Making a SWAT team on D&D 3.5

[flappeercraft]

So how would one make a SWAT team in D&D 3.5? For the purpose of this lets assume its for stating out people from Earth so no Magic/magic users, of course humans and using firearms from DMG 146 Modern era weapons. As for level I would say level 3-8 probably and no extra HP from leveling but of course from contitution just to make it similar to real life. What feats and class levels should they take, what weapons, etc. All sources allowed. Point buy of 32. No infinite loops please.

Edit: If you want to stat out different specialized people in a team and how much of each specialization then lets say a team of 20 people
Edit 2: I just noticed there is d20 Modern, I guess that works also for the purpose of this as for items and weapons

[Vaz]

You're looking at the wrong game system tbh.

3.5 is magic, the edition. No fantasy races. Is this on either side? Not futuristic? Low levels on the assumption tha they are only humans, they are 6th level.

Otherwise, everything is a Rogue 6 with Crossbow Expert to sit at 60ft range, hiding and getting Sneak Attacks on a Heavy Mwork XBow for like 1d10+4d6 Sneak Attack damage.

On a minimum roll, that is doing 5 damage. The average human is a human commoner with 2.5 hp (Con 10-11, no auto max), and average 19.5 damage, and that is each. Under the assumption Swat are special forces and consequently second only to those elite T1, they outclass anything they face.

Assuming a pair of Snipers, each in a 2 man spotter/shooter pairing, that is basically 40pts of damage down range each and every turn.

I don't have the stats for a Scoped .308 chambering rifle fired from 120ft away. I'm assuming it's nastier, but Xbow Sniper and Heavy Xbow was used to replicate that.

[ExLibrisMortis]

You're looking at the wrong game system tbh.
Not at all.



If I understand correctly, SWAT teams are mostly about dealing with violent, armed, and non-professionally-equipped/trained people, who in D&D are probably more experts than warriors, and low-levelled ones at that. As such, I'd first look into a crusader level or two, which will give you a degree of protection that practically no ordinary thug or gang member can deal with, and then maybe a few levels in bard, for the much-needed negotiating skills, and Obtain Familiar to scout ahead (though binding Malphas can be great, too). I think a bardsader SWAT team is pretty impressive. Isn't there bardic music for shock-and-awe tactics?

[Vaz]

Not at all.



If I understand correctly, SWAT teams are mostly about dealing with violent, armed, and non-professionally-equipped/trained people, who in D&D are probably more experts than warriors, and low-levelled ones at that. As such, I'd first look into a crusader level or two, which will give you a degree of protection that practically no ordinary thug or gang member can deal with, and then maybe a few levels in bard, for the much-needed negotiating skills, and Obtain Familiar to scout ahead (though binding Malphas can be great, too). I think a bardsader SWAT team is pretty impressive. Isn't there bardic music for shock-and-awe tactics?
No, and Bard is Su so that is out of the question. As is Binding. As are familiars. Reading the thread, 3.5 is entirely the wrong game system and is better represented by a game which has a better representation of Firearms and low level playing rather than the rocket tag of 3.5e.

[lylsyly]

I do have a Question. How do you figure a 20 person SWAT Team?

And D&D 3.x is definitely the wrong system. Have you looked at D20 Modern? http://systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/modern/smack/srdhome.html

[flappeercraft]

You're looking at the wrong game system tbh.

3.5 is magic, the edition. No fantasy races. Is this on either side? Not futuristic? Low levels on the assumption tha they are only humans, they are 6th level.

Otherwise, everything is a Rogue 6 with Crossbow Expert to sit at 60ft range, hiding and getting Sneak Attacks on a Heavy Mwork XBow for like 1d10+4d6 Sneak Attack damage.

On a minimum roll, that is doing 5 damage. The average human is a human commoner with 2.5 hp (Con 10-11, no auto max), and average 19.5 damage, and that is each. Under the assumption Swat are special forces and consequently second only to those elite T1, they outclass anything they face.

Assuming a pair of Snipers, each in a 2 man spotter/shooter pairing, that is basically 40pts of damage down range each and every turn.

I don't have the stats for a Scoped .308 chambering rifle fired from 120ft away. I'm assuming it's nastier, but Xbow Sniper and Heavy Xbow was used to replicate that.

The reason behind the no magic and 3.5 and not full d20 modern is because I want to implement these guys in a campaign that I'm currently running which is on 3.5 which does have magic, actually a lot of it but these guys are supposed to come from earth to Greyhawk through unknown means including to them and will team up with the PC's against the BBEG in exchange for help to go back to their proper plane.

Exlibrismortis as for your idea of using a familiar to scout ahead I unfortunately cannot use ut due to magic but a small drone could work well enough as a replacement.

[Vaz]

6th to 8th level with an AC of 15, and 6HP, you might as well not bother. Cool story but they cannt help at all. The party will spend resources on saving these useless mooks that a BBEG (built for a party of 4+6th to 8ths and a half dozen SWAT boys) will an happily go Lu Bu on chew through them like German Halftracks in Polish fields.

[flappeercraft]

6th to 8th level with an AC of 15, and 6HP, yiu might as well not bother.

Yeah, they won't have magic themselves but they will if working according to plan team up with the PC's which can easily provide some magical assistance as they have a sorcerer, a wizard/incantatrix and a cleric for magic users and soon a new player will be joining who might use a magic user.

[Zanos]

I would take a look at teamwork benefits in PHB/DMG II. Joint Ram, Door Procedures, Invisibility Sweep, Indirect Fire, and Missile Volley all help a lot. Missile volley notably lets you add up to a +8 to everyone using it's attacks. I personally use it to create groups of awakened human skeleton archers that have +9 to hit each instead of +1.

[Vaz]

Can the cleric cast revivify or raise dead yet? Because they might as well just start saving up for those.

This is literally a 'sit down son, let the big boys do the work'.

Putting up an example CR10 encounter, say a Bebilith, which has an AC of 22, vs a to hit of maybe +7 (Dex 14, Mwork weapon), 150HP woth DR10, 40ft speed with 10ft reach, DC24 1d6 Con/2d6 Con with Plane Shift at will.

Or a Formian Myrmarch; Greater Teleport at will, AC28, 102HP with Fast Healing 2.

These are nice end game fights for a 10th level party. Rather challenging. If the party is expected to keep those guys alive they are going to be wise about it, and keep them at home until they can purchase a couple of scrolls of Plane Shift/theynhave secured McGuffin to send home.

[frogglesmash]

The reason behind the no magic and 3.5 and not full d20 modern is because I want to implement these guys in a campaign that I'm currently running which is on 3.5 which does have magic, actually a lot of it but these guys are supposed to come from earth to Greyhawk through unknown means including to them and will team up with the PC's against the BBEG in exchange for help to go back to their proper plane.

Exlibrismortis as for your idea of using a familiar to scout ahead I unfortunately cannot use ut due to magic but a small drone could work well enough as a replacement.

I don't see why you can't still use d20 modern for the swat team, it would require very little effort to make compatible seeing as 3.5 and d20 modern are almost identical (you'd just have to change the save and BaB progressions to the ones used in d&d and maybe remove the class bonus to AC).

[SilverLeaf167]

I think D&D is perfectly suited for a SWAT team, given how many fights tend to consist of the team rushing into a room, killing everything within 10 seconds, sweeping the area and then moving into the next. :smallamused:

[Deaxsa]

How about ranger 6 with FE: human and FT: urban? Then have a feat focus on ranged combat and teamwork, and skill focus on mobility, breaking and entering, stealth, that sort of thing. Additionally, pf is much better for this setup.

[flappeercraft]

So I'm thinking that possibly a Swift hunter build with Urban ranger could be a possible thing here. What about that?

[Eladrinblade]

If we're going by the "real life is E6" that the vocal folks around consider dogma, then I doubt a swat team would be higher than 3rd level, tops. 3rd level is probably more "veteran" than normal, so I'd say 2nd, maybe with elite stats.

I don't see any reason to think they'd be anything other than fighters. Their whole thing is "barge in and whoop ass, while wearing the best armor available". That's a fighter. They do rely on surprise, rather than specializing in combat, so I'd say they use the thug variant.

Fighter 2
Sneak Attack +1d6
Str 13, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 12
Intimidate +6, other skill
Heavy Crossbow Focus, Crossbow Sniper
Breastplate, MW Heavy Crossbow, Flashbangs (Flash Pellet + Thunderstone), MW Manacles with lock

Other feats to take would be heavy repeating crossbow proficiency (should be taken before weapon focus, if you go that route) and improved initiative