DCA (M&M) Newbie GM Questions

[Lipe82]

Hello everyone!

Hyped by the DC Rebirth series, me and some friends decided to play a Supers game, which I was chosen as GM. I already got a grip of the basics. These boards were extremelly helpful to understand the damage system, by the way.

I'd like to ask a few more things, from a (newbie) GM perspective:

1) Are there any points I should be especially mindful about so that the game doesn't start "broken"? I know that having offensive and defensive mods based on the series PL sounded like a great way to balance things out.

2) Is there any easy way to plan balanced/challenging encounters, "boss fights" and the such? I was thinking something along the lines of "PL equivalency", as in, "A 'PL X' villain is a fair challenge for a party of 3 'PL Y' characters". Or maybe, because of the ways powers can be customized, it really depends on the powers in play?

3) Is it too common to fall into problematic group compositions? Any tips to avoid these?
Even though all are PL10, I was afraid that having a Powerhouse and a Martial Artist in the same group traps us in the "Batman/Supes" pitfall (as in, anything challening for Batman is utterly destroyed by Supes, and any moderate challenge to Supes is absolutely devastating to Bats)

4) Any other hint about an easily overlooked mechanic or game-aiding idea?
Or maybe some game-breaking powers that we should be taking care with/moderating to avoid abuse?

I've already decided to make some Dazed/Staggered cards and "-1 Toughness" tokens to help us bookkeep combat/damage.

Thanks in advance, you all! :)

[JustIgnoreMe]

Disclaimer: I have played but not GMd this, and my copy of the rulebook is very light on GM advice.


1) Are there any points I should be especially mindful about so that the game doesn't start "broken"? I know that having offensive and defensive mods based on the series PL sounded like a great way to balance things out.

Make sure everyone's defences are appropriate for the PL: so the relevant pairs sum to 2xPL. Then make sure that everyone has an attack that likewise hits the PL, so skill+power = 2xPL. Everything else is pretty much as written (but see point 4).


2) Is there any easy way to plan balanced/challenging encounters, "boss fights" and the such? I was thinking something along the lines of "PL equivalency", as in, "A 'PL X' villain is a fair challenge for a party of 3 'PL Y' characters". Or maybe, because of the ways powers can be customized, it really depends on the powers in play?
From experience, a PL10 enemy is a match for a PL10 hero, unless one is a total tank and the other is a wimpy detective (or similar mismatched types). Two PL10 heroes should between them be able to defeat any PL10 villain. Four PL10s can probably take a PL11, again subject to build and vulnerabilites.

Which reminds me: make sure your villains have vulnerabilities! Points are for players, but one of the villain's saves should be low, or they should have a gizmo to be grabbed, or a weakness to Argonite.


3) Is it too common to fall into problematic group compositions? Any tips to avoid these?
Even though all are PL10, I was afraid that having a Powerhouse and a Martial Artist in the same group traps us in the "Batman/Supes" pitfall (as in, anything challening for Batman is utterly destroyed by Supes, and any moderate challenge to Supes is absolutely devastating to Bats)
Naah. Perfectly fine. PL10 Supes and PL10 Bats work fine together due to PL. So if Supes is Str20, he'll have to have a low Close Combat score and so will hit less often. Bats will have lower Str but will hit much more often.


4) Any other hint about an easily overlooked mechanic or game-aiding idea?
Or maybe some game-breaking powers that we should be taking care with/moderating to avoid abuse?
Watch out for Variable powers, Dynamic arrays, Sidekicks and Summons (hard-ban Heroic Summon unless you want a PL10 hero summoning four other PL10 heroes).

=edit to add=
I almost forgot the most important point: the Hero Point economy. Don't be miserly with Hero Points. They go away at the end of the adventure anyway. If you give out too few Hero Points, the combats will slow and the plot will stall.

I've already decided to make some Dazed/Staggered cards and "-1 Toughness" tokens to help us bookkeep combat/damage.
That is a great idea.

[Grod_The_Giant]

1) Are there any points I should be especially mindful about so that the game doesn't start "broken"? I know that having offensive and defensive mods based on the series PL sounded like a great way to balance things out.
You're much more likely to see characters who are too weak than that are too strong, I think. There are a few stupid things you can do, but you have to really sit down and try; on the other hand, it's fairly easy to...
Not buy strong enough defenses-- if anything is under PL caps, you're going to have a bad time, probably sooner rather than later.
Not buy strong enough offense-- if your main attack is under the PL cap, or if it's traded too far in either direction (ie, a Damage 6 power on a PL 10 hero), you're going to struggle in a fight. Even if it is on par, I generally recommend that you have at least one attack with a +1/rank modifier on it-- Area, Multiattack (Multiattack is crazy good), Perception... a totally vanilla Damage or Affliction can feel a little under-strength, sometimes.
Pick a concept that's too weak. Even if it's possible to make, say, a gun-toting vigilante work at PL 10, if you're not careful you probably will feel a bit sad compared to the speedster and the paragon in the party. Or you load all your powers up with interesting weaknesses and limits, then wind up running out of stuff to buy or having trouble competing with your friend who didn't. M&M makes strong characters.


2) Is there any easy way to plan balanced/challenging encounters, "boss fights" and the such? I was thinking something along the lines of "PL equivalency", as in, "A 'PL X' villain is a fair challenge for a party of 3 'PL Y' characters". Or maybe, because of the ways powers can be customized, it really depends on the powers in play?
I find that these guidelines (http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=24919&p=604377#p604377) work very well. I've been using them for years in any number of different groups and they've never steered me wrong.


3) Is it too common to fall into problematic group compositions? Any tips to avoid these?
Even though all are PL10, I was afraid that having a Powerhouse and a Martial Artist in the same group traps us in the "Batman/Supes" pitfall (as in, anything challening for Batman is utterly destroyed by Supes, and any moderate challenge to Supes is absolutely devastating to Bats)
As a general rule, powers >> skills. A character with powers to help with a thing will generally overshadow those without. The trick is "just that good" powers. If I build a Batman type character, I'm not limiting myself to skills and advantages; I'll build powers like
Master of All: Variable 1 (Skills and Advantages)
Master Detective: Senses 4 (Postcognition), Quirk/Feature: based off Investigate instead of Perception
Parkour: Movement 3 (Safe Fall, Swinging, Wall Crawling), Speed 2, Leaping 1
Martial Arts: A small array* of Close-ranged powers-- things like Hip Throw [Affliction (Dazed and Vulnerable, Stunned and Prone)], Eye Gouge [Damage linked to Affliction (visually Impaired, visually Disabled)], Grappler [Enhanced Strength, limited to Grabs]...
If you do things like that, then yeah, Batman will do just fine. Or load up on utility belt gadgets-- look at the sort of stuff Batman types do in cartoons like Young Justice or Justice League Unlimited; that's the sort of character you should be building.


4) Any other hint about an easily overlooked mechanic or game-aiding idea?
Pay attention to movement speeds. You can build encounters very differently if everyone can move hundreds or thousands of feet in a single actions.
When it comes to descriptions, go big or go home. Don't be afraid to catapult people around, especially if they have movement powers. "He hits you for five damage" is bad for any game, but doubly so for a superhero one. Instead, try things like "when he hits you, the force of the impact breaks every window in a five-block radius," or "he backhands you through the bank next door. And the grocery store behind it. And most of the office building behind that. You shake off the rubble of half a dozen walls and stumble to your feet, staring down a hundred-foot line of destruction shaped roughly like you." Leave no scenery undamaged.


*A base power and several Alternate Effects

[tensai_oni]

Watch out for Concealment powers. It's pretty easy and cheap to make a permanently invisible and impossible to hear character, who will become very annoying in combat. It's good as a one shot enemy, of the type that will make players think out of the box, but as a player character it will be either too powerful or require all opponents to have hard counters, making the power (and power point expenditure) pointless.

[Lipe82]

Guys, thanks for the great advice!

To make things easier on us, I'll be suggesting that my players build their first go at their characters by soft-customizing the Archetypes in the main book. So far we have a red lantern and an amazon (Energy Cotroller and Powerhouse, I'd assume, would be the used splats). Are those templates well rounded?

Also, just making sure I understood the Alternate Effect extra - basically it means I can have 2 different powers, by purchasing only one of them and having the other as a "different mode" of the power, correct? For example, the Lantern type ring could be something like...

RING (Total cost 27 pts)
Ranged Damage 12 (24pts)
Create 12, Movable, Stationary (2 pt: 1 alt effect +1 Movable extra)
Protection 12 (1 pt, alt effect))

Any mistakes in that math or rules?

[tensai_oni]

You calculate a power's full cost (with extras) and then make it an alternate effect, not make it an alternate effect and then add extras.

What I mean is that Create 12 + movable + stationary is worth 36 PPs: 2 per rank standard + 1 per rank for movable. It is the most expensive power in the array so others should be alternated off it.

Also while rules legal, alternating a defensive power like Protection is a bad idea because it means if you use other powers from the array, your Toughness score suddenly drops down to 0. Just buy it as a normal power instead.

[Lipe82]

Good point, I see.
So our ring could instead be Create Object 12 + extras for 36 PP, which our hero could instead use as a Ranged Damage 12 with Burst extra (as it would be the same cost). Actually make it +1 PP to pay for Alt FX.

That way he could effectively create prisions, barriers, or simply light constructs to damage a certain area. Right?

(which brings another doubt - the extra "burst" is always on, or could he hit single targets at will too?)

[tensai_oni]

Yeah, that's correct.

Burst is a shape chosen for the Area extra. Area turns the attack into an AoE, and it's on all the time - you can't turn it off. If you want both an area and a normal attack, the solution is to have another alternate power.

Also something to consider with alternates - you can only sustain one of them at a time, the currently "active" power from the array. This is why I mentioned the protection thing earlier. If you switch your active power, the protection can't be sustained so it turns off until you switch it back on as an active power. It's not a problem for damaging or debuffing powers because what they deal isn't a sustained effect, but for Create Object it means the constructs you made will disappear if you attack with an alternate power. If you really want them to stick around, you need to buy a Continous extra. But then I suppose it's fine if they disappear when you attack too. Fluff it as the Lantern removing all the constructs to focus on slamming the enemy with a giant fist or whatever.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Guys, thanks for the great advice!

To make things easier on us, I'll be suggesting that my players build their first go at their characters by soft-customizing the Archetypes in the main book. So far we have a red lantern and an amazon (Energy Cotroller and Powerhouse, I'd assume, would be the used splats). Are those templates well rounded?
Eh, they're alright. Not very creative or optimized, and a lot of them are kind of heavy on Advantages and Abilities (the Mystic has Fighting 4 :smallannoyed:). The Crime Fighter and Martial Artist are going to be pretty much useless, and I'd avoid both Variable-based guys for new players. Generally I'd look for ways to shave some points off the base and add in a few more alternate effects and/or utility powers.

The basic Green Lantern style array, I think, would be something like Continuous Create, Ranged Multiattack Damage, Ranged Area Damage, and Damaging Move Object.

[JustIgnoreMe]

There are some good fan write-ups of various comic book heroes on the Atomic Think Tank website, I'm sure there's at least 5 versions of a PL10 Green Lantern/Power Ring there. Plus of course there's the official stats in the Heroes & Villains books. Always good to crib off the work of others!

[Lipe82]

Thanks again for the info. I'll browse some of these and eventually come up with mine own.

But for chargen guidelines, I guess not unbalancing too much the PL caps (steering only 1 or 2 points from 10-10 if at all) and focusing on powers over skills will do it.

I still am just afraid of alternate effects tho. Tinkering with it, it seemed to create pretty ugly monsters of powers. One of my players will have an amazon shield, Cap style. And turns out it would do absurds ammounts of damage as a thrown weapon. I'm currently trying to find a good way to build it.

[JustIgnoreMe]

But remember damage is a PL trade-off with accuracy. If she's doing 20 damage with the shield, she's got +0 to hit.

[Lipe82]

But remember damage is a PL trade-off with accuracy. If she's doing 20 damage with the shield, she's got +0 to hit.

This is actually a great point. Take this shield of hers for example.

Let's say it has Impervious Toughness 20 (so it costs 20 PPs)
It has the alternative effect of Damage +20 as a thrown weapon (an extra 1 PP).

My questions
1) Is that how the point cots would work for this equipment?

2) It's damage is +20, which imposes a +0 tohit. How is this worked out in terms of sheet/mechanics? The character also have Throw mastery. So I wonder, does the high damage simply overides whatever relevant modifiers for tohit; OR the player can adjust the balance each time he uses it; OR he can arbitrarily discard some damage in favor of tohit, but only when he actually buys the power?

3) What would be a possible hotfix for this? I was thinking about having this damage with so many Extras that it would tone it down to 10 or so.

4) What happens if she just kept those values? She gets a penalty when using that specific attack only, right? Supposing we'd be crazy enough to keep our +0 shield of doom, her unarmed and other attacks wouldn't be affected, correct? I'm asking this because while it would be useless against foes of her PL, it would be the ultimate minion takedown machine if we get it to bounce/multitarget.

In any manner, all the info here are making me more and more confident to GM the game. I'm really, really thankful to you all.

[Grod_The_Giant]

You can usually go up to ~50% of PL in either direction without stretching things too much, I've found. Alternate Effects are very important, though. They're really the only way to build versatile characters in effective ways; if you don't use them,


This is actually a great point. Take this shield of hers for example.

Let's say it has Impervious Toughness 20 (so it costs 20 PPs)
It has the alternative effect of Damage +20 as a thrown weapon (an extra 1 PP).

My questions
1) Is that how the point cots would work for this equipment?
Yes and no. Yes, that's how the alternate effect works, but the Damage would only be usable at close range. You can't throw it and have it do all that damage without also having the Ranged modifier. (Think of a chainsaw, say-- yes, it's going to really mess you up if you swing it at a guy, but if you throw it at someone you're probably just going to smack them with the engine part). In this case, you'd probably want Strength-based Damage X, Ranged Y (where Y=X+Str rank)-- probably something like Strength-Based Damage 7, Ranged 10.

Also... I'm pretty sure you can't buy Impervious past the rank of the defense it's modifying. So unless she has Toughness 20, that's probably not valid.


2) It's damage is +20, which imposes a +0 tohit. How is this worked out in terms of sheet/mechanics? The character also have Throw mastery. So I wonder, does the high damage simply overides whatever relevant modifiers for tohit; OR the player can adjust the balance each time he uses it; OR he can arbitrarily discard some damage in favor of tohit, but only when he actually buys the power?
I don't think the rules explicitly call out what happens if you have, say, a Damage 20 power with a +5 to-hit bonus. I usually rule that the effect rank trumps the skill, as "it's too powerful to control properly" makes more sense to me than having a sort of built-in power attack. You can absolutely buy fewer ranks of the power at character creation; the Power Attack and Accurate Attack options/Advantages offer good ways to fiddle with things in-game.


3) What would be a possible hotfix for this? I was thinking about having this damage with so many Extras that it would tone it down to 10 or so.
Simply don't buy 20 ranks of Damage; you can absolutely have an alternate effect that doesn't use all the possible points. But that's kind of silly, so adding Modifiers is probably the way to go.


4) What happens if she just kept those values? She gets a penalty when using that specific attack only, right? Supposing we'd be crazy enough to keep our +0 shield of doom, her unarmed and other attacks wouldn't be affected, correct? I'm asking this because while it would be useless against foes of her PL, it would be the ultimate minion takedown machine if we get it to bounce/multitarget.
I suppose so, and yes. I actually don't think it would be very useful against minions, who (because they jump straight to the worst possible effect when they fail a check) go down pretty quickly against even low-rank powers. No, you'd want to try yonder insanely high-ranked Damage power against serious enemies, probably while using Hero Point/Luck rerolls and/or setting up some sort of debuffs first. Trip-Extra Effort-Damage 20 attack would be nasty.

[Elderand]

This is actually a great point. Take this shield of hers for example.

Let's say it has Impervious Toughness 20 (so it costs 20 PPs)
It has the alternative effect of Damage +20 as a thrown weapon (an extra 1 PP).

My questions
1) Is that how the point cots would work for this equipment?

Impervious toughness all on it's own would be 20 points, yes. But that means she already has a toughness score of 20, either from stamina or protection. If the shield is what grant both toughness and impervious toughness, then it cost 40 points. And if she is a PL 10 character she has 0 dodge and 0 parry.

Given that the alternate power is a thrown weapon, I think this is actually the following.

Cap's shield: array (40 points)
Protection 20, Impervious (40)
-Thrown shield: Ranged damage 20 (1)


2) It's damage is +20, which imposes a +0 tohit. How is this worked out in terms of sheet/mechanics? The character also have Throw mastery. So I wonder, does the high damage simply overides whatever relevant modifiers for tohit; OR the player can adjust the balance each time he uses it; OR he can arbitrarily discard some damage in favor of tohit, but only when he actually buys the power?

Short answer: You cannot adjust the balance on the fly.
Long answer: You can always chose to do less damage when you use any attack, pulling your punches, however this doesn't raise your accuracy at all. You can however use maneuvers (power attack or accurate attack) to shift the balance by 2 points in either direction. If you have the similarly named advantage, when you use the maneuvers you can instead shift the balance by 5 points.
Otherwise the balance is set when you buy the actual power. And I wouldn't recomend too drastic a shift, if you are a PL 10 character and your power is shifted more than....say 5 points in either direction, you're going to be next to useless.


3) What would be a possible hotfix for this? I was thinking about having this damage with so many Extras that it would tone it down to 10 or so.
There's no need for a "fix" you can just show restraint, just because you have the points to spend doesn't mean you should. And even if you do, you still have to respect PL limits.


4) What happens if she just kept those values? She gets a penalty when using that specific attack only, right? Supposing we'd be crazy enough to keep our +0 shield of doom, her unarmed and other attacks wouldn't be affected, correct? I'm asking this because while it would be useless against foes of her PL, it would be the ultimate minion takedown machine if we get it to bounce/multitarget.

Or...here is a crazy idea....you could just have it be a normal attack. Minions already suffer the worst possible effect of any failed check. In fact, with a +0 to hit, it wouldn't be the ultimate minion takedown machine because she couldn't hit any of them reliably.

If you want an exemple of a balanced, PL 10 captain america style character, check this.

ABILITIES
Strength 6, Stamina 6, Agility 6, Dexterity 6, fighting 10, intellect 4, awareness 4, presence 4

OFFENSE
Initiative 10
unarmed +12, close damage 6
Shield bash +12, close damage 8
Shield throw +12, ranged damage 8

DEFENSE
Dodge 12/10, parry 12/10
fortitude 10, toughness 8
will 10

ADVANTAGES
Assesment, close attack 2, Diehard, defensive roll 2, Evasion 2, improved defense, improved initiative, improved trip, inspire, leadership, power attack, Ranged attack 2, uncanny dodge

SKILLS
Acrobatics 4 (+10), athletics 4 (+10), intimidation 4 (+8), Insight 4 (+8), expertise: tactics 6 (+10), perception 6 (+10), stealth 4 (+10)

POWERS
Star sprangled shield: Easily removable (-6 points), indestructible (9)
--Turtle up: Cle range Deflect 12, reflect, redirect, limited to ranged attacks (12)
--AP: Shield throw: Strength based damage 2, ranged on 8, Diminished range 2, ricochet 2, accurate 2 (1)
--AP: Shield wall: Str based damage 2; Enhanced dodge and parry 2 (1)

Enhanced physiology: Leaping 1 (15ft), Speed 1 (4mph) (2)

POWER POINTS
Abilities 92 + defenses 14 + advantages 17 + skills 16 + powers 11 = 150/150

[JustIgnoreMe]

Batgirl III over at roninarmy has a PL10 Cap build: https://roninarmy.com/threads/766-?p=47435&viewfull=1

I've not played with it (although I did steal the "Avengers Assemble!" power for a friend's luck-based build), but it looks cool.

I think she did a PL10 Superman too.

[Beleriphon]

On Cap's shield type powers I'm fond of sustained immunity to conventional damage types, or even just damage in general reduced to half. That way it lets us model the fact that Captain American is really hard to hurt when he wants to be, and its not so expensive that it takes up three-quarters of the build points.

[Lipe82]

Yes guys, she doesn't have Toughness 20, that was just for sake of an example.
But once again, many many thanks. Each time I ask something here, I clarify it and learn a couple more cool stuff.

These PL 10 versions of iconic characters will be amazing to guide us. And I'm also making some pretty nice charts as aid for the actual game, when it's done I'll post them here.

Cheers!

[Lipe82]

Guys I guess this is my final question for the moment.

Checking the awesome Batgirl III's ready to play character threads at Atomic Think Tank (thanks for that tip!) I found a Captain America and checked its shield as base for the one I'm making for a player.

I found this component on his shield:
• Thrown
Damage 3 (Strength-based; E: Accurate [1], Ranged, Ricochet [1], Split [1]; F: Diminished Range [1]) [ 13 PP ]

I simply can't figure the math. How did it get to 13 PP?

[Elderand]

Guys I guess this is my final question for the moment.

Checking the awesome Batgirl III's ready to play character threads at Atomic Think Tank (thanks for that tip!) I found a Captain America and checked its shield as base for the one I'm making for a player.

I found this component on his shield:
• Thrown
Damage 3 (Strength-based; E: Accurate [1], Ranged, Ricochet [1], Split [1]; F: Diminished Range [1]) [ 13 PP ]

I simply can't figure the math. How did it get to 13 PP?

The ranged part apply to the strength of the character as well as the damage of the shield itself. it's just poorly written.

It's basically this:

Thrown shield: Strength based damage 3, ranged on 8, Accurate, Ricochet, Split, Diminished range (-1) (13)

[Lipe82]

@Elderand
Amazing, thank you!

"Ranged" actually refers to the "Reach" Extra, giving that shield a range of 40ft (~12 meters), correct?

[Grod_The_Giant]

@Elderand
Amazing, thank you!

"Ranged" actually refers to the "Reach" Extra, giving that shield a range of 40ft (~12 meters), correct?
It almost certainly means the "Increased Range" extra, increasing its range from Close to Ranged.

[Lipe82]

It almost certainly means the "Increased Range" extra, increasing its range from Close to Ranged.

Isn't range only +1 PP/rank though?
If the power is 3 ranks, shouldn't its cost be 3PP?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Isn't range only +1 PP/rank though?
If the power is 3 ranks, shouldn't its cost be 3PP?
Not exactly. As Elderand noted, the Damage power here is Strength-based, meaning it stacks with Strength's inherent ability to deal Damage. The total Damage rank is 3+strength, which in this case is 5. You need to apply the extra to the whole power-- thus, 8 ranks.

[Lipe82]

Not exactly. As Elderand noted, the Damage power here is Strength-based, meaning it stacks with Strength's inherent ability to deal Damage. The total Damage rank is 3+strength, which in this case is 5. You need to apply the extra to the whole power-- thus, 8 ranks.

Oh! That's good now, Grod.

Man, you see, this is the one beef I have with this system: its book isnt intuitive or well organized. The important gears of the rules seem to be scattered all over the place.

I'm falling in love with the actual system by the minute, as it is pretty different and interesting. I only wish they came up with a better write up.

In any manner, thanks!

[Grod_The_Giant]

No problem! I feel much the same-- it's not easy to get a hold of initially, but once it clicks building characters and powers becomes practically effortless. One of these days I need to finish writing that newbie's guide...

[Beleriphon]

Oh! That's good now, Grod.

Man, you see, this is the one beef I have with this system: its book isnt intuitive or well organized. The important gears of the rules seem to be scattered all over the place.

I'm falling in love with the actual system by the minute, as it is pretty different and interesting. I only wish they came up with a better write up.

In any manner, thanks!

DCA is pretty badly organized in general. For example you'd think the rules for how damage works would be in the combat section, but it isn't. The damage rules are found under the Damage effect, which makes sense since its explain how that effect works but it isn't excactly intuitive. The M&M 3E core rule book rejiggers the organization a bit and I find it somewhat better.