Help with an ogre character

[ngilop]

He guys


I am going ot submit a character for a game and I can finally re-use an ogre character I created over a decade ago for 2nd ed.

Character Creation Rules

-8th level Gestalt (28,000 xp).

-36 Point Buy.

-Roll for all HP.

-27,000 gp.

-LA can be used on one side of the Gestalt Track.

-Most 3.5 material allowed, but if it is very obscure, we will have to discuss it.

-Prestige classes can be on both sides of the track.

-Greyhawk Pantheon.

-No Tome of Battle material allowed.

-No Psionics.

-No guns/steampunk material.

-No third party material.


The ogre I had for 2nd ed was a stright fighter with a two handed ( for an ogre) sword. He was a big tough but not very bright guy.

The backstory is as follows ( well summed up i do not have the character sheet at the moment so I m going off of memory) He was a local enforcer thug for a gang that specialized in protection. One day while doing his business and smaching things to get money for the gang, the leader of the expedtition signaled it was time to go. as they made their way out of the small hamlet, a little girl yelled stop the ogre turned around to find a human child no more than 4 or 5 years old thrusting a stuffed toy up towards his, "you forgot this mister.. take fluff fluff and don't hurt my family" AT that moment the ogre's heat grew three times it size and something about how this tiny little thing braved just to give up its most prized possession gave light on the fact that the ogre was doing wrong and right then and there he changed his ways.

I am not sure how best to convert this guy to the thrid edition rule set. Mstly i am in need of feat prgoression. SInce the guy was a thug enforcer I know that an intimidate focus would be good.

I know the levels are going to look like this
1 Ogre 1<> ?1
2 Ogre 2<> ?2
3 Ogre 3<> ?3
4 Ogre 4<> ?4
5 Ogre 5<> ?5
6 Ogre 6<> ?6
7 ?1<> ?7
8 ?2<> ?8

Right now I am thinking of filling the ogre side up with war hulk and going fighter at least 6 levels on the open side to get the feats needed.

other than that I am at a loss for what I would need to do.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Zhentrim Dungeoncrasher Fighter makes for a pretty decent base, yeah-- good for both being intimidate-y and knocking people around. You could, potentially, slap that on one side, two levels of (Spirit Lion Totem) Barbarian on the Ogre side, take Intimidating Rage and be good. But this being gestalt, I feel like you might want something... more, to be able to cover more bases than just "big and strong." Rogue, perhaps? (Mystic?) Ranger? Do you have a secondary role in mind?

[Troacctid]

Ogres are not suitable for PCs in this edition. You'd want to audible to Half-Ogre instead, which is much more workable.

[Inevitability]

Ogres are not suitable for PCs in this edition. You'd want to audible to Half-Ogre instead, which is much more workable.

Going to second this. In fact, a Half-Ogre will probably deal more damage than a standard ogre, simply because it can spend four levels on increasing DPR.

[ngilop]

I do not have a role in mind expect big scary and powerful Ogre warrior.

This character was a single classes fighter in 2nd ed. SO while gestalt allows me to be an ogre PC without suffering from stupid high ECL.

I guess i could slap 2 levels of feat rogue on top of my ogre to get some skill points and evasion, then have 8 levels of fighter ( need 9 to get my super cool intimidate as a swift)

[lylsyly]

Zhentrim Dungeoncrasher Fighter makes for a pretty decent base, yeah-- good for both being intimidate-y and knocking people around. You could, potentially, slap that on one side, two levels of (Spirit Lion Totem) Barbarian on the Ogre side, take Intimidating Rage and be good. But this being gestalt, I feel like you might want something... more, to be able to cover more bases than just "big and strong." Rogue, perhaps? (Mystic?) Ranger? Do you have a secondary role in mind?

Zhentarim Dungeoncrasher Fighter build on one side with the mystic ranger on the other sounds like a really good multirole character


Ogres are not suitable for PCs in this edition. You'd want to audible to Half-Ogre instead, which is much more workable.

Half Ogre from Races of Destiny would net you +6 STR and +2 CON with an LA of +2 which you could buyoff on one side of the Gestalt leaving you with more levels to play with.

[ngilop]

I will never understadn why the majority of GITPers are such jerks.


I very specifically and most assuredly stated in black text over a white background that I wanted to recreate a 2nd ed ogre character of mine, besides Grod who is one of the litteraly dozen and a half decent people on this whole site.


everybody else has came in and insuated how dumb I am for not just going half ogre and blah blah blah other crap that has absolutely NO reason to ever be mentioned in this thread


I see this all the dang time, a few months ago i came looking for some feast foir a higher level druid and gave the parameters t druid /X prc/Y prc and was told several times i am doing it wrong and all of the 'advice' i got was how i was stupid for doing it Y way and when I stated these are what I want please stay within them i again was insulted


I DO NOT GIVE A FLYING FLUCK if I am not as optimal as a half ogre or any thing else you can come up with.

I VERY freaking clealry stated that this is an OGRE, not a half ogre, not a orc, nor a dwarf or anything with a tempale but a simple freagging Ogre.

SO please stop trying to make my character into something that I most definately do NOT want.


If you could just stay out and shut up if you are just going to continue to tell me how i am stupid and not suitiab;e for play since I am an ogre I would greatly appreciate it. If you actually want to be hepful, well then by all means be an actual good person and be helpful.

thanks for the help Grod, you are one of the few on this site that I can count on and whom I actually take into consideration.

[Zanos]

Relax. Nobody insulted you for saying you wanted to play an Ogre, they just suggested a more practical alternative. Calling all playgrounders jerks for suggesting a viable alternative is ridiculous.

That said, Ogre(and most monstrous races, actually) are much better if you can put all the HD/LA on one side of the gestalt. Tome of battle ban hurts but a variant on the horizon tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?80415-The-Horizon-Tripper-(Core-Melee-Build)) would be pretty good, leveraging your massive strength core and size bonus to pretty much always hit trip attempts, and rage without penalty with desert terrain mastery.

[lylsyly]

ya know what ngilop ... no one here did ANYTHING to get that kind of response from you.

Go to RPG.net, they behave like that all the time, or better yet go to enworld.org or minmaxboards.com where if you can't super optimize your OWN character, then, well they talk down to you at every turn.

Maybe you should check them out, then we'll see if you come back here where NO-ONE automatically sneers at you.

I'm Out. So out that I may not even post in my own threads for a bit.

[Deophaun]

I very specifically and most assuredly stated in black text over a white background that I wanted to recreate a 2nd ed ogre character of mine, besides Grod who is one of the litteraly dozen and a half decent people on this whole site.
I'm unsure how using half-ogre as a base prevents you from playing an ogre. They're both large, they both have 10' reach, and they're both giants. The only significant difference is that one has RHD and the other doesn't, which is only an issue if you want to take something like the feral template that builds off racial HD.

So, if you aren't doing that, you use the half-ogre and you say your character is an ogre and--through the magic of roleplaying--your character is an ogre. The character is not the sheet.

[John Longarrow]

Level
Class 1
Class 2


1
RHD-1
Barbarian-1


2
RHD-2
Barbarian-2


3
RHD-3
Barbarian - 3


4
RHD-4
Barbarin-4


5
ECL-1
Barbarian-5


6
ECL-2
Barbarian-6


7
Fighter-1
Barbarian-7


8
Fighter-2
Barbarian-8


This gives you a pretty solid fast and hittie build with a couple bonus feats at 7th and 8th level. I've found both fear effects and trip/intimidate/what ever builds somewhat problematic, so I figure go with your characters strength which is strength. High HP, hits like a freight train, and fast enough to avoid a lot of issues. Rage used when you either really need to pound something NOW or when you really need to pop smoke.

For many posters here, they don't always pay attention to what the original poster posts. You'll see a LOT of people recommending things which you've specifically said you can't use. Its not them trying to be a butt head, its just lack of attention to detail.

[Troacctid]

For many posters here, they don't always pay attention to what the original poster posts. You'll see a LOT of people recommending things which you've specifically said you can't use. Its not them trying to be a butt head, its just lack of attention to detail.
I didn't see anything in the OP saying Half-Ogre is off the table. And it is the only PC race that is an Ogre, so realistically it's pretty much the only option anyway.

[PacMan2247]

I'm inclined to agree with John Longarrow on this one; leveraging your strength and reach will be a good way to go. Ogres aren't known for Intelligence (as evidenced by Toughness as the standard feat in the Monster Manual), but the gang for which he was an enforcer would probably have seen to some tactical and weapons training for an asset like this- EWP (spiked chain) seems within reason to me for the character you've described, and if you have a caster working at battlefield control the two of you would probably be able to work well together tactically. If a spiked chain isn't to your liking, any other reach weapon would still be good, and you'd probably be better off with Quick Draw and a secondary weapon for close-in work, but Short Haft would allow you to only worry about improving one weapon if you prefer that. Using two separate weapons (either because you have a backup or because you've decided to go TWF) would allow you to less expensively pick different enchantments, so you'd have some choice about how best to fight something that way, too.

War Hulk is one of those classes that I've always liked; some people would say that it's suboptimal, but I like both the flavor of it and the options it opens when you've chosen to play a brute. The Massive Swing capstone at level 10 is better than Whirlwind Attack in every way, and something with the kind of reach you could have stands a good chance of getting decent mileage from that. If your DM isn't the type to run battles with lots of adversaries, you might not have enough use for the War Hulk's class abilities to enjoy investing in the class, though.

Grod's suggestion on the Lion Totem Barbarian (Complete Champion, not Unearthed Arcana) is also solid; pouncing is incredibly valuable for getting into melee and laying down some hurt. If you're not going to do that, you'll probably want to invest in items to help you move around quickly- an Anklet of Translocation is 1400gp, but will only move you 10 feet on a swift action; most other movement items are going to look for a move action to activate, so you'll still lose that full attack. Pouncing is probably the better option. If Fighter levels are important to you, you could adapt John Longarrow's suggested build by switching the fighter and barbarian classes.

As far as Intimidate goes, I know some DMs out there are willing to link it to Strength rather than Charisma; a carefully nuanced threat is certainly intimidating, but so is 600 or so pounds of ill-tempered muscle. It's worth asking for, at least.

I like your bit about the turning point when the child offers the toy. The moment of realization there sounds to me like at least a minor bump in Wisdom from the norm for an ogre (which is still a respectable 10). I hope you get the chance to role play some situations where you're fighting people's prejudices against ogres, and your own inclinations to be intimidating- Sweetums was always my favorite Muppet.

[Marlowe]

I wondered how long it would take the OP to start insulting everyone for trying to help him. This is all he ever does.

[John Longarrow]

I didn't see anything in the OP saying Half-Ogre is off the table. And it is the only PC race that is an Ogre, so realistically it's pretty much the only option anyway.

I'm going by his request for "Help with an ogre character". He didn't ask for help with a half-ogre. I don't think he'd need to specify he's not looking for help with a half ogre any more than specifying he's not looking for help with an Elvish mage.

I'm not sure why you think the only PC race that is an ogre is a half ogre. What races a PC can be are campaign specific. Nothing in his post says the campaign he's in won't allow him to be an ogre, rather to the contrary.

[PacMan2247]

I'm going by his request for "Help with an ogre character". He didn't ask for help with a half-ogre. I don't think he'd need to specify he's not looking for help with a half ogre any more than specifying he's not looking for help with an Elvish mage.

I'm not sure why you think the only PC race that is an ogre is a half ogre. What races a PC can be are campaign specific. Nothing in his post says the campaign he's in won't allow him to be an ogre, rather to the contrary.

This covers it pretty well. "Do something different" isn't actually a response to "Help me do this thing". The OP asked for suggestions on building an ogre character, and gave some background and a vital point of history in the character's life to provide a foundation on which people could build, and about half the responses to this point have been either suggestions to make a different foundation, or getting self-righteous about the OP being angry about those responses. The outburst itself may not be my style, but I understand where it came from.

And yes, people on other boards may be deeply unpleasant and aggressively unhelpful, but setting the bar at "better than complete jerks" leaves an awful lot of room to be a jerk. Comparing yourself and your community to people you don't respect is a disservice to everyone.

[Anthrowhale]

Particularly, if you go for a spiked chain control style, moving into Exotic Weapon Master seems like a reasonable choice after the more obvious things are taken.

[ngilop]

why thank you ever so much PacMan2247 and John Longarrow

that seems to be the gist of things on this site for the overhwelming majorityof the population. and Troacctid saying
I didn't see anything in the OP saying Half-Ogre is off the table. And it is the only PC race that is an Ogre, so realistically it's pretty much the only option anyway. is how the usual thought process goes. and like was said what she/he did was akin to just telling me to be an elven mage and other nonsense. They just assume the the OP is a completely and utterly moronic numbskull and has no idea what they are trying to do and so come up with even better and totally smarter ideas than the OP ever could.. even though they are being extremely discourteous and purposley ignoring the requests of the OP.


even when what they are responding to has been very carefully and explicitly explained.


In regard to marlowe, there is noting wrong for me calling peeps out, you just happen to join in the last couple of thread where i asked for advice and basicall the GITP MO happens it goes like this
step 1 OP askes for advice and puts up very specific parameters
step 2 GITPer completely ignores said parameters in response
step 3 GITPer then treats the OP like they are a complete idiot and whatever they are doing is dumb/wrong/bad
step 4 OP says , hey guys like actually pay attention to what i am aksing
step 5 GITPer continues to ignore and offers the same advice
step 6 GITPer then gets called out by OP
step 7 GITPer then get all indignant and claim they 'were just trying to help'
step 8 others then join in on the jump on the Op for not following 'good advice' of course ignoring that said advice is 100% NOT what the OP asked for
step 9 OP just walks away
step 10 OP then gets death threats in him PM

SO yeah you have people part of a forum tell you that you should be killed, sterilzed, and a bunch of other such not so nice things and then somehow come to teh conclusion that here at GITP everybody si all lovey dovey and not automatically 'sneering'


this is how I am envisioning the character now Zhentarim fighter and Feat rogue respectively, i thougth there was a feat that used your STR instead of Cha for all intimidate related thing but I cannot find it.
1 Ogre 1<> Fighter1 Power Attack
2 Ogre 2<> Fighter2 Improved Bullrush
3 Ogre 3<> Fighter3
4 Ogre 4<> Fighter4Awesome Blow
5 Ogre 5<> Fighter5
6 Ogre 6<> Fighter6 Imperious Command
7 Rogue1<> Fighter7 Never Outnumbered
8 Rogue2<> Fighter8

[Grod_The_Giant]

So, I'm sorry but I have to say it: using a base of, say, Half-Ogre Goliath or Half-Ogre Orc and calling yourself an ogre would be a mechanically superior-- and more importantly, I think more fun-- way to play the character. You would achieve your goal of being a Large-sized giant with darkvision, natural armor and enormous strength with much less investment, leaving more room for class levels that grant fun abilities. "Race as a metagame construct" is admittedly a bit more of a sticking point than class, but it's not, I don't think, an unreasonable one.

BUT, you've said you're not interested. Which means sticking with the Ogre, which means a "class" that, over six levels, gives us medium BAB (generally), +10 Str, +4 Con, +5 NA and Large size. That's not terrible, honestly. A solid melee bruiser base. You just want to be big and scary... I think I'd take one level of Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian, as mentioned, because it's too good to pass up, and then progress that side with Dungeoncrasher Thug Zhentrim Fighter-- more skill points and a better smashy attack than the vanilla fighter. Admittedly you'd just get the one bonus feat at Fighter 4/ECL 5, but you're not looking at any really feat-intensive builds and I think the tradeoff is worth it.

On the other side... don't go Feat Rogue when you're done with Ogre. Go War Hulk. A Gestalt character avoids the BAB drawback, and it wasn't like you were attempting non-physical skills anyway... and you can pick up even more Strength. Assuming you started with a 16 for Strength, at ECL 8 you could have a 32. Giving you a +19 on Bull Rush attempts. Giving you a +21 on checks to break things-- that's enough to break iron barriers by sneezing and reliably punch through a foot of solid stone. Giving you a heavy load of more than four tons, with the potential to drag objects weighing up to twenty tons. You're not playing a barbarian warrior, you're playing a freakin' superhero.

For a feat progression, try something like Power Attack (1st), Improved Bull Rush (3rd), Cleave (5th, F4 Bonus)*, Imperious Command (6th), Knockback* (7th, F6 bonus). At 9th, maybe grab Intimidating Rage or Extra Rage with your normal feat and Shock Trooper with your fighter bonus.


*Races of Stone; make a free Bull Rush attempt (with bonuses!) after power attacking). It's like Awesome Blow, but you get all the Dungeoncrasher stuff with it.