Innate Spell like ability: invisibility

[alex1g]

I got a player who has innate spell like ability invisibility. I know he can can on himself but can he cast it at will on all his team mates. So question is does invisibility spell only apply to himself or others as well.

[Gruftzwerg]

I got a player who has innate spell like ability invisibility. I know he can can on himself but can he cast it at will on all his team mates. So question is does invisibility spell only apply to himself or others as well.

since it works as the spell, he can make one target (personal, target creature or object weighting up to 100lbs./lvl) per use invisible. He can't make all invisible in one use (1 action). But he can once per round make one traget invisible.

end: if he isn't limited in time, he can make all party members invisible.

The question is, why do you see it as problem? As long as you didn't houserule your players powerlvl into oblivion, they should be epic lvl now (otherwise you can't get Innitiate Spell: Invisibility. Archmage would be another option to get Invisibility as SLA, but that doesn't seem to be the situation here).
And if they are at epic lvl, the caster should have access to "Invisibility, Mass-" to make everybody invisible in one action.

[Troacctid]

Refer to the text. If it says it's self-only, it's self-only. Otherwise it's not.

[alex1g]

Yeah I saw that it's not self only, just thought that was a little overpowering. Figured I'd ask.

[Inevitability]

Yeah I saw that it's not self only, just thought that was a little overpowering. Figured I'd ask.

To get an Innate 2nd-level spell, you need to be what, level 21? By then, most monsters will have blindsight, tremorsense, mindsight, True Seeing or any of the other gazillion ways to detect invisible creatures.

In addition, this invisibility wears off once an affected creature attacks, and takes a standard action by the guy who took Innate spell to re-apply. Even if the party encounters something still fooled by invisible targets, it's going to notice them after they do anything bordering on offensive action.

[Gruftzwerg]

it's going to notice them after they do anything bordering on offensive action.

almost anything bordering on offensive action. Summoning monsters and commanding them to attack doesn't count as "offensive action", but you could say it is bordering on offensive action, imho.

[Inevitability]

almost anything bordering on offensive action. Summoning monsters and commanding them to attack doesn't count as "offensive action", but you could say it is bordering on offensive action, imho.

I considered writing 'offensive action except for a short and ill-defined list of stuff that is probably offensive but not when Invisibility is concerned', but felt like it might make the post less elegant. :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

Is it at-will / unlimited uses? Because that is a bit on the powerful side.

[Segev]

It sounds like people are assuming this is the high-level class feature of the Archmage, or an epic feat. This isn't in evidence from the OP, unless I missed something.

Can the original poster please clarify where this ability comes from?

[Inevitability]

It sounds like people are assuming this is the high-level class feature of the Archmage, or an epic feat. This isn't in evidence from the OP, unless I missed something.

Can the original poster please clarify where this ability comes from?

It seems pretty obvious to me it's the (non-epic) Innate Spell feat. The fact that I assumed epic levels is that to make a 2nd-level spell Innate, a 10th-level spell slot must be permanently sacrificed.

[Thurbane]

To get an Innate 2nd-level spell, you need to be what, level 21?

Or a first level Half-Giant with the Primordial template. So ECL 2.

[Crake]

Or a first level Half-Giant with the Primordial template. So ECL 2.

The way it's worded is pretty specific, lending to the idea that it was gained with the feat "innate spell like ability", why else would someone write it that way?

[Doctor Despair]

All SLAs are innate

[Thurbane]

Racial SLAs are often described as "innate" in various books.

Take the reqs for the Supernatural Transformation feat for Savage Species, for example:

Prerequisite: Innate spell-like ability.

[edit]Also, for what little it's worth, the Official FAQ uses the term this way as well:


Can a warlock qualify for the Supernatural Transformation feat (Savage Species, page 39) and change one of his invocations into a supernatural ability?
No. The warlock’s spell-like abilities are learned (from class levels), not innate (that is, part of his racial traits).


I guess none of us will know for sure until the OP replies. :smallwink:

[Zanos]

Or a first level Half-Giant with the Primordial template. So ECL 2.
Primordial giant is the correct answer. The player in question was a half ogre though and didn't actually qualify, so he's tweaking his character now I believe.

[Thurbane]

I can't help but think that the devs didn't really think that template through when they created it.

If I were to guess, the thought process was something like "Well giants have a bunch of RHD anyway, no one actually plays them...LA +0 sounds fine".

Completely forgetting about things like Half-Giants, Half-Ogres and Eneko.

At will Invisibility (for self and others) coming online at ECL 2 is kind of nuts.

[Troacctid]

Primordial giant is the correct answer. The player in question was a half ogre though and didn't actually qualify, so he's tweaking his character now I believe.

Half-Ogres are giants, IIRC, so they qualify just fine.

[Remuko]

Half-Ogres are giants, IIRC, so they qualify just fine.

I hope this isn't quoting too much but:

"Creating a Half-Ogre

"Half-ogre" is an inherited template that can be added to any creature of the giant, humanoid, or monstrous humanoid type (referred to hereafter as the "base creature") from Small to Huge in size.

A half-ogre uses all the base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

Size and Type: The base creature's type does not change. If the creature is of Small or Medium size, it gains a size category, becoming Medium or Large respectively. See Creature Size Changer for changes to the base creature when it gains a size category. The changes in this template are in addition to the changes outlined there."

[Troacctid]

The most recent printing has the giant type.

[Thurbane]

There is the Half-Ogre race (Savage Species, most recent version in Races of Destiny); then there is the Half-Ogre template (Dragon Magazine).

These are two totally different things, and often cause confusion.

[Rijan_Sai]

I hope this isn't quoting too much but:

"Creating a Half-Ogre

"Half-ogre" is an inherited template that can be added to any creature of the giant, humanoid, or monstrous humanoid type (referred to hereafter as the "base creature") from Small to Huge in size.

A half-ogre uses all the base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

Size and Type: The base creature's type does not change. If the creature is of Small or Medium size, it gains a size category, becoming Medium or Large respectively. See Creature Size Changer for changes to the base creature when it gains a size category. The changes in this template are in addition to the changes outlined there."
One thing you missed on the template, though is

"Giant Blood (Ex): For all special abilities and effects, a half-ogre is considered a giant in addition to the base creature's type and subtype. Half-ogres can use magic items with racially specific powers as giants"

[Remuko]

One thing you missed on the template, though is

"Giant Blood (Ex): For all special abilities and effects, a half-ogre is considered a giant in addition to the base creature's type and subtype. Half-ogres can use magic items with racially specific powers as giants"

ah. good eye.

[Thurbane]

Just wanted to point something out I hadn't noticed before (reading up on it for an NPC): the wording of the Primordial template says the CL of your SLA is equal to your RHD. It's quite specific about that. The template also gives a +1 CL increase on all SLAs.

So unless the character has RHD, his Invisibility will forever be CL 1, meaning it needs to be renewed every minute...

[Doctor Awkward]

Just wanted to point something out I hadn't noticed before (reading up on it for an NPC): the wording of the Primordial template says the CL of your SLA is equal to your RHD. It's quite specific about that. The template also gives a +1 CL increase on all SLAs.

So unless the character has RHD, his Invisibility will forever be CL 1, meaning it needs to be renewed every minute...

I want to second this, as it's something I also had not noticed before.

The example Primordial Giant creature is a Sun Giant Warlock 5, who has an at-will SLA of levitate at CL 14. Sun Giant is a MMII creature with 13 racial hit dice, which means the Magical Knack boost puts it at CL 14, and confirms Thurbane's interpretation of the template.

[Troacctid]

Basically, roll 1d10 at the start of every combat to see how many rounds are left on it.

[Inevitability]

Basically, roll 1d10 at the start of every combat to see how many rounds are left on it.

A more precise way to model this would be: roll 1d10, which is how many rounds that specific player has. Add one to determine how many rounds the next player has, and so on. If the number exceeds 10, it is lowered to 1.

So if the player rolls a 8 and has four other party members Invisible, he has 8 rounds and his party members respectively 9, 10, 1 and 2 rounds left.


That way, the casting of Invisibility on one person a round is more accurately modeled.

[Thurbane]

The are two ways I know of boost the CL from the Primordial template:

- Supernatural Transformation (SS) sets the CL to your HD (this does not specify RHD, so class levels count). I believe that since it becomes an Su ability, your +1 CL boost is lost.
- The Practiced Magic feat (Shackled City) boosts an SLA up to +4 CL, to a max of your HD (similar to the Practiced Spellcaster feat).