What's a class subtype you'd like to see, but are surprised it hasn't appeared yet?

[Finback]

So we have regular new subtypes of classes appearing regularly, with the Unearthed Arcana, but are there any builds you feel should have been done?

Two come to my mind -

a) an Urban Ranger. Granted, it's easy enough to make one, but I'm thinking a more specifically built one - ribbons could be better bonuses to tracking in urban environments (e.g. following someone through a crowded marketplace, where tracks won't be preserved), and perhaps they could get a little splash of magic that reflects this. I imagine someone who can "talk" to stones or buildings, with a solid understanding of local history, including knowing who to talk to, to resolve a problem. Someone who chats to pigeons and rats (eyes everywhere), and never gets lost, even when drunk.

b) a more Str/grappling based monk. It's a trope, but there's the Big Guy, who isn't nimble, or fast, but can punch a stone in half. I'd up the unarmed strike die one level to reflect this.

I can think of others, which ultimately end up really more about flavour on existing classes, like a Master of Arms (a la Gerrard Capashen), who would basically just be a Battlemaster.

Does anyone else have others in mind?

[JakOfAllTirades]

I want my Master Thrower, dag nabbit!

[Dimers]

Cleric of Luck/Fortune. For that matter, a rogue path based on luck would be worth seeing too.

Silver-tongued charmer, for a rogue.

Thunder bard.

Angel warlock patron.

And, well, not that I want to see it, but I am baffled that WotC hasn't made it anyway -- anything related to the word "dragon" aside from sorcerers. Historically they have given dragons nearly as much attention as wizards.

[Ninja_Prawn]

MFoV has you covered!


a) an Urban Ranger.

b) a more Str/grappling based monk.

Vigilante (http://www.middlefingerofvecna.com/2016/08/vigilante.html) or Bounty Hunter (http://www.middlefingerofvecna.com/2015/09/bounty-hunter.html) might suit for the ranger.

I don't think we have a strength/grappling monk, as it goes. We have a few barbarians that work along similar lines, though.


I want my Master Thrower, dag nabbit!

Master Thrower (http://www.middlefingerofvecna.com/2015/05/master-thrower_15.html).


Cleric of Luck/Fortune. For that matter, a rogue path based on luck would be worth seeing too.

Silver-tongued charmer, for a rogue.

Thunder bard.

Angel warlock patron.

And, well, not that I want to see it, but I am baffled that WotC hasn't made it anyway -- anything related to the word "dragon" aside from sorcerers. Historically they have given dragons nearly as much attention as wizards.

Luck (http://www.middlefingerofvecna.com/2015/05/luck-domain.html) domain, Gambler (http://www.middlefingerofvecna.com/2015/08/gambler.html) rogue.

The Slick Mountebank I wrote for the Tundra Update (http://www.middlefingerofvecna.com/2016/12/tundra-update-preview.html) is pretty much a silver-tongued charmer, but that's Patreon-only content at the moment.

College of Banshees (http://www.middlefingerofvecna.com/2016/03/college-of-banshees.html) is pretty thunderous...

Solar (http://www.middlefingerofvecna.com/2015/07/the-solar.html) patron.

We've got three dragon subclasses right now (Way of the Dragon (http://www.middlefingerofvecna.com/2016/11/way-of-dragon.html), Path of the Dragonheart (http://www.middlefingerofvecna.com/2016/10/path-of-dragonheart.html), Dragon Knight (http://www.middlefingerofvecna.com/2016/07/dragon-knight.html)), but more are on the way!

[xyianth]

A barbarian path that represents the inward rage of a meticulous killer. Something along the lines of a Dexter. (from the tv series)

[Millstone85]

Otherworldly Patron: The Elemental
You patron is one of the powerful beings who call the Inner Planes home or show mastery of the elements, such as the primordials, the genies and some giants.

Seriously, we got so much stuff on fire-air-water-earth and there is no way to make a pact?

[Blas_de_Lezo]

There is a clear lack of the following archetypes:

Sorcerer: Elementalist origin.

Wizard: Universalist arcane tradition (years back, wizards didn't need to choose a specific school).

Fighter: any kind Versatile-weapon fighting archetype (versatile weapons are the poor cousins of 5e). Longswords happen to be the most common weapons but if we take rules into account, nobody uses them. Strenght based fighters use two handed weapons, and Dex-based fighters or sword and board stylers use rapiers. Even elves, who are listed as loving longswords (pun not intented) are not designed to use longswords (instead, they use rapiers). This could be solved with an archetype (or a fighting style) that gives some love to the longsword and other versatile weapons.

Rogue: any Charisma based archetype.

Also, I miss the Beguiler a lot (from PH2 of 3.5). I suppose it could be designed as a sorcerer origin.

[mephnick]

I want my Master Thrower, dag nabbit!

You just have to remove/lighten the drawing restrictions on light weapons and allow the ranged feats to interact with thrown weapons. WotC could have easily made throwing weapons a valid fighting style in the PhB but..didn't..for some reason.

[rlc]

I'm guessing it's coming with (or at least after) the mystic, but a cerebremancer would be nice. Strength monk would also be nice, but that's been mentioned.

[Millstone85]

Sorcerer: Elementalist origin.It is worth noting that, fluff-wise, any otherworldly patron should double as a sorcerous origin and vice versa.
* Some draconic bloodlines come from an ancestor "who made a bargain with a dragon".
* It is easy to play a tiefling as an infernal sorcerer rather than a repeat of past mistakes.
* Wild magic is sometimes explained by an encounter with the Far Realm.
* Surely there are elves who express their fey ancestry more than others.
* Etc.

[Joe the Rat]

b) a more Str/grappling based monk. It's a trope, but there's the Big Guy, who isn't nimble, or fast, but can punch a stone in half. I'd up the unarmed strike die one level to reflect this. I'm seeing this one more as a Barbarian Archetype than a Monk one The rest of the barbarian suite synergises better with the Big Guy. A path that grants monk-style unarmed damage, and some sort of bonus action unarmed strike would get the core of it. Of course, that would require wotc to flex on their "only monks can do this" take on unarmed combat.

There's a whole host of things that I'd like to see, but not a lot I'm surprised at not being here yet.

Blas's Versatile Fighter archetype would be interesting to see - someone who can shift two handed to open handed to two-weapon (with feat, natch) freely. It's just that the current mechanic options don't really give you shifting benefits. It's the Duelist fighting style that kills it. It effectively raises the damage range of a single one-handed weapon, but enough so that going two-handed on a versatile weapon does less damage if you have that style.

And people do use longswords. And battle axes. The reason you take a rapier in S&B is because you are dex based. There's no benefit to rapier for a strength user.

[rlc]

Also, cancer mage would probably make sense as a sorcerer, but probably with a more pg13 name.

[Millstone85]

Also, cancer mage would probably make sense as a sorcerer, but probably with a more pg13 name.Animancer, biomancer or vivimancer. The guy who thinks zombies and flesh golems are so last season.

[Naanomi]

I'd like to see more Pact Boon options. I added Mask (intimidation/fear effects) and Totem (boost hex and other curse effects)

[Dman]

even though itd be hard to balance id still like to see a plant summoner/controller of some form. basically Posion ivy in some form even though its already got the poisions n such coverd.

[tsotate]

Cleric of Luck/Fortune.

That hole surprised me, too. I ended up playing a diviner wizard who was an acolyte of Tymora, but a useful Luck domain would have been nice.

[Potato_Priest]

Oath of Freedom! For all those chaotic good types who specifically fight tyranny!

A druid subclass with an animal companion.

A druid subclass with plant-specific wildshape and powers.

[Spellbreaker26]

And people do use longswords. And battle axes. The reason you take a rapier in S&B is because you are dex based. There's no benefit to rapier for a strength user.

Actually rapiers have the advantage of allowing the user to use the defensive duellist feat. Even if your attack stat is strength, so long as you just have 13 dex you can take the feat and improve your AC. Then you can go back to attacking using the rapier with strength, with no difference to using a longsword one handed.

The class subtypes I'd like to see are:

Ur-Priest (I see a lot of people who want to play a non-worshipping cleric)

Some type of ranged paladin like the Holy Avenger (again, it sounds like what a lot of people would like to play)

[jaappleton]

Earth / Stone Domain Cleric
Fortune Domain Cleric

Elementalist Sorcerer

Oath of the Arcane Paladin

Warlock Patron: Solar
Warlock Patron: Elemental
Warlock Patron: Dragon

New Warlock Pacts

[Joe the Rat]

Actually rapiers have the advantage of allowing the user to use the defensive duellist feat. Even if your attack stat is strength, so long as you just have 13 dex you can take the feat and improve your AC. Then you can go back to attacking using the rapier with strength, with no difference to using a longsword one handed.

The class subtypes I'd like to see are:

Ur-Priest (I see a lot of people who want to play a non-worshipping cleric)

Some type of ranged paladin like the Holy Avenger (again, it sounds like what a lot of people would like to play)
Hadn't thought of that one. I may just be used to seeing low dex S&B tankers. Thanks for pointing that out.

Ur-Priest is on my "DO WANT" list, but not my "why not yet" list. I have high hopes for the 30th.

[JumboWheat01]

I only have two major surprises so far...

A Trade or Travel domain for Clerics. Gods who focus on such things are getting stuck with the Trickery domain so far. And that doesn't really make a lot of sense. These are gods of trade or traveling, not trickery.

A Drunken Brawler monk. I wanna get down with some drunk-fu, gods blast it!

New UAs for Sorcerer, Warlock and Wizard aren't out yet, so I'm gonna hold off on them until they come around.

((Edit: Of course, I'm on the lines of "official" releases, from WotC. I'm sure there are PLENTY of homebrews out there...))

[The Shadowdove]

Paladin assassin (sneaky smiter/holy stalker)

Thrower

Shadowmancer

Weapons master

Charger

Timemancer

Dwarven defender

Palemaster

Shadowdancer

Revised favored soul

Warmage archetype

Not a class, but expanded weapon list.

[Morphic tide]

PRCs in general, more specifically ones that make class combinations that make narrative sense work mechanically. Like making Paladin/Cleric work. Or Paladin/Monk. Also, Sorcerer/Wizard as a more balanced setup than the dip that normally happens. Also one for Warlock/Sorcerer focused on a sub-optimal playstyle, making the playstyle keep up with the optimal ones. Bladelock comes to mind...

A Fae based Bardic College. Not much more to say...

A Fighter subclass that relies on the Fighter's massive number of ASIs to work, having abilities that key off of more stats than most classes can handle. Furthermore, having it build to play noticeably differently based on your stat selection. I'm talking stuff like having one ability use three attributes to scale different things level of MAD. The most basic thing I can think of is using Dex for the accuracy of the ability and Int and Wis for damage on the ability and Save DC of a rider effect, respectively. Sounds painfully MAD, doesn't it?

A Warlock pact for Celestials. Because there's got to be well intentioned extremists among the Celestials who are willing to make Pacts. What to get from it? Well, healing spells is one thing to do...

Edit: PRCs made to act like full classes. Something like having Arcane Archer as a 'base' class, but being clearly made to act as a PRC for a ranged Fighter/Wizard multiclass. It's a thing that the 5e multiclassing setup lets happen that no previous edition could let happen. Sure, you can use them as your only class, but multiclassing into them is both much more versatile and quite clearly a PRC type affair. It also gives a good excuse to stick subclasses in PRCs without making it seem pretentious.

[JumboWheat01]

A Warlock pact for Celestials. Because there's got to be well intentioned extremists among the Celestials who are willing to make Pacts. What to get from it? Well, healing spells is one thing to do...

While not Celestial, there is a more Divine-based Warlock pact (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/faithful). Very support spell happy.

[Millstone85]

I'd like to see more Pact Boon options. I added Mask (intimidation/fear effects)I never thought of that but some manner of possessing mask would make a great boon. Maybe akin to a barbarian rage. "Somebody stop me!"

It would look weird next to Mask of Many Faces, though.


and Totem (boost hex and other curse effects)That could easily be too strong.


Ur-Priest (I see a lot of people who want to play a non-worshipping cleric)Technically, the DMG already offers approaches to divine magic that do not involve a personified object of worship. In fact, the default fluff of the druid is a relationship with a multitude of spirits and forces, while that of the paladin is a commitment to an ideal.

[Morphic tide]

While not Celestial, there is a more Divine-based Warlock pact (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/faithful). Very support spell happy.

I want my healing out of a single class Warlock! Not this pile of utility spells!

[Spellbreaker26]

Technically, the DMG already offers approaches to divine magic that do not involve a personified object of worship. In fact, the default fluff of the druid is a relationship with a multitude of spirits and forces, while that of the paladin is a commitment to an ideal.

I agree with you, but the people I play with do not, and don't want the mechanics of clerics to be restricted to worshipers (luckily none of them have shown any interest in playing a cleric so far, so it's not an issue at present); therefore, I want a divine domain that can not only serve as a cleric who has lost their faith/never had any but also changes the Divine Intervention ability to something more appropriate.

We even had a big argument about it. The clincher for me was when I remembered Fall-From-Grace from Planescape Torment, who is a particularly annoying example of several defied stereotypes.

[Sir cryosin]

My player wants to play a fanali's from Magi: kingdom of magic. So he wants to play a unarmed barbarian. So i would say a unarmed barbarian would be cool to see.

[Millstone85]

The clincher for me was when I remembered Fall-From-Grace from Planescape Torment, who is a particularly annoying example of several defied stereotypes.I never played that game but the "Fall-From-Grace" bit made me remember that Ur-priests are supposed to be sinister. Perhaps that was the stereotype being defied there?

[Spellbreaker26]

I never played that game but the "Fall-From-Grace" bit made me remember that Ur-priests are supposed to be sinister. Perhaps that was the stereotype being defied there?

Fall-from-Grace is just a regular cleric as far as I'm aware, it's just that she serves no god. That was the sterotype being broken. (Well that, and she's somehow a Lawful Neutral chaste succubus).

I think you're right, Ur-Priests were evil restricted in previous editions. However, this edition is generally a lot more loose with stuff like that -no more alignment restrictions, even for Blackguards.

[JumboWheat01]

While I admit to not having much experience with all the settings, clerics without gods are totally a normal thing, though they are more often druids than clerics. You could have faith in life and the power of healing, and that faith enables your divine spells and gives you the life domain. Or you could have faith in the power of the storm, and that enables a tempest cleric for you.

Heck, in Eberron, there's no proof that the gods really exist, and yet clerics still exist. The Blood of Vol in particular focuses on the divinity in one's self. And you're most certainly not a god, so how are you gaining divine spells? Though Eberron, admittedly, does like to subvert and invert a lot of things.

It's the Realms where they are really picky. No divine spells for you UNLESS you worship a god, no matter if you're cleric, druid, paladin or ranger, and even if you don't want to use divine spells, you still need to worship one or it's Kelemvor's wall for you. Realms gods are really picky.

[Spellbreaker26]

While I admit to not having much experience with all the settings, clerics without gods are totally a normal thing, though they are more often druids than clerics. You could have faith in life and the power of healing, and that faith enables your divine spells and gives you the life domain. Or you could have faith in the power of the storm, and that enables a tempest cleric for you.


Except that makes no sense with some of the cleric's class features. It would be like having a Warlock without a patron.

First of all, Divine Intervention is the most noticeable, but there are other ones. Like their spell list. A cleric knows every spell on their list, because they don't draw their power from within themselves, they get it from above.

Druids do the same thing and don't have to have a god, because they use nature - then why play a cleric, is what I think. Why not play a class that fits the lore you want better? There's nothing wrong with Druids or Rangers or Paladins, all of which are good at healing as well. Why sand down the unique roleplaying aspect of the cleric and try to make it more like the other classes? (This isn't aimed at you, this is a general question I ask when I hear this argument.)

And even if you go with the faith argument (and ignore/refluff Divine Intervention), then that means that they still need to believe in a god. They might not have proof that a god exists in a setting like Eberron, but they still believe in one, not the storms or the fire or what have you. That's what defines their magic.

[Millstone85]

A cleric knows every spell on their list, because they don't draw their power from within themselves, they get it from above.

Druids do the same thing and don't have to have a god, because they use nature - then why play a cleric, is what I think.What if you want to get your powers from the heavens? Not from the immortals who live there but directly from the philosophical essence of the Outer Planes, to which you would have attuned through meditation and devotion. Yes, it is what paladins do, but you are a full caster.

[jitzul]

A monk that is useful to the party when they fight something with a halfway decent con score.

[2D8HP]

A spell-less Ranger that is not lame!

Not like:

https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/modifying-classes

No confusing Battlemaster like "Maneuvers", and in a real hard print book please!

[goatmeal]

A rogueish bard archetype (unless they've done it already and i missed it, only have read PHB so far).

[tkuremento]

Rogue: any Charisma based archetype.

Was Swashbuckler in SCAG not Charisma based?

[tkuremento]

I'd personally like to see a Druid with a plant companion, like a treantling or something. I love plant-based classes and abilities for some reason, even if 5e isn't heavy on plants right now. I also would like a Rogue Knife Master Thrower kinda guy. I was looking at a Rogue with a 3 level EK dip to be able to recall daggers as a bonus action for a but I can't seem to get adv often enough with throwing a dagger. Sharpshooter was also a must just to make sure I wasn't getting disadvantage which would cancel it out if I did have it.

[The Ship's dog]

A strength based Rogue, perhaps they could get sneak attack with light clubs or cudgels.

[XmonkTad]

Still waiting for them to being back Incarnum/the Incarnate. But that's not really a sub-class. More on topic, I feel like the Defiant is a better "non-believer" subclass for cleric than Ur-priest. I would like to see Ur-priest come back, but I don't know if I would make it a cleric subclass or something else. Defiant seems like a more direct parallel to oathbreaker.

Also, Evangelist bards? Bring back the diplomancer!

[Kobard]

Rogue
* Shadowdancer

Cleric
* Night/Darkness
* Travel/Trade/Luck

Paladin
* Freedom/Liberation

Wizard
* Generalist
* Loremaster

Artificer
* Wand Duelist

[JumboWheat01]

Rogue
* Shadowdancer

That's been pretty much moved to the Monk.



Paladin
* Freedom/Liberation

Oooooooh... that sounds tasty.

[Kobard]

That's been pretty much moved to the Monk.But one that is also appropriate for a rogue. And judging by the popularity of shadow-subclasses for rogues, DMsGuild doesn't share your hangups on that fact. :smallwink:

[Tanarii]

Actually rapiers have the advantage of allowing the user to use the defensive duellist feat. Even if your attack stat is strength, so long as you just have 13 dex you can take the feat and improve your AC. Then you can go back to attacking using the rapier with strength, with no difference to using a longsword one handed.If you want to wear Heavy Armor (higher AC) or be a Shield Master, you're almost certainly going to use Str, not Dex. So ... Str-build and Longsword & Shield is pretty much the standard for Fighters & Paladins. When I see Rapier & Shield, it's typically a Ranger build.

[Coffee_Dragon]

a) an Urban Ranger.

The UA ranger update raised a few eyebrows with its lack of restrictions to natural environments. Suddenly the ranger was more at home in the city than the rogue.


Someone who chats to pigeons

Sounds like a triple sweet idea (http://gunnerkrigg.com/?p=564)

[Spellbreaker26]

If you want to wear Heavy Armor (higher AC) or be a Shield Master, you're almost certainly going to use Str, not Dex. So ... Str-build and Longsword & Shield is pretty much the standard for Fighters & Paladins. When I see Rapier & Shield, it's typically a Ranger build.

Yes, but you should never dump dexterity, because it governs both initiative and one of the more common saves. Therefore, if you roll well and are the tank, and you are trying to decide where to put that 13, you could very well put it in dex even if you're a STR-based fighter. Therefore, if you are going through your feat options, you could very well go for defensive duelist for the extra AC.

But if you take Fighting Style: Duellist, a longsword is no better than a rapier aside from being cheaper, because using it two-handed would be vastly worse than using it one-handed with the damage bonus.

[Tanarii]

Yes, but you should never dump dexterity, because it governs both initiative and one of the more common saves.Lol tell that to every Str Fighter, Paladins, and HA Clerics out there. Those characters almost have Dex 8, especially if PB is available and they can dump both Int and Dex.

[baticeer]

A fighter or barbarian focused on unarmed attacks. It seems weird that you can't easily play a "buff brawler guy who beats people up with no weapon" character concept.

[Spellbreaker26]

Lol tell that to every Str Fighter, Paladins, and HA Clerics out there. Those characters almost have Dex 8, especially if PB is available and they can dump both Int and Dex.

I mean, if you have no other choice then dump it. But my point was that if you have the duelist fighting style Rapier is never worse, and there is a specific circumstance if you rolled well for your stats that it could be better. That was the original point.

But really, I'm shocked that any of those class choices would dump dex before int. Maybe if you were trying to get a particular concept, but for a character that neither stat matters to, Dex is just way, way better than int. For skills, for saves, for weapons, and for initiative.

These are the abilities as I see them:

CON, DEX/WIS, CHA, STR/INT.

Basically, you pick your most important stats first, then (assuming that the concept doesn't require a high stat in anything) this is the order of importance for the off-stats. Con governs health and is an important save, Dex and Wis are of similar importance of saves and both govern important skills (Stealth and Perception) and so are of equal importance. Charisma governs Social interaction and has a few important saves (but less than the previous three), Strength governs carrying weight and intelligence lore checks; neither of which are likely to come up a lot unless you're the character who deals with that stuff (the party strongman who kicks down the door or the wizard who knows everything).

[Spellbreaker26]

A fighter or barbarian focused on unarmed attacks. It seems weird that you can't easily play a "buff brawler guy who beats people up with no weapon" character concept.

As a matter of fact, I was trying to create one earlier, and came to the conclusion that a rogue grappler was the optimum choice. I think a Monk subclass focusing on Strength would be the best solution to this gap.

[Tanarii]

But really, I'm shocked that any of those class choices would dump dex before int. Maybe if you were trying to get a particular concept, but for a character that neither stat matters to, Dex is just way, way better than int. For skills, for saves, for weapons, and for initiative.
It's just conjecture on my part, but I think it's mostly because players are loathe to play an Int 8 character. Cha 8 usually for the same reasons. So when it's Standard Array (like my campaign) I typically see the 8 put in Dex before Int or even Cha for Heavy Armor types. I mean, you'd think that -1 Dex saves, Skills & Initiative would outweigh -1 to Intelligence checks or Charisma checks (ignoring the relatively negligible saves). But no an 8 in Int clearly requires viewing the character as really stupid, and in Cha as horribly disfigured or disgusting, whereas merely incredibly clumsy is fine ... /smh ;)

[JellyPooga]

Fall-from-Grace is just a regular cleric as far as I'm aware, it's just that she serves no god. That was the sterotype being broken. (Well that, and she's somehow a Lawful Neutral chaste succubus).
Off-topic, but I figured an answer was needed.
She never lets you see her diary, right?

She runs the Brothel of Slating Intellectual Lust to "hide in plain sight". Not every succubus need do the dirty to corrupt souls and how better to corrupt the wealthy, influential and well educated upper classes than to tell them "oh no, I gave all that up years ago; now I only slate your intellectual lust", acting all demure and chaste, while simultaneously giving them a good long look at "the ladies" popping out the top of that corset she wears? Smart and sexy? What could be more appealing? Even better; the rubes are lining up to pay for the privilege of damning themselves to the Abyss!

She's got half of Sigils nobility wrapped around her little finger and not just the male half. That's a whole heap of power for whichever deity she actually serves, because let's face it; AD&D Clerics must have a deity and that line about not having one is total bull. For a Chaotic Evil deity, how better to sneak some influence inside The Cage than to get a trusted and charismatic servant to set up shop there, disguised as a do-gooder? Remember that one girl who's daddy is a fiend? How do you think F-f-G talks to "the boss" and gets her orders? Blatant plant.

On the subject of the girls, she's recruited a whole heap of girls from all walks of life and persuaded them that her "brothel" is different to other brothels; she's given them the lap of luxury and all they have to do is talk to customers? Great! What happens when F-f-Grace pulls the other one? No longer do those girls have a powerful fiend and cleric on-side and nor do they have all her contacts and influence with the nobility. The brothel shuts down and the girls are out on their powdered behinds. What other trade do they know but working a brothel and what other brothel will let them "just talk" to the customers? No, these girls are being set up as tour guides for the shuttle-bus "downstairs" and they're not going with any empty seats, whether they realise it or not. Perfect material to recruit as fresh new Succubi.

And that's just the normal girls. There's the fiendling, the daughter of Ravel(!), Marissa the Medusa, the clockwork wonder, the girl without a voice (hmm, funny how only a FIEND tongue will cure her, huh?)...quite the menagerie she's got going there. Innocent kindness, taking in the outcast, feared and shunned? Or is it a power play, manipulating the desires of these girls to get them on-side? Some of whom have immense potential...

Which bring us to the Sensory Stones. Grace is looking for power. By getting her girls to record every conversation they have in a medium she can access at will, she can send all that info "downstairs" for sorting and filtering by the team of fiends her boss has working for solely that purpose. Extract just the right piece of information from their deepest and heartfelt confessions (Echo was particularly good for that, I hear) and BAM! That's another unsuspecting "customer" they've got leverage on.

Not only that, but the Stones record emotions and thoughts as well; if you're trying to break The Cage to sneak the boss (who is a God and thus denied access to Sigil) in through a backdoor, how about accessing the deepest thoughts and feelings of the daughter of the Night Hag that reportedly created it? It's some next-level Inception stuff going on there, but F-f-Grace has some pretty powerful contacts and is a baddass Succubus Cleric.

Then there's The Nameless One. He was causing problems. His lives were threatening the fabric of the multiverse and particularly, Sigil. Perhaps The Transcendent One was giving F-f-Graces boss some grief? Maybe her boss was just worried about how powerful he might become? Who knows? What we do know is that Grace latched on to TNO and helped get him out of the way. How convenient that he ended up in the middle of the Blood War instead of as a virtually powerless petitioner; powerful, unpredictable, the experience and warring personalities of four lifetimes AND transcendence...just the sort of being a Chaotic Evil deity might like knocking around a battlefield. Who knows, perhaps he could be recruited with a little persuasion from a familiar face?

No, F-f-Grace is not who she claims to be and even her Character Sheet lies to you. She's one of the Tan'arii; a being of pure Chaos and Evil; it's literally what she's made of and there's no getting away from that. As a Succubus, lies, seduction and corruption are her forte. Of course she's lying; only a smitten fool that has succumbed to her charms would believe otherwise.

[Potato_Priest]

A Fae based Bardic College. Not much more to say...


There's the UA college of glamour.

[Hrugner]

warlock: cabal or coven- Rather than deriving power from one powerful being, they are instead the avatar of a group of minor spell casters that have pooled their power and focused it on the leader of their order.

Paladin: defiant- rather than serving some higher ideal or greater power, they seek to prevent the influence of greater powers by seeking out their servants and destroying them. Their spells would all be arcane rather than divine.

Rogue: skirmisher- a shield using rogue adept at switching between weapons, rapidly drawing thrown weapons, improvising weapons from environment, and controlling the battlefield through maneuvers or making environmental effects worse.

Barbarian: meteor man- everyone wants to use dropped weapons from a great height to kill people, so there should be a class based around it. This fellow should be able to do massive vertical leaps, carry enormous amounts of weight, and either pile drive his opponents or hurl boulders down at them. This gives you a grappler who uses thrown boulders when grappling wouldn't make sense or would be ineffective.

sorcerer blood lines: noble- their family's reputation is sometimes as powerful as their magic.
alchemical-self experimentation leading to changeable bloodline effects from a variety of blood line choices.
beast-strange ancestry with beastial or primordial origins self enhancement focused
planeshifted- they're from somewhere else and simply don't have the same insides as other people.

[Spellbreaker26]

Off-topic, but I figured an answer was needed.


That sounds like a pretty solid theory. At least, I think it does. You see, I have not actually played Planescape Torment. I only know of it.

[JumboWheat01]

Rogue: skirmisher- a shield using rogue adept at switching between weapons, rapidly drawing thrown weapons, improvising weapons from environment, and controlling the battlefield through maneuvers or making environmental effects worse.

Oooh, me like. Makes me think of WoW's Combat Rogue (before its name-change to Outlaw,) that was built around not using stealth on a stealth class.

[JellyPooga]

That sounds like a pretty solid theory. At least, I think it does. You see, I have not actually played Planescape Torment. I only know of it.

You need to get on that; it's one of the most entertaining CRPGs out there IMO...still.

Sorry for the spoilers! :smallredface:

[Logosloki]

warlock: cabal or coven- Rather than deriving power from one powerful being, they are instead the avatar of a group of minor spell casters that have pooled their power and focused it on the leader of their order.

Paladin: defiant- rather than serving some higher ideal or greater power, they seek to prevent the influence of greater powers by seeking out their servants and destroying them. Their spells would all be arcane rather than divine.

Rogue: skirmisher- a shield using rogue adept at switching between weapons, rapidly drawing thrown weapons, improvising weapons from environment, and controlling the battlefield through maneuvers or making environmental effects worse.

Barbarian: meteor man- everyone wants to use dropped weapons from a great height to kill people, so there should be a class based around it. This fellow should be able to do massive vertical leaps, carry enormous amounts of weight, and either pile drive his opponents or hurl boulders down at them. This gives you a grappler who uses thrown boulders when grappling wouldn't make sense or would be ineffective.

sorcerer blood lines: noble- their family's reputation is sometimes as powerful as their magic.
alchemical-self experimentation leading to changeable bloodline effects from a variety of blood line choices.
beast-strange ancestry with beastial or primordial origins self enhancement focused
planeshifted- they're from somewhere else and simply don't have the same insides as other people.

I've run a oneshot where three magic initiate (warlock) received their feat from the warlock in the party. But coven is one that I didn't realise I wanted.

[baticeer]

As a matter of fact, I was trying to create one earlier, and came to the conclusion that a rogue grappler was the optimum choice. I think a Monk subclass focusing on Strength would be the best solution to this gap.

Hm, I would disagree. A hypothetical strength-based monk still uses ki, moves really fast, has wisdom as a major stat, and well... is a martial arts kung fu guy. It would be much more fitting to use fighter or barbarian as a basis for the "tough brawler" kind of character archetype.

[Sception]

I'm still waiting on a necromantic variant of anything other than wizard and paladin. Undeath domain cleric, maybe? Because the death domain doesn't do anything for a proper necromantic theme? Dirgesinger bard? Vampyric bloodline Sorcerer? Liche Patron warlock, with a pale-master inspired pact that has them trading their own living body parts for undead grafts (or abberant grafts if Great Old One Patron, etc)? Master-of-Shrouds monk? Shadow Dancer rogue? Bone Knight fighter? Circle of Death Druid - who sees death as a part of the natural order, and undead creatures as a supernatural manifestation of it, no more or less unnatural than elementals or fey? Psychic medium barbarian whose rage is a result of voluntary possession by ghosts? Blood-Hunter vampyric ranger, since the ranger's chassis of some melee, some stealth, and some magic makes a good fit for vampire-as-class? Did I leave anyone out?

Maybe an entirely new shadowcaster class - a half caster pet class with mechanics built around their own animated shadow?

How about some undead races? Dhamphyr/Vryloka? Maybe bring back Necropolitan as a race?

Perhaps some new Undead-oriented spells? Summon undead spells, maybe? A concentration buff to empower undead servants currently under your control? More kinds of undead to create? Animate Dead Animals perhaps? Or just a UA with officialish upcasting rules for Animate Dead to create the various non-human skeletons and zombies in the monster manual? Come on, it's been long enough since 5e's release. Let me have my skeletal warhorse!

Look, the Necromancer Wizard and Oathbroken paladin, they're both great, but there still a lot of room, here. A lot of room.

[JumboWheat01]

Liche Patron warlock, with a pale-master inspired pact that has them trading their own living body parts for undead grafts (or abberant grafts if Great Old One Patron, etc)?

SCAG does bring us the Pact of the Undying, which is close to that.

[Sception]

The Undying is a patron, not a pact, and while it has the right fluff, the mechanics are entirely wrong. No access to the animate dead spell, no ability to control undead, nothing related to working with them at all. Its only feature that interacts with undead helps when fighting against them, not with them. Like the DMG's Death domain cleric, the Undying patron really falls flat for someone looking to play a necromantic character.

* bleh, I meant to specify pact boon, I'm remembering now that just 'pact' is ambiguous, sorry *

[JBPuffin]

I'm going to be honest here - so long as they're exploring cool mechanics, WotC can describe them however they please. Feats, races, subclasses - anything and everything they want to make, I say go for it. Homebrew provides access to anything I want made, whether it's my own or someone else's. Seeing new mechanics is always cool - artificer being a one-third caster through normal class features is a new design space. Honestly, I'd back some of the older, weirder magic types to see new mechanics; Incarnum was fun to see, an aura-centric class ala 3.5's marshal/dragon shaman could be cool, Truenaming (Double proficiency to DCs, anyone?), Binding - get weird, WotC, so I can do the same with some guidelines! :P

[JoeJ]

Fire mages! More generally, I want to see wizardly arcane traditions that focus on one of the four elements.

[Finback]

Animancer, biomancer or vivimancer. The guy who thinks zombies and flesh golems are so last season.

Aaaand all I can think of now is the Pen/Apple/Pineapple song, only with, say, owls and bears.

[rlc]

Bear-bug-owl-bear?

[JumboWheat01]

bleh, I meant to specify pact boon

Ooh, now that is an idea, maybe as an "exclusive" for the Undying Warlock (kinda like how the starchain-thingy is an "exclusive" for the Seeker Warlock.)

[Millstone85]

Ooh, now that is an idea, maybe as an "exclusive" for the Undying Warlock (kinda like how the starchain-thingy is an "exclusive" for the Seeker Warlock.)I really don't like that they considered such a thing in UA.

[Morphic tide]

Ooh, now that is an idea, maybe as an "exclusive" for the Undying Warlock (kinda like how the starchain-thingy is an "exclusive" for the Seeker Warlock.)

Really, Warlock Pacts just need more exclusive Boons in general. Eldritch Blast effects are a rather large design space, after all, and it lets you have more options available to the class to specialize further into the focus of the subclass. Two exclusive(or exclusive pair, sharing them with other Pacts but having the two options together as an exclusive thing) Pack Boons per Patron would make the class a lot more varied and set a precedent for Patrons granting options instead of focuses.

I'm really serious about the Base class PRC thing, by the way. The multiclassing requirements can be anything. Skill proficiencies, being able to cast specific spells, having some number of cantrips and so on, but then you make the class function on it's own, using the multiclassing requirements as a way to enforce a particular playstyle. Of course, as the prerequisites go both ways, the class needs to be able to fulfill all of them. If the class requires a Fighting Style, then it has to provide that Fighting Style. If the class requires a specific number of cantrips known, it has to provide that many cantrips known. If the class requires casting of a particular sort, it has to provide that casting itself.

Also, framework for making class variants that replace base class abilities. Turn Undead gets in the way of Cleric Domains. Lay on Hands and the Auras get in the way of Paladin Oaths. One can work around these issues, but the issues stay in place.

[NecroDancer]

It would be cool to have a dirge bard.

[Arkhios]

Divine spellcasting versions for both Arcane Trickster and Eldritch Knight, and Drunken Master Monk.

Lucky(?) for you, I've covered two of those in my Signature.

[Oramac]

I don't necessarily want it, but I'm a little surprised we haven't seen a ranged Paladin oath yet.

[Coffee_Dragon]

It would be cool to have a dirge bard.

Shoegazer bards have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight.

[JellyPooga]

I'm really serious about the Base class PRC thing, by the way.

Whilst I'm pretty firmly entrenched in the "Archetypes do the job of PRC's better", I think there's definitely some wiggle room for Archetypes that are only available to certain multiclass combinations and riff off of the abilities of both classes.

For example; A Kensai Archetype (you know, better than that trash they gave us in the UA; opinions vary) for Fighter that requires two levels of Monk. You would have to have those 2 levels of Monk before taking your 3rd Fighter level (so you couldn't be a Champion Fighter that then becomes a Kensai afterwards) and as Archetype features, you might get Stunning Blow, Ki progression, scaling damage for your "Kensai Weapon" and so forth, i.e. you'd get to progress your Monk abilities by advancing Fighter levels.

Or as a bit of a spin on the idea, an Arcane Archer; a Ranger archetype that requires the ability to cast True Strike, rather than a specific multiclass combination.

I wouldn't particularly have a problem with gaining access from the Magic Initiate Feat on this one; Rangers don't get Cantrips anyway, so spending a Feat to grab a Cantrip just to get into the Prestige Archetype seems ok to me. Besides, only Variant Humans or characters that have advanced to at least level 4 in another Class will be able to get the Feat before choosing their Archetype for Ranger; I see no problem here. High Elves being able to gain "free" access via their Racial Cantrip also seems thematically appropriate.

The Archetype might grant extra (arcane) spells known, like Elemental Weapon, other "classic" abilities like Imbue Arrow or treating mundane arrows as magical, but could also expand the utility of the otherwise much maligned True Strike; perhaps expanding it's usage to multiple attacks, or reducing it's casting time to a Bonus Action.

Most of these would obviously be "dip focused"; all Classes choose their Archetype within the first 3 levels and in designing these things I think you'd have to be careful not to allow "chain PrArchetype multiclassing" (e.g. Kensai abilities allowing you to enter, say, a Rogue archetype designed for a Rogue/Ranger multiclass somehow). Reciprocal PrArchetype multiclassing should definitely be a thing though; i.e. in addition to Kensai (as described above), also having a Monastic Tradition PrArchetpye for Monk/Fighter, opening up or encouraging more "even split" multiclassing than just the more common dip.

[Snowsong]

I would be really interested in a healing-focused paladin.

[rlc]

People need to quit promoting their homebrew in this thread.

[Morphic tide]

*snip*

Good idea with the multiclassing focused archetypes! Problem is that most of the casters choose their archetype at level 1, so prerequisites don't work properly with it.

Also, you seem to somewhat misunderstand the point of the base-PRCs. They have multiclassing requirements like a PRC, but are a fully functional class with their own archetypes available to them.

For example, the Kensai setup would have the multiclassing requirements of, say, Action Surge and having a Ki pool. It would grant both, in some way, at a level where you still have room for multiclassing.

A better example is an Arcane Archer/Duskblade setup that requires 13 Dex, 13 Int, a Fighting Style and arcane casting, granting access to all of them.

The point is, essentially, to make their multiclassing requirements enforce a specific combination of classes intended for specific builds if you want to multiclass into them, but they work perfectly well as a one to twenty base class, having their own archetypes and everything, actually being more flexible as what you start with than as something you work into.

Mixing the two ideas would further lock the character's playstyle to one coherent, and well balanced, subset of what exists. To turn to the Arcane Archer/Duskblade setup, you could lock the archetypes to specific Fighting Styles and specific spells, with the archetype coming in at level 3 or 4. Then, place the class's own Fighting Styles at the level before the archetype choice while allowing them to get ahold of the spells needed by the archetype level.