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Jonrea
2007-07-19, 05:20 PM
So I'm making a Beguiler for an upcoming pirate/naval campaign (starting level 5).

Currently in the group:
Druid (elemental focused, I think)
Raptoran Fighter
Master Specialist Conjurer
Rogue

I was planning for the Beguiler to be the social face of the party and focus heavily on enchantments.

Pretty much all books are fair game, and here's what I have planned:
Grey Elf

Int > Con > Cha > Wis > Dex > Str

Feats:
1. Spell Focus (Ench),
3. Gr. Spell Focus (Ench)
6. Arcane Thesis?

Adv. Learning:
3. Distract Assailent
7. Ray of Dizziness/Tasha's Hideous Laughter

Skills: (Are skill points recursive? I.E. my intelligence mod goes up, I get extra skill points for past levels?)
Diplomacy, Bluff, Concentrate, Gather Information, Sense Motive, Disguise, Knowledge (local), Knowledge (arcana), Move Silently
Search? Disable Device? Swim? Use Magic Device?

Armament:
Shortbow+100 arrows
Shortsword
Mithral Chainshirt

Items:
Bag of Holding I
Headband of intellect +2
Cloak of Resistance +1
Backpack
Bedroll
Beltpouch
Mst. Thieves Tools
Disguise Kit
Signet Ring
Courtiers, Travelers, and Scholars outfits

Any suggestions?

giblina
2007-07-19, 05:37 PM
You do not gain or lose previously purchased skill points based on changes to intelligence. It only affects your skill gains from that point forward (and I think it's based off your natural intellect, not enhancements to it).

giblina
2007-07-19, 05:40 PM
Also, which stat is beguiler's DC set off of? I don't have PHB2, but I thought it was charisma (but could be wrong).

Because if it is charisma, you might want to make that your highest score.

lukelightning
2007-07-19, 05:52 PM
Also, which stat is beguiler's DC set off of? I don't have PHB2, but I thought it was charisma (but could be wrong).

Beguilers use intelligence. Which means they normally have tons of skill points.

Kurald Galain
2007-07-19, 06:02 PM
Also, which stat is beguiler's DC set off of?

Intelligence.

That said, I'd go with Int > Con > Dex & Wis > Str & Cha, with a preference to dex on a ship-based campaign. Charisma isn't all that useful to a beguiler. Yes, you have the Cha skill tree, but you also have spells that do it better.

With a low strength, how do you expect to carry 100 arrows? Besides, you're not an archer. If you're not spellcasting in combat, you're doing something wrong. Some people argue you don't need Concentration skill for the same reason (your concealed casting trick isn't all that useful, in fact)

Swim is a must in a naval campaign.
On a ship, Balance may be surprisingly useful. Add a rank or two in Profession: Sailor for good measure.
UMD is good but only if you can get it to rank 10 or thereabouts. So take it at a later level.
You may want one rank in spellcraft just so you can make checks on it.
Disguise isn't needed because you have a spell for that (likewise, Open Locks).
Take hiding skill. Even with invis it's still useful, the two stack.
Disable Device may be useful if you're creative. I wouldn't expect traps on a ship but there's other stuff to disable.
Search, Sense Motive and Gather Info are less useful if other people in the party already have them. Besides, you've got divination spells, plus charm person.
Take five ranks in Tumble. You'll be glad you did.
I love Sleight of Hand but that may be personal.

Arcane thesis is cheesy and likely to be disallowed by most DMs I know. It is also a somewhat one-sided feat. A nice alternative is Unsettling Enchantment (-2 to hit / ac with no save on everybody you enchant), or Imp Initiative, or (yes I do keep bringing this up but it stays relevant for some reason) Arcane Disciple, for more spells known.

Talya
2007-07-19, 06:03 PM
As far as Gish go, beguiler meshes well with 3 levels of swashbuckler, if you want a tiny modicum of piraty-swordfighting. But...you lose those precious caster levels. Might be fine in a pirate campaign, mind you.

DiscipleofBob
2007-07-19, 06:15 PM
I've played a Beguiler before. It was fun in some cases.

The biggest thing to remember is that the majority of your spell list is absolutely worthless against anything with a decent Will save. Against anything like that, the most you can do is cast Haste on the party. Make sure to get a few wands of stuff like Magic Missile, Scorching Ray, and Cure Mod. so you're not helpless against stuff that can make the Will saves.

As for your stats, I'd value Dex and Cha over Con. Sure, Con means more hit points, but Dex means a better AC and you're going to want both for your various skills (Bluff, Disguise, Diplomacy, Hide, Move Silently, etc.).

Feats: Not sure what Arcane Thesis is, but the other two are important and good choices. Improved Initiative is another one you might want to consider taking.

Your skills are mostly all good choices. Search is never a bad option, but a rank or two in Spot and Listen might be better. One rank in Swim just in case you need to (or just buy appropriate magic items). You might need Spellcraft, but I'd leave Disable Device to the rogue.

Leon
2007-07-19, 11:46 PM
Some helpful Advice maybe found in here - http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=805782

The Handbook on Beguilers

Overlard
2007-07-20, 04:17 AM
Intelligence.

That said, I'd go with Int > Con > Dex & Wis > Str & Cha, with a preference to dex on a ship-based campaign. Charisma isn't all that useful to a beguiler. Yes, you have the Cha skill tree, but you also have spells that do it better.

With a low strength, how do you expect to carry 100 arrows? Besides, you're not an archer. If you're not spellcasting in combat, you're doing something wrong. Some people argue you don't need Concentration skill for the same reason (your concealed casting trick isn't all that useful, in fact)

Swim is a must in a naval campaign.
On a ship, Balance may be surprisingly useful. Add a rank or two in Profession: Sailor for good measure.
UMD is good but only if you can get it to rank 10 or thereabouts. So take it at a later level.
You may want one rank in spellcraft just so you can make checks on it.
Disguise isn't needed because you have a spell for that (likewise, Open Locks).
Take hiding skill. Even with invis it's still useful, the two stack.
Disable Device may be useful if you're creative. I wouldn't expect traps on a ship but there's other stuff to disable.
Search, Sense Motive and Gather Info are less useful if other people in the party already have them. Besides, you've got divination spells, plus charm person.
Take five ranks in Tumble. You'll be glad you did.
I love Sleight of Hand but that may be personal.

Arcane thesis is cheesy and likely to be disallowed by most DMs I know. It is also a somewhat one-sided feat. A nice alternative is Unsettling Enchantment (-2 to hit / ac with no save on everybody you enchant), or Imp Initiative, or (yes I do keep bringing this up but it stays relevant for some reason) Arcane Disciple, for more spells known.
Concentration may not be strictly necessary for defensive casting, but if you're on a ship and the weather's not great, you're going to be making a lot of concentration checks.

It might be worth taking some ranks in jump (and definitely in tumble), maybe use rope and climb too as you'll be on a ship. Climb is less useful as you'll have spider climb, but it'll save you a second level spell each time.

The knowledge skills are less useful in this case. I'm guessing the master conjurer will have arcana, and maybe the rogue will have local (a far from essential skill). If they were geography and nature, then I'd say keep 'em, but they're cross-class for you.