The Naked Paladin

[Dire Roc]

Here is a build I've been fooling around with for a somewhat unconventional paladin.

The rules allow a non-cleric to benefit from worshiping multiple deities, but seeing as this build uses multiple deity specific archetypes and feats it would be within a DM's rights to limit it to fewer. In that case one could ask about substituting the d20pfsrd versions of everything but Celestial Obedience.

Human Unchained Monk (Scaled Fist) 1/ Paladin(Iroran Paladin) 13/ Devoted Muse 6
STR: 19 (13 +6 Enhancement)
DEX: 16 (10 +6 Enhancement)
CON: 18 (12 +6 Enhancement)
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 36 (18+2 Racial +5 Level + 6 Enhancement +5 Inherent)

Feats:
1:Power Attack
Human: Noble Scion(War)
Monk: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Dragon Style
3: Celestial Obedience (Arshea)
5:Dragon Ferocity
7:Dodge
9: Dirty Fighting
11: Improved Feint
13: Weapon Finesse
15: Osyluth Guile
17:
DevMuse:
19:
DevMuse:


Traits: Charming, Magical Knack (Paladin)

As a rougher build the ability scores aren't terribly optimized, but even with just this the AC should be quite high with charisma being legally added to it three times (untyped, dex, and dodge) , and having the option to add it two more times through Osyluth Guile and Dodging Panache.

AC = 59 (89) (10 base + 16 (Dex+Cha) +13 Monk + 13 Armor +1 Dodge +6 Devoted Muse)(+13 Osyluth Guile +13 Dodging Panache +4 Personal Trial)
Touch AC: 46
Flat Footed: 36
Initiative: +18

Saves
Fort: +34 (+2 Monk +8 Paladin +2 DevMuse +4 Con + 13 Charisma +5 Cloak of Resistance)
Reflex: +30 (+2 Monk +4 Paladin +3 DevMuse +3 Dex +13 Charisma +5 Cloak of Resistance)
Will: +27 (+0 Monk +8 Paladin +2 DevMuse -1 Wis +13 Charisma +5 Cloak of Resistance)

Attack Routine
Basic Flurry
+29/+29/+24/+19/+14 (20BAB+4 Strength +5 AoMF and Divine Bond)
1d8+11 (13 on first attack)
Using Power Attack, Ki and Personal Trial
+27/+27/+27/+22/+17/+12
1d8+33(35 on first attack)

As it currently stands, the build suffers from a bit weak of attacks in exchange for its high AC, although the remaining feats and option from Feinting could be used to enhance this, as could more consideration towards what to choose with the Amulet of Mighty Fists and spells. Between the ki pool and enhancement bonuses though, he can punch through any DR, which helps deal with potentially lower damage from the attack bonuses. Another level of monk to pick up Dodge earlier and add evasion may be worthwhile as an improvement as well.

Any suggestions and/or feedback?

EDIT: Fixed damage calculations

[Arutema]

Worshiping Arshea, Irori, and Shelyn at the same time is a bit of a hang up. Some things are made specific to one deity so that you can't mix and match with other deity specific abilities.

Also, the scaled disciple's cha to AC is untyped. So is the Iroran Paladin's. They do not stack.

[Mystral]

Worshiping Arshea, Irori, and Shelyn at the same time is a bit of a hang up. Some things are made specific to one deity so that you can't mix and match with other deity specific abilities.

Also, the scaled disciple's cha to AC is untyped. So is the Iroran Paladin's. They do not stack.

Untyped bonuses stack with everything except themselves.

[Technetium43]

Untyped bonuses stack with everything except themselves.

Except in this EXPLICIT situation in Pathfinder. You specifically cannot add an ability score to something more than once unless it's a different type.

[Sayt]

Actually, Enlightened Paladin gives Charisma to dex to AC, which is a slightly different thing, similar to getting an enhancement to natural armour to AC.

That said: I think you've overinvested in AC. Mogaru is 8 CR over you, and any given one of it's attacks is more likely to miss you than hit. Before you turn on Osyluth guile/personal challenge.

My suggestion? even out you point buy a little, and just go regular paladin.


Religiously, I can see compatibility between Shelyn and Arshea: NG patrons of beauty. Irori.....isn't strictly in conflict with this, but he doesn't have much to do with the other two's sphere's of influence.

[Serafina]

Well, the question is whether a Monks "ability score to AC" and a Enlightened Paladins "Charisma to Dexterity for AC" fall under that ruling.
Both are untyped bonuses, they do technically apply to different things, but are ultimately applied to the same score.

The exact text of the FAQ goes like this:

No. An ability bonus, such as "Strength bonus", is considered to be the same source for the purpose of bonuses from the same source not stacking. However, you can still add, for instance “a deflection bonus equal to your Charisma modifier” and your Charisma modifier. For this purpose, however, the paladin's untyped "bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws" from divine grace is considered to be the same as "Charisma bonus (if any)", and the same would be true for any other untyped "bonus equal to her [ability score] bonus" constructions.
Well, what this effectively means is that a Paladin effectively gets to use Charisma to modify their saves, in addition to using some other ability score. If you were a Paladin who got to use, say Charisma in place of Wisdom for Will saves - you wouldn't actually get Charisma twice to Will saves.

So effectively, a "untyped bonus to something based of an ability score" is the same thing as using that ability score for that bonus.
Your Strength-bonus to attack and damage is therefore an untyped bonus, and wouldn't stack with another Strength-based untyped bonus to your attack and damage. It'd stack with a Charisma-based untyped bonus, or even a Strength-based morale (or other type) bonus.

Now we just have to answer the question whether the bonus from "Confident Defense" is an untyped bonus.
Dexterity-to-AC is an untyped bonus everyone gets. You're increasing that bonus by your Charisma modifier.
So - how does this chain? Is that increase of your Dexterity-modifier itself an untyped bonus to your armor class?

To be fair, the most likely answer is yes. A more generous GM might go with the other interpretation.

Mind you, that only means you don't get the charisma-to-AC benefit from being an Iroran/Enlightened Paladin. You still get it to AC once, and then again from either Arshae or Devoted Muse, and then again if your GM allows you to worship both of them. That's still Charisma to AC three times, as well as once to saves, attack, damage and initiative.



That being said, you missed the obvious opportunity to REALLY maximize for high Charisma.
Why are you not a Sensei? Sensei stacks with Scaled Fist, and thus nets you an easy Charisma-to-attack-and-damage that's permanently on, if only with unarmed strikes and monk weapons.
Granted, this does prevent you from using the Glaive via Bladed Brush (since it's not a Monk weapon, and you can't really use Crusaders Flurry (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/crusader-s-flurry) if you go Sensei, though you could if you dip Sacred Fist).

So the build her would at least be Monk (Scaled Fist, Sensei) 2.
You can still go Iroran Paladin, but since you don't get Charisma-to-AC out of it, you might almost just go with normal Paladin instead.
Do ask your GM whether worshiping Arshae and Shelyn is okay. Paths of the Righteous does say that you can worship a pantheon that includes the deity, you might still qualify for the prestige class - and Shelyn and Arshea do go well together.

[Dire Roc]

That being said, you missed the obvious opportunity to REALLY maximize for high Charisma.
Why are you not a Sensei? Sensei stacks with Scaled Fist, and thus nets you an easy Charisma-to-attack-and-damage that's permanently on, if only with unarmed strikes and monk weapons.
Granted, this does prevent you from using the Glaive via Bladed Brush (since it's not a Monk weapon, and you can't really use Crusaders Flurry (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/crusader-s-flurry) if you go Sensei, though you could if you dip Sacred Fist).


Sensei does look like an interesting addition, I can't recall is it okay that Scaled Fist modifies the bonus feats and then Sensei replaces most of them? In that case stacking the two would definitely be worthwhile, even if I still need the strength for the prerequisites of Dragon's Ferocity and Power Attack. In all honesty this is mostly a theory build, seeing how high I could get a character's AC without any sort of armor, I would probably even out the stats a bit more if I were to actually play it.



Now we just have to answer the question whether the bonus from "Confident Defense" is an untyped bonus.
Dexterity-to-AC is an untyped bonus everyone gets. You're increasing that bonus by your Charisma modifier.
So - how does this chain? Is that increase of your Dexterity-modifier itself an untyped bonus to your armor class?

To be fair, the most likely answer is yes. A more generous GM might go with the other interpretation.
My interpretation for the AC was that the Charisma bonus from Confident Defense was added to the Dexterity bonus in a similar manner to the Enhancement bonus to natural armor from Barkskin. With the total bonus of charisma and dexterity being capped by armor, which is why we aren't wearing any.

I did realize an error in that I was adding the Precise Strike ability's damage even though I don't have anything making my unarmed strikes piercing. Perhaps I can trade out Osyluth Guile for Weapon Focus and Weapon Versatility.

I would definitely want to get an answer on if my DM were okay with such a... diverse theology. If I had to justify it, Irori lets paladins write their own code, so something in the vein of shaping oneself to physical perfection for the physical beauty aspects of the other two seems reasonable. And if the DM made the (not unreasonable) call that this was still silly and excessive, I think Arshea and Shelyn would still be worth going for on a normal paladin with unarmed strikes.

[Serafina]

The Iroran Paladin actually has zero worship requirements. Sure, it's in the name - but that's like you could play, say, a Wasteland Blightbreaker without actually being from that region. It's just the name of the class, and the rules don't have anything about "does have to fit that fluff".
No, Iroran Paladins (or as they're called on the PFSRD) are really just Paladins who strive for self-perfection, among other things. That's compatible with any Paladin-compatible deity.

As for fitting both Shelyn and Arshea:
Shelyn is the goddess of Beauty. Arshea is, among other things, the empyreal lord of physical beauty.
But Arsheas main focus is actually freedom. Specifically, freedom to express who you are. This matches very well with Shelyns "beauty comes from within" - in combination, it'd be about the liberty to express your inner beauty however you wish, and find your physical appearance beautiful no matter what it may be.
While Arshea is mostly about sexuality, and Shelyn about romantic love, you can combine their tenets nevertheless. Take Arsheas desire to share freely, and consider that it's perfectly possible to love multiple people. Focus on the recognition that one can express ones sexuality without romantic attachment - that the latter is too valuable to be determined by the former.

And lastly - it actually makes a lot of sens to worship both a main deity (such as Shelyn) and an Empyreal Lord (such as Arshea). The latter is explicitly a lower rank, and so your worship could very easily include that in some way or another.