls the subject, provided you act on the warning without delay.Shoving/pulling someone is an attack action, so a standard action if done by itself.

Which seems appropriate for a 9th level spell.

[Deophaun]

Shoving/pulling someone is an attack action, so a standard action if done by itself.
No, a bullrush/drag is an attack action. It's only an attack if you're trying to move them into a different 5' square. If you're yanking them back a foot within their current square, that's no more worthy of an attack roll than a hand shake or a hug.

[Zanos]

But in any case, stop being angry at me, as if I made that rule, okay? I'm playing a level 9 character with 61 hp, that relies on high AC (from DEX and dodge bonuses), miss chance and immediate actions to survive melee combat. Take a guess which way I would prefer this power to work?
I don't think anyones angry at you, but you're insisting the power is bad when it's actually your DMs houserule gutting the power to make it bad. Detect Hostile Intent is a pretty great power when your dm hasn't taken a tire iron to both its kneecaps.

But you are correct, with that houserule in place the power is bad and I would not have taken it. Very few combats start within 30ft of eachother, although I suppose it does still prevent people from stabbing your kidneys when you aren't looking.


No, a bullrush/drag is an attack action. It's only an attack if you're trying to move them into a different 5' square. If you're yanking them back a foot within their current square, that's no more worthy of an attack roll than a hand shake or a hug.
Manipulating an object is a move action, so manipulating a creature should be at least that.

[Deophaun]

Manipulating an object is a move action, so manipulating a creature should be at least that.
That's fair. Attempting to conflate "yank"--like what you would do with an inattentive pedestrian about to step into the street as a city bus pulls up--with an action that requires a creature to have been grappled and pinned, however, is not.

[Psyren]

Like I said, at our table it's houseruled to only work for enemies that are in the range of power.

"Power X is useless because we houseruled it to be useless" sounds like a pretty good reason not to take that power.

[Kuu Lightwing]

"Power X is useless because we houseruled it to be useless" sounds like a pretty good reason not to take that power.

I admit that I could have worded the OP better. Something like "is foresight-like effect the only useful part of detect hostile intent?" because that's clearly not the only thing that power does. Also I thought that it's a pretty common houserule, because I've read about it before.

[Crake]

Yeah, but it's odd to ask "Is detect magic useless? BTW, we ruled that detect magic doesn't detect magic."

Yes, cognizance crystals are terrible and no one would ever use them. As the MIC states:

Doesn't mean that manifester arrows are well priced, but it does mean the price for a cognizance crystal is wrong.

Cognizance crystals are priced the same as pearls of power, and people generally recommend getting those, so I can't quite say I agree with you regarding the crystal's pricing.

Any player who tried to get manifester ammunition at my table would be met with a swift slap over the head.

[Deophaun]

Cognizance crystals are priced the same as pearls of power, and people generally recommend getting those, so I can't quite say I agree with you regarding the crystal's pricing.
Pearls of power a) do not require you to spend an equivalent spell-slot to charge them before you can use them and b) allow you to use the spell so cast at full power. Do you often find yourself buying things simply because they are the same price as something else that is actually recommended?