Wizard (Red Mage) Optimization

[Kileonhardt]

Got a game tomorrow and knowing myself I'll be tinkering with my new character up until game time, so I figured I'd also get opinions on it during tinkering time so here's what I'm working with:

High Elf Theurgy (Life) Wizard 10
Rolled stats of 13 / 16(18) / 14 / 17(20) / 13 / 13
One ASI spent getting INT to 20, one open ASI/Feat

Current spell list: Booming Blade, Chill Touch, Fire Bolt, Mage Hand, Mending, Absorb Elements, Bless, Comprehend Languages, Cure Wounds, Detect Magic, Find Familiar, Identify, Mage Armor, Shield, Hold Person, Lesser Restoration, Scorching Ray, Spiritual Weapon, Fireball, Leomund's Tiny Hut, Slow, Tidal Wave, Death Ward, Polymorph, Wall of Fire, Hold Monster, Mass Cure Wounds, Raise Dead, Wall of Force.

Currently I'm leaning towards taking Alert or Warcaster for my feat and my domain and spells are all open to change. So what is everyone else's opinion on optimizing for Red Mage. Might even be willing to take first level as fighter for CON proficiency, which would also make me swap DEX and CON stats and go Fire Genasi.

For those who don't know a Red Mage is a job in Final Fantasy that can fight with weapons and knows both white and black magic.

[Ziegander]

I would absolutely take at least 1 level of Fighter.

For something a little more true to form there's always Fighter (EK) 8/Wizard (Theurge) 12 for casting as a 14th level Wizard, 6 ASIs, and War Magic as well as weapon & armor profs, action surge, etc.

As early as 8th level (EK 5/Theurge 3) you cast as many spells per day as a Paladin.

For a different take there's always Paladin 2/Favored Soul X, though admittedly it's just not quite the same.

Of course straight up Valor Bard isn't too far off either. Red Mage has always been something I always wished D&D did better. It wasn't until I looked back at AD&D until I noticed back then the Bard was about half a rogue with wizard spells. Not bad!

[Kileonhardt]

I would absolutely take at least 1 level of Fighter.

For something a little more true to form there's always Fighter (EK) 8/Wizard (Theurge) 12 for casting as a 14th level Wizard, 6 ASIs, and War Magic as well as weapon & armor profs, action surge, etc.
Red Mage has always been something I always wished D&D did better.

EK was something I did think about but giving up that much spell progression this early on feels rough. Single level of Fighter though is really tempting since it pushes the Red Mage into the "stronger" variant who can use heavy armor.

There's enough options in 5E to make some "decent" Red Mages, in RP at least, but man are there too many options to choose from which makes me tinker with it non stop.

[brainface]

You need two levels of fighter for action surge, because then you have doublecast.

Also losing two levels of a spellcasting class isn't near the penalty as it was in third, you've got fireball, you'll be fine. Red mages are supposed to be a little spell delayed anyway.

[Kileonhardt]

You need two levels of fighter for action surge, because then you have doublecast.

Also losing two levels of a spellcasting class isn't near the penalty as it was in third, you've got fireball, you'll be fine. Red mages are supposed to be a little spell delayed anyway.

Yeah I'll probably grab 2 levels fighter if I dip it, which I will be doing if my DM confirms he's giving me a wooden sword (re-flavored quarterstaff) I can use with Shillelagh.

[Specter]

Usually using swords and casting spells get in each other's way. I would avoid it completely but if you're set on that, a few ways to make it work:

- Your build, grabbing Warcaster. It could be good, though your weapon attacks will shy in comparison to your cantrips.
- Paladin 2/Valor Bard X. What's attractive about bard is healing word; revive someone and lay the smash on the enemy. Higher slots of spells means you can smite all day.
- Paladin 2/Favored Soul X: all the healing spells you want, plus staying power and damage. If you grab Subtle Spell, you don't evenneed to take Warcaster.

Or, just give up carrying a weapon, take Resilient (CON) and be happy.

[Falcon X]

Theurgy Wizard is the best way to go.
- Life if you want stronger healing (cause you aren't boosting it otherwise)
- Knowledge if you want to re-write your character sheet all the time (8-Bit Theater shout-out!)

You definitely need to level dip once or twice for fighting ability.
- Cleric 1 would do it. Death and War would net you Martial Weapons and Medium Armor which Red Mage would Have, as well as an expanded spell list and a second attack.
- Fighter 2. Cause Martial weapons and Doublecast.

[Kileonhardt]

Usually using swords and casting spells get in each other's way. I would avoid it completely but if you're set on that, a few ways to make it work:

Or, just give up carrying a weapon, take Resilient (CON) and be happy.

Carrying a weapon doesn't hurt so long as I'm not using a shield. Still have a free hand for casting. I agree healing word is really great to take though, so I picked it up with Magic Initiate since I was using it to grab Shillelagh anyway.


Theurgy Wizard is the best way to go.
- Life if you want stronger healing (cause you aren't boosting it otherwise)
- Knowledge if you want to re-write your character sheet all the time (8-Bit Theater shout-out!)

You definitely need to level dip once or twice for fighting ability.
- Cleric 1 would do it. Death and War would net you Martial Weapons and Medium Armor which Red Mage would Have, as well as an expanded spell list and a second attack.
- Fighter 2. Cause Martial weapons and Doublecast.

Yeah my DM ended up giving me a wooden sword to use with Shillelagh so I re-wrote to 2 Fighter for double cast and took Magic Initiate.

[Toadkiller]

Shillelagh uses wisdom though if you get it via the feat. So you aren't very good with it unless you ramp that up which is otherwise not very helpful.

[Specter]

Carrying a weapon doesn't hurt so long as I'm not using a shield. Still have a free hand for casting. I agree healing word is really great to take though, so I picked it up with Magic Initiate since I was using it to grab Shillelagh anyway.

Yeah my DM ended up giving me a wooden sword to use with Shillelagh so I re-wrote to 2 Fighter for double cast and took Magic Initiate.

You can still take both if you take it for Druid spells. Best of luck.

[Kileonhardt]

Shillelagh uses wisdom though if you get it via the feat. So you aren't very good with it unless you ramp that up which is otherwise not very helpful.

RAW that's correct, but my DM had ruled a while ago that whatever spells you choose from it work off your own spellcasting modifier. Something about not wanting the feat to be overshadowed by the martial options (GWM/Sharpshooter).

He's pretty lenient about feats. Hell, two people in my group have Lucky.