Carrying capacity, does anyone actually like doing it?

[BlackDog918]

So I'm having an argument with my DM about carrying capacity. Him for, me against.

For some context, he, myself, and the other players have been playing together for years. Carrying capacity has been used in our Rise of the Runelords campaign but until then (very recently, I may add) we never really gave it a second thought. It was one of those things that we kind of handwaved as long as it didn't get ridiculous, I.e. a golf bag full of greatswords, four suits of fullplate and fifty flasks of acid. Now he wants to use the rules and I'm not too fond of the idea, really.

My reasoning for such a thing is that tracking weight has always been nothing but an annoyance for me and other people, at least down to the last ounce. There is nothing fun to be gained by tracking the weight of every piece of equipment on your sheet, and totaling the weight of every piece of loot and figuring out who's going to carry it and how you're going to get it out of the dungeon, and quite frankly that is valuable time that could be spent roleplaying or fighting monsters.

My point is, am I alone here? Decisions can't be made in a vacuum and I need to know if anyone else thinks the same way I do. What do you think, playground? Are the weight rules a waste of time?

[OldTrees1]

It depends on the system and the person.

Personally I like Dark Souls's carrying capacity rules but I don't like D&D's. I think that partially comes down to the overhead of calculation. In the former I do not need to calculate anything, but in the latter I need to do all the calculations.

However people will differ in what reasons would make them like or dislike such a rule and differ in where those reasons leave them.

I expect the logistic puzzles and encounters the CC rules bring would have some positive value to you and your fellow players. The question is if the DM thinks the positive outweighs the negative.

[BlackDog918]

See, I don't think it's a positive vs negative in this case. Merely an adherence to RAW, which at the end of the day must be tempered with the all important reasoning of whether or not the game is fun. It is a game, after all.

[GilesTheCleric]

As a GM, I give my players access to magical storage as soon as is reasonable, usually as loot that I don't count against WBL. If we wanted to play a gritty game, we'd play E6 or an older edition. As a player, I usually play a dwarf, buy magical storage, or get mules.

[Eldariel]

In the no-magic campaign I've been journalling it's actually been an important factor. That's mostly because of the lack of magic items though. In general, it's nice that someone hit by Ray of Enfeeblement might slump under their heavy equipment but it is admittedly a fair bit of extra paperwork. I generally do adhere to it - as long as my players are into the simulationist mindset.

[ryu]

In the no-magic campaign I've been journalling it's actually been an important factor. That's mostly because of the lack of magic items though. In general, it's nice that someone hit by Ray of Enfeeblement might slump under their heavy equipment but it is admittedly a fair bit of extra paperwork. I generally do adhere to it - as long as my players are into the simulationist mindset.

Except people wearing heavy equipment have a strong tendency to be muggles otherwise known as the classes least in need of being given yet more weaknesses.

[OldTrees1]

See, I don't think it's a positive vs negative in this case. Merely an adherence to RAW, which at the end of the day must be tempered with the all important reasoning of whether or not the game is fun. It is a game, after all.

Try not to claim to disagree when your post speaks mostly of agreement. It is confusing on various levels(For example: it makes one doubt if you understand the point of the poster & it makes one doubt if your words match your point). All in all it just lends itself to pages of talking past each other.

If you think that whether or not the game is fun in the final determining factor then you are talking about the DM weighing the positives and negatives as they, the person in the position making the decision, predicts them.

You have played with this individual too long for me to honestly believe you doubt their intentions, even if it is all to believable for you too doubt their estimates. If you are correct then a discussion is more likely to be beneficial than an argument. Good luck!

[Naez]

The biggest impact I've seen it have is it keeps casters out of armor. It is ridiculous easy (but expensive) to make 0 ASF armor, but even with that for many casters, assuming they've dumped strength and are using point buy, it'd still put them at a medium load. And losing maneuverability can be a death sentence.

[Eldariel]

Except people wearing heavy equipment have a strong tendency to be muggles otherwise known as the classes least in need of being given yet more weaknesses.

Just a drop in the ocean - not like it meaningfully alters the dynamics. It just adds to the verisimilitude.

[ryu]

The biggest impact I've seen it have is it keeps casters out of armor. It is ridiculous easy (but expensive) to make 0 ASF armor, but even with that for many casters, assuming they've dumped strength and are using point buy, it'd still put them at a medium load. And losing maneuverability can be a death sentence.

I mean what? Casters have way more valuable things to buy than a few points of AC with or without carrying capacity...

[OldTrees1]

I mean what? Casters have way more valuable things to buy than a few points of AC with or without carrying capacity...

To be fair, casters also have orders of magnitude more wealth by level than they need. Buying some pitiful armor is basically free.

[ryu]

To be fair, casters also have orders of magnitude more wealth by level than they need. Buying some pitiful armor is basically free.

It's still low enough on the priorities list I'd never do it. I mean there's a LOT of good things you're forgoing for a few piddly points of protection.

[GilesTheCleric]

It's still low enough on the priorities list I'd never do it. I mean there's a LOT of good things you're forgoing for a few piddly points of protection.

Buying a Beekeeper's Outfit is worth it, I think. Not for the AC, but for the enchantments.

[ryu]

Buying a Beekeeper's Outfit is worth it, I think. Not for the AC, but for the enchantments.

Could possibly be. Which specific ones did you have in mind?

[GilesTheCleric]

Could possibly be. Which specific ones did you have in mind?

For Clerics, the list is a bit different than a generic "everyone can use this". Here's my average-and-above Cleric picks from the most common books (DMG, MIC, etc):

Aporter
Death Ward
Displacement
Quickness
Undead Controlling
Mirror Image
Restful
Sacred
Soulfire


I strongly value low price in my evaluation, so there might be some +4/+5 enchantments that I don't think are worth the cost but that you do.

[ryu]

For Clerics, the list is a bit different than a generic "everyone can use this". Here's my average-and-above Cleric picks from the most common books (DMG, MIC, etc):

Aporter
Death Ward
Displacement
Quickness
Undead Controlling
Mirror Image
Restful
Sacred
Soulfire


I strongly value low price in my evaluation, so there might be some +4/+5 enchantments that I don't think are worth the cost but that you do.

I mean... Always on buffs and immunities are a case. Certainly more worth than just some AC.... I'd put at around low-mid tier on the priority list which could actually happen. It's better than literally the bottom at least.

[GilesTheCleric]

I mean... Always on buffs and immunities are a case. Certainly more worth than just some AC.... I'd put at around low-mid tier on the priority list which could actually happen. It's better than literally the bottom at least.

I agree with you entirely. That's why I value low price so strongly -- it allows for more of those types of effects at once, which usually ends up saving spell slots. I would definitely value most of these below a nice MM rod, special spell components, or broken items like Bowl of Contemplation or Candle of Invocation.

[ryu]

I agree with you entirely. That's why I value low price so strongly -- it allows for more of those types of effects at once, which usually ends up saving spell slots. I would definitely value most of these below a nice MM rod, special spell components, or broken items like Bowl of Contemplation or Candle of Invocation.

Also similarly below bb's books, metamagic rods, crafted contingent spells, extra spells known, a ready stock of pearls of power, that awesome sleeping bag that cuts sleep to one hour per night, always on true sight, always on freedom of movement, and various other things.

[Mordaedil]

Now, you have to realize that there are ways around encumbrance, even at low-levels. Buying a carriage, or even a cart, hire or buy a donkey or horse and you can pretty much solve most of the early level problems, and by 3rd level, you can get a a Heward's Handy Haversack and you can just forget about encumbrance for the most part.

Like a previous poster said though, Dark Souls does this better by making it a game mechanic that is optional.

[ryu]

Now, you have to realize that there are ways around encumbrance, even at low-levels. Buying a carriage, or even a cart, hire or buy a donkey or horse and you can pretty much solve most of the early level problems, and by 3rd level, you can get a a Heward's Handy Haversack and you can just forget about encumbrance for the most part.

Like a previous poster said though, Dark Souls does this better by making it a game mechanic that is optional.

Eh, I wouldn't say it's entirely optional. It's just that you have an infinite, weightless bag of holding and are only encumbered by stuff you're actively using/have ready to use.

[Firest Kathon]

I would say it basically comes down to equipment vs. non-equipment (i.e. loot or non-encounter-stuff). As a GM I would track weight for carried, readily available equipment, but not for stuff kept in the level-appropriate carraige (mule, cart, bag of holding). This is with the understanding that stored equipment will not be readily available (move or full-round action) if needed but will have to be retrieved (X rounds).

[Crake]

I would say it basically comes down to equipment vs. non-equipment (i.e. loot or non-encounter-stuff). As a GM I would track weight for carried, readily available equipment, but not for stuff kept in the level-appropriate carraige (mule, cart, bag of holding). This is with the understanding that stored equipment will not be readily available (move or full-round action) if needed but will have to be retrieved (X rounds).

That's what handy haver sacks and belts of many pouches are for :smalltongue:

[rrwoods]

This hasn't even come up as a question in games I've played. We run with it, and each player is responsible for being relatively honest in whatever way is most convenient for them. My sheet (link in sig) does all the calculations for me so I don't have an issue.

I think if I ran a game where it became an issue I'd probably either remove the rule entirely or use an easier-to-manage variant (maybe precalculate a max weight for armor and not worry about much else).

[Alcore]

I like doing it but I'm with you.


I total it all up and then forget unless my STR score warrants a steady eye on it. I enforce the rules myself and while one gm questioned it none have challenged it. Most gms I have met will ignore the rule altogether; like my level one half orc with twenty strength.


Even when I am the gm I often ignore the rule unless something seems out of place. I am more worried about WBL than that.

[D.M.Hentchel]

Generally just eyeball it for me. Treat most worn magic items as negligible (as well as scrolls and pots.). Though I have noticed that rogues tend to get screwed the most by it.

[Ualaa]

Our group uses carrying capacity rules.

The characters are all built in Hero Lab.
That version of the character sheet has to be a legal build, within the build rules for that campaign.

HL can apply stacking buffs or debuffs, and conditions, and everything stacks as the rules dictate.
If there are bugs, or perceived bugs, the developers are great at fixing those usually by the next month's update.
Not all perceived bugs are in fact bugs, sometimes the rules aren't as clear as one would like.

We've used carrying capacity for three or four campaigns now.
Basically once we switched to electronic sheets.
Which was via DM Genie, for 3.x edition of the game.
And later Hero Lab for Pathfinder.

Being a packrat is fine...
But it has an impact on physical skills, max Dex bonus and the Run action.

[Elkad]

Except people wearing heavy equipment have a strong tendency to be muggles otherwise known as the classes least in need of being given yet more weaknesses.

The muggles are already wearing medium/heavy armor, so a medium load changes nothing. By the time they switch to that enchanted Mithril Breastplate, they have Str:20+ are large, and/or have weightless storage.

The 6str whisper gnomes and strongheart halflings are the ones who get penalized. Exactly who you want it to happen to.

"My cat familiar is riding my shoulder."
"You realize it weighs at least 5lbs, and you have a spellbook, component pouch, lantern, pants, etc. Medium load unless it walks. Er, didn't you have 50' of hemp rope? Yeah, heavy load, don't bother adding it up, you might have to stop moving completely."

"I drag my unconscious riding dog out of combat"
"Wait, what? You said it was a 180lb St Bernard. Your max drag is 75lbs. You get nowhere, and now your back hurts. You can chop off his head and drag that, but the rest is too heavy."

[ryu]

The muggles are already wearing medium/heavy armor, so a medium load changes nothing. By the time they switch to that enchanted Mithril Breastplate, they have Str:20+ are large, and/or have weightless storage.

The 6str whisper gnomes and strongheart halflings are the ones who get penalized. Exactly who you want it to happen to.

"My cat familiar is riding my shoulder."
"You realize it weighs at least 5lbs, and you have a spellbook, component pouch, lantern, pants, etc. Medium load unless it walks. Er, didn't you have 50' of hemp rope? Yeah, heavy load, don't bother adding it up, you might have to stop moving completely."

"I drag my unconscious riding dog out of combat"
"Wait, what? You said it was a 180lb St Bernard. Your max drag is 75lbs. You get nowhere, and now your back hurts. You can chop off his head and drag that, but the rest is too heavy."

Except literally every single caster class is either naturally at least somewhat using strength, constantly in a different form, or entirely capable of adventuring with less than 20 total pounds of equipment the heaviest of which being the book. Do you have any idea how long it's been since I had a wizard that actually noticed if you drained his strength less than five points? And even then just dropping non-combat related items in one fluid motion before continuing as normal?

[supersonic29]

I usually try to at least open the campaign with adherence to it, after all, you know how that new character looking at the general adventuring gear and the cheap prices can be. Forward from there I'm just looking out for them trying to take heavy things with them on a whim, especially if I know they packed to the brim of their capacity at the campaign's start. As has of course been pointed out, the real solution is magical storage, there's no reason for at least the frail characters to lack this, they need a bag of tricks as well :smallwink:

[Deophaun]

I often wind up spending 1000 gp for a mithral gauntlet just for the extra lb of weight savings. Yes, I play with encumbrance and I like it that way.

"My cat familiar is riding my shoulder."
"You realize it weighs at least 5lbs...
If it's always riding around on your shoulder, probably more like 40.

[hifidelity2]

In my groups we tend to hand wave it unless someone’s STR state changes

The DM has the right to look at the char sheets and then ask how are you carrying the 12 suite of plate mail


As a party we tend in D&D to invest in the odd bag of holding as soon as we can afford it

[nyjastul69]

As a player, I track my own encumbrance. As a DM I require the players to do so as well.

[TheIronGolem]

If we're all using Hero Lab or some similar tool that handles the calculations for us on the fly and a significant chunk of the party has abilities that interact with encumbrance, then I might use encumbrance. Otherwise the cost outweighs the benefit, and I prefer to just eyeball it. Most of the time in my experience, all encumbrance does is turn murderhobos into murderhobos with carts.

[mistermysterio]

We try to stick to it, but we usually ignore coin/currency weight.

Gold gets heavy very quickly.

[legomaster00156]

Not once, in any of the games I GM, have I ever paid any attention to carrying strength.

[El Dorado]

We use carrying capacity rules but it's rare that the GM will ask us to check our numbers. The players are pretty good about tracking their own gear. Our PCs also typically have riding horses so a lot of miscellaneous bits get stowed on them.

If your gear is slowing you down, you may want to calculate your character's "combat weight". Basically, armor, weapons, potions, etc that they keep on their person but not in their backpack. When a fight starts, drop your pack (this hopefully restores your normal speed) and when the fight's over, retrieve your pack. This will also hopefully satisfy your GM's desire for verisimilitude.

[John Longarrow]

I use it as both player and DM. It avoids a lot of silliness that would otherwise pop up.

I've seen a couple players who were called on how much they were carrying when they had silly amounts of gear but no way to justify it. Then again I've also played the "Sickly high STR character with the Natural heavy weight feat for double carrying capacity". That was a fun character, carried a 150 lbs chest without breaking light load.

[PacMan2247]

I've tracked it on every character I've made for the last three decades, and paid particular attention on lower Strength characters or those with abilities like flight where it becomes more relevant. That said, I've never policed other players unless I was the DM and they gave me reason to do it. Roleplaying is about the choices our characters make, and sometimes that includes hard choices about what to bring with us.

[icefractal]

I'll say one thing for it, it really makes you appreciate magical storage.
Without carrying capacity: "Oh, a Bag of Holding - sure, that's handy."
With carrying capacity: "Hell yes, a Bag of Holding!"

As a GM, I track it pretty loosely - a low-Strength character can't just cart around a bunch of extra armor to sell or a big statue, but I'm not going to add up the weight of every torch. As a player I'll track it tightly if the GM wants to (and make acquiring better storage a priority), but otherwise will just eyeball it.

I wouldn't say that carts are a trivial solution though - it is a pain in the ass to get a cart and/or mule through tight environments, stealth situations - heck, even a meeting inside a tavern if there isn't a guarded stable. Strong hirelings with backpacks are preferable, but not always available or trustworthy.

[Marlowe]

I track it and try to keep my characters right on the cusp of light encumbrance. I don't even understand why people think they shouldn't have to. Not tracking your encumbrance strikes me as a bit like ignoring damage. You don't just get to ignore a part of the game just because you find it tedious.

Inventory management, the striking of a balance between what you want to have and what won't slow you down, has always been a part of RPGs and I'm perplexed the number of people that see it as a distraction.

Yes, the likes of handy haversacks, bags of holding, efficient quivers and the like are quite high on the priority list when it comes to magic items.

[martixy]

My group and I haven't done it.

Granted, we tend to avoid the extra-low levels, which means it's been largely irrelevant due to the ready availability of extradimensional storage.

I have however used it in a brief campaign outside my usual group, where I played a character who had STR as a dump stat, meaning it was important to track. Even then it was rather loose, and that DM had no issue with that.

[finaldooms]

Personally ive either ignored it or give everyone a free bag of holding at the start ( plus a bag of coin holding because money has weight too) ..it rarely comes up unless someone is being stupid ( low str and wanting everything) or we happen to encounter alot of str damage

[VincentTakeda]

My characters are all on spreadsheets. Calculations of this magnitude seem trivial. At the end of the day I do find myself enjoying it. Its simplicity keeps it from seeming *too* wastefully pedantic for my tastes. Plus I love me some handy haversacks and tracking this kinda stuff gives me an excuse to buy one. I like the immersion.

[Pugwampy]

We try to stick to it, but we usually ignore coin/currency weight.

Gold gets heavy very quickly.

I tried doing realistic coin currency/weight once . I broad estimate a 150 coins max out the coin pouch . Had banks that used letters of credit . Pointless since most heroes spend way more .

Trying to be realistic adds too much admin that ruins the fun. For the sake of fun ....unlimited money.

So if your coin purse can hold unlimited gold , you might as well do the same for your backpack . I prefer to label backpack goodies and money as your over all possessions perhaps not all on your personal body but "close by " for easy access , assuming any smart alec wishes for an explanation but they never have .

At the end of the day this is only a game .

[Kelb_Panthera]

We keep a loose eye on it unless somebody has to stay under a medium load for class features, flight, etc. It's usually trivialized by extra-dimensional storage by early-mid levels at the latest but it matters until then.

[Pleh]

Nah. I'm with you. Unless we find a scenario where carrying capacity is likely to matter, we assume it doesn't.

Heck. Most of my games assume infinite mundane ammo until we have reason to assume otherwise. It's just more work than most of my parties care to deal with.

[Telonius]

For me, it doesn't matter unless it does. If you're in a situation where carrying capacity is going to be a big issue and a plot point, I'd probably track it. (Think, transporting Smaug's hoard, or moving a bunch of really large and heavy things; or stranded low-level in the middle of nowhere, with no pack animal and needing to make sure you have enough water with you). Outside of those unusual situations, I just don't bother. Encumbrance by armor, sure. But tracking weight adds so little to the game at a cost of so much annoying book-keeping, it's just never seemed worth it.

[NerdHut]

In my group it varies slightly by who's DMing, but personally I tend to loosely enforce it.

Got a human with 12 STR? Sure, as long as it sounds like what a strong guy could carry, you're good.
8 STR Gnome? Better ask the human if he'll carry some of your extra gear.
Centaur with 20 STR? You want to carry a small boulder for no reason? Yeah, sure, it's fine.

If RAW says you can carry 33 lbs as a light load, and you're carrying about 35, it's not a problem for me. Carrying Capacity serves as a method of keeping your players from easily carrying a veritable armory with them. Enforcing it in such a way that penalizes a player for just trying to equip their character is not fun.

[Seto]

I strongly agree with you, OP. I favor a video-gamey approach to equipment: you pick it up, it goes into your bag that can hold a great many things, you take it out when you need it. When I DM, I always tell my players that encumbrance won't matter and that they don't need to keep track. There are two possible exceptions I would make to that approach:
- Players trying to abuse it. I'm even okay with things that should not be physically possible (like, carrying thousands of GP on one's person), because I tend to treat equipment as an abstract numerical value rather than material objects (the numbers of GP you have is a variable, weapons are a combination of boni and damage types). But when players decide they'll take doors from a dungeon, or a huge metal cauldron, or a grandfather clock, and carry them around? That's being silly. (Yes, I've seen all of those things).
- When it gets relevant to the story or the present challenge. I'm fine with them lugging around trunks of gold, weapons and armor when the narrative is about hunting beasts or defeating knights. But sometimes, if, say, they're traveling across a dangerous desert, and the desert evolves from being the background of the scene to being the focus of the narrative and the challenge itself, I'll describe how hot they get and how unpleasant their armor is to wear, and how they're getting tired from carrying all that loot. Then maybe I'll make them roll for fatigue or something.

[Efrate]

I dont pay too much attention, unless someone is being silly like trying to take doors off the dungeon. Then it comes in, but by that time extra-dimensional storage is is a common thing. I never track GP weight. It is only relevant when swimming, or at low levels, and it hurts the skill classes most. No one cares if the caster wants to wear armor. The nimble guy with the pack full off oddities to handle all kinds of weird situations is hurt, because he is likely low strength, and values mobility. All of these things kind of hurt an already weak and easily replaceable role in the party.

I have a GM who is currently tracking it and its frustrating, thankfully my speed is the same as our big guy in armor so as long as I stay behind him its not a major issue. At low levels its huge before you an buy stuff, or in a situation where you cannot have a mule, or at level 1 which is already the deadliest level. I make a habit of dropping my pack every combat, since at level 3 I have nothing valuable enough to risk since its been low treasure so far since my total wealth is around 400gp, pretty much all of which is in cure light wounds potions since we have no other way to heal currently.

Unless swimming or something however, its never worth the track, unless something goes absurd.

[kuhaica]

Depends on the game in my group. For example a more lax game no one cares, while a tense game with survival being the top priority you want to be smart ever pound counts.

In the current game I'm running I've made weight extremely important. Mostly because I know my players to well. And it's now lead to some interesting ideas for them on how to litterly explain how they can carry all the stuff they just took from a house. And not be hindered by it.

And that is simply a Caravan. Many of my players are now putting Skills into useless craft or profession Skills to make craft goods on down time to sell them. And acting like a traveling merchant band. It's already made some interesting RP and has taken the campaign from being something of a hero quest to a merchant experience.

I've run other games where it was a hard survival game
Making the players worry about carrying to much as they need to manage everything correctly. And spending hours debating what to use and what to bring.


So end of the day. It depends on what you want to do. And if you think players can have fun. And in a high magic campaign. Doesn't matter to much when you can get a bag of holding for some chump change. However to suddenly start using it after not using is silly in my opinion.

[P.F.]

I usually track it enough to keep my character under a light load; if I have excess capacity including all my equipment then I carry party treasure as well.

On my current character I track it a lot more carefully because he is weak, and old. I have just enough to carry the things I absolutely need, but I can't go around carrying quest items or picking up heavy books I want to read--I ask someone to bring it and set it on the table. I can't bring 50' of hemp rope with me when I fly across the chasm, not even with my girdle of Strength +2, which I wear because "it helps with my polymyositis."

I'm not just pretending to be old and feeble ... my character can't lift the stone off the floor. Everyone laughs about it, and then someone comes over and helps the wizard. So yes, in this case, I would say I like doing carrying capacity.

[Âmesang]

I have a habit of following encumbrance rules… heck, if I play a character long enough and collect a lot of stuff (whether mundane or magical), I end up calculating it all in a spreadsheet (also helps for calculating PC or NPC stats when leveling up or just keeping track of general notes like feats, items, &c). If anything it's allowed me to appreciate methods of reducing weight such as alternate forms of currency (exchanging gold pieces for platinum pieces/trade bars, if possible, and not immediately selling off gem stones and art objects). I just don't see anyone carrying around 20,000 gold pieces; I don't even see anyone buying or selling anything for literally "20,000 gold pieces." Who's got the time to count out each and every piece? Though I suppose that's what scales were for.

Now even as a referee I wouldn't expect a player to keep track of every single tiny little ounce (I mean I use spreadsheets so that I can let computers do the work for me), but I do try to expect them to be reasonable… which is why I despise it when players treat bags of holding as not only having infinite capacity but also being able to stretch to any needed size ("I put the dead giant in there!") and being indestructible. It's like you've got this magic item that makes carrying vast quantities of stuff significantly easier… and it's still not good enough!

"But I don't want to do math!"

Here, borrow my graphing calculator—it's served me well for nearly twenty years. I have no intention on rewarding true laziness, not when there's innumerable tools that can be used to give someone at least a rough estimation; but, I also like the minor details like NPC names, calendars, and those mundane items people oft ignore like whet stones, pieces of chalk… and bars of soap. :smalltongue: Really wish PCs bathed more.

[Uncle Pine]

Every group I've played with uses them. Extradimensional space is usually common enough at levels in which you generally start to have a lot of loot to carry.

With that said, off the top of my head encumbrance rules and carrying capacity haven't been much of an issue except for:
- when the party's Warblade (a tailor) decided to make overly pompous and expensive clothes for everyone and they thought they were so cool they'd wear them all the time (royal outfits weigh 15 lb. and the only character with high Str also had a full plate and a heavy shield, so everyone was at least in medium load);
- when another party found a pile of Dwarven stone tablets that were so heavy even their bag of holding could only hold some of them;
- one time that I was playing instead of DMing and the current DM constantly gave us all the treasure in copper pieces. Giant, enormous piles of copper pieces!

Encumbrance rules also make gems and actual treasure (rings, necklaces, golden chess sets, etc.) much more valuable, which is a neat side effect.

[Matrota]

In my campaigns, typically carrying capacity is only referenced when it's necessary. For example, weight and such must be accounted for with the spell telekinesis. When my players move unconscious bodies or pick people up, they have to reference it as well. The only time it's truly necessary is when someone plays a hurler in my opinion. Hurlers love carrying capacity stuff, since they do more damage the heavier things they chuck at the enemies.

[denthor]

So I'm having an argument with my DM about carrying capacity. Him for, me against.

For some context, he, myself, and the other players have been playing together for years. Carrying capacity has been used in our Rise of the Runelords campaign but until then (very recently, I may add) we never really gave it a second thought. It was one of those things that we kind of handwaved as long as it didn't get ridiculous, I.e. a golf bag full of greatswords, four suits of fullplate and fifty flasks of acid. Now he wants to use the rules and I'm not too fond of the idea, really.

My reasoning for such a thing is that tracking weight has always been nothing but an annoyance for me and other people, at least down to the last ounce. There is nothing fun to be gained by tracking the weight of every piece of equipment on your sheet, and totaling the weight of every piece of loot and figuring out who's going to carry it and how you're going to get it out of the dungeon, and quite frankly that is valuable time that could be spent roleplaying or fighting monsters.

My point is, am I alone here? Decisions can't be made in a vacuum and I need to know if anyone else thinks the same way I do. What do you think, playground? Are the weight rules a waste of time?

In the reading of this do you also handwave when you are wearing armor as well?

The scene:
you are in a tent warm night your normal armor is breast plate are you waring this in your sleep even though it can cause problems without the proper feat? do you change into leather jamies? Do you remember this in your a/c calculations if attacked that night camp. Or do you magically have your breast plate on at the start of battle when it takes several rounds to put on.

[Coidzor]

I haven't ever heard of someone who *likes* it or having to keep track of it.

I know many people who find it useful to have an idea of how heavy of a thing a character can lift.

[Ruethgar]

Personally for me, I always like lower op threats which carrying capacity can make more dangerous, "should I bring that extra day's water or rope and a grappling hook." There are so many ways to break the capacity a few levels in though that it shouldn't really be a big deal using it or not.

Carrying capacity and weight was an important consideration for my last build since it used a sandblaster and 5lb per shot adds up quick on a small character and body pouches have a limited weight capacity based on your weight. So he got some lovely Pure Elemental Earth added to his Sculpt Self and more Str than I ever intended him to have initially.

[Stealth Marmot]

It really does depend on how "gritty" you want to make your game. "Gritty" doesn't just have to mean dark, but instead concerned with the realities and problems of being an adventurer.

Let me put it another way, do you track food use? It's sort of the same deal. When you track food use, the world feels a little more dangerous and out to get you since you could die out here if you don't have food. Do you track weather? Again, it helps you feel like the world is an adversary in itself.

Without it, you get convenience which can help focus on the story, but it also loses a feeling of reality. If that's important, then add all of the stuff. If not, discard it or eyeball it.

If you think of the Lord of the Rings movies, they had a lot of oppressive world problems, which was mocked as watching a bunch of guys walking. (See Randall's rant from Clerks 2). On the one hand, some may find it boring. On the other hand, it builds atmosphere.

Also keep something in mind, while a player may not like doing something at the time, they might enjoy having it there and not even know it.

[The Insanity]

How else would I be able to throw mountains at my enemies?

[Segev]

No, I don't think people find the bookkeeping "fun." I know people find hindrances irritating. But it does make Strength a more valuable stat than it is without it, and it also is part of the resource management of the game when played in its "adventurer-archaeologist" form. (i.e. "murderhobo") When you've got to calculate encumbrance including your gear, it makes hauling loot its own challenge. Keep those pack animals alive!

It also increases the value on bags of holding, portable holes, and handy haversacks.

[Efrate]

How else would I be able to throw mountains at my enemies?

That's what shadow craft mage is for.