I would actually hate to be in a D&D world.

[SangoProduction]

Why? Well, for one, no internet! I mean, life would be so boring without having 3 billion+ brains to interact with. Plus, not having internet precludes online gaming, including D&D. It's a lot more fun to pretend to be a wizard than to actually spend several years researching spells and arcana just to get a single first level spell to work.

And then there's the living conditions. I mean, the majority of settings is "medieval world with magic". So, sanitation is sh!t...literally, as sewage systems aren't a thing. And you thought wolves were bad in those times? Well, a tarrasque decided to stop by for a bite, since this isn't a cooperative game, where fun for the group is the goal, but an actual world.

And in a D&D RAWverse, you're only ever able to "learn" pre-made spells, up until level 21, when you get epic spells, which allows for a bit of customization. So innovation in your career as a wizard is basically dead. It'd be like working a 9 to 5 job to progress your spell knowledge. It's even worse if you are in a system where levels spontaneously grant their benefits, instead of being an abstraction of your effort "in the background", so you can never make any progress unless you kill enough things to level up....which might actually not be so bad as long as you can stomach murder. And that's ignoring that, in order to even access your spells that you worked so hard at, you need to spend a full hour every day, "preparing".

Sorcerer and Cleric get off easier....much easier. But, for the sorcerer, unless you're able to choose the spells you get, as the character, then the magic in your blood is deciding what spells you develop. And you know what? My genes are pretty freaking terrible as is. I don't need them also having control over my magic.

And Cleric...whether you say it's the gods or simply their devotion that manifests the power...it'd get really annoying. I don't want to tie myself down to devoting my entire being to a single thing.

Psionics is a cool avenue. But, you've got basically 2 books (first party) of spells to choose from, compared to the 50 quintillion that wizards have, which means you have even fewer choices, and innovation still isn't a thing. But it's less work. Maybe a bit more mentally draining, but less work. And there's still a couple neat tricks you could pull, even with the very restrictive move set.

[Crake]

For the most part I'd agree with you, though the idea that you can only create spells at level 21+ is complete bogus. Anyone can research spells of their own before level 20, it's just incredibly expensive and requires a good research space. In RAW it comes down to the DM's adjudication what the final effects/level of spell are, but in a dnd world, with a presumably impartial DM, you'd be able to research all kinds of spells, and so would everyone else.

Also, I've always imagined a sorcerer as having innate magical powers, but he still gets to decide what he pursues with that power, so he still gets to pick the magic he wants.

Now of course, being a mundane pleb in a dnd world, that would just straight up suck and I'd never want to be a part of that kind of world, but if I had to pick between being an infinitely living magical being, and helping guide the world toward a modern technological civilization where I get to have magic AND the internet... or just living here for a short, mundane life with internet. I think I'd go for the long game and pick the latter :smalltongue:

[icefractal]

For most people, I'd agree it would suck. Better than medieval living conditions perhaps, due to the beneficial effects of magic, but still probably not as good as modern in most ways and 100% more chance of being eaten by some freaky monster, turned into a permanent thrall, cursed, etc.

For the few people at the top, it has some things we can't even match though. Instantly be cured from any disease, up to and including death? Live forever via reincarnation? Experience anything, even impossible things, via illusions? Exceed the normal mental and physical bounds of humanity? There might not the internet, but a crystal ball can provide a lot of interesting things to see.

But if you mean coming in as a low-level Expert (which I think most people IRL would fall under), then hell no, I'd probably be eaten by a troll or something before I even mastered cantrips.

[The_Iron_Lord]

Though I have some issues with staying on task IRL, I doubt I would be so easily distracted from the path to ULTIMATE COSMIC POWER...And, because there would be no DM, not really, one can invent spells of great power; and not only that, but any cheese that actually makes sense in world would likely work(like Wall of Iron==>Lotsa GP and etc). So...Something I've always wanted to try in a real game: A human's eye does not (hopefully) weigh more that 5 pounds...I could use Mage Hand to (no save/SR) rip out someone's eye...Or even if that is considered "attended" there is nothing stopping me from A: Moving a 5-pound object directly through the target's eye, or B: At the very least, one could undetectably poison food/drink this way. :belkar::belkar:

[PacMan2247]

This being the basis of the old D&D cartoon, it's the sort of thing that comes up from time to time in any given group of role players. Once you hit the stage of life where you have dependents, it changes the calculus- do they get left behind, hopefully to be taken care of by friends and family who notice you're missing before anything beyond the inescapable psychological harm is done, or do they get dragged with you into an unfamiliar and unfamiliarly dangerous world? My wife and I have a toddler and a teenager; the toddler would actually be better suited to either of those scenarios, largely because the teenager is entirely dependent on medication to function every day and doesn't handle change well. What once seemed like a dream come true now looks like a frantic quest for a way to get back (which I've also seen as the premise of campaigns for more or less these very reasons).

[Clistenes]

Would I have a friendly DM selecting my challenges for me? Because that makes all the difference between a fast road to quasi-divine power and an early death on a road...

Realistically speaking, it doesn't make sense that a lvl 1 party only meets things like Skeletons or Kobolds or Goblins for months, while an experienced party faces Wyverns an Manticores and Hill Giants every day... In real life random encounters would be really random, so a lvl 1 party would often run into a gang of Hill Giants with their Griffin pets, or into an hungry family of Wyverns.

So, without a friendly DM I would stay at home due to fear, and I would stay a muck farmer or a lowly laborer, or, if I were really, really lucky, a lvl 1 Wizard or Cleric all my life... if that were so, then no, thanks, I don't want to live in a D&D fantasy world...

[Kelb_Panthera]

Why? Well, for one, no internet! I mean, life would be so boring without having 3 billion+ brains to interact with. Plus, not having internet precludes online gaming, including D&D.

Joke noted. :smalltongue:


It's a lot more fun to pretend to be a wizard than to actually spend several years researching spells and arcana just to get a single first level spell to work.

Meh, I've spent years researching how to -pretend- to be magical. Doing the same for real magic isn't even a blip on my radar for hardships.


And then there's the living conditions. I mean, the majority of settings is "medieval world with magic". So, sanitation is sh!t...literally, as sewage systems aren't a thing. And you thought wolves were bad in those times? Well, a tarrasque decided to stop by for a bite, since this isn't a cooperative game, where fun for the group is the goal, but an actual world.

What're you talking about sewers aren't a thing? D&D sewers are more prevalent and larger than the real deal in cities. Adventures placed in them are a tired, old trope and have been for years. Just one more reason not to live rurally, IMO.

Gotta give you the point about the beasties though. The (singular) tarrasque isn't much concern but while RL has a million ways to die, that barely covers the critters that want to eat you/ enslave your mind/ eat your mind in a D&D world. Here's hopin' the local adventurers are decently skilled.


And in a D&D RAWverse, you're only ever able to "learn" pre-made spells, up until level 21, when you get epic spells, which allows for a bit of customization. So innovation in your career as a wizard is basically dead. It'd be like working a 9 to 5 job to progress your spell knowledge. It's even worse if you are in a system where levels spontaneously grant their benefits, instead of being an abstraction of your effort "in the background", so you can never make any progress unless you kill enough things to level up....which might actually not be so bad as long as you can stomach murder. And that's ignoring that, in order to even access your spells that you worked so hard at, you need to spend a full hour every day, "preparing".

It's already been partially pointed out how this is incorrect upthread (spell research rules). I'll point out that Xp gain isn't limited to slaying foes, even in RAW, and that it's just slower with low-risk, low-reward endeavors. Given that XP expenditures are a thing, XP is very much a real and measurable phenomenon.


Sorcerer and Cleric get off easier....much easier. But, for the sorcerer, unless you're able to choose the spells you get, as the character, then the magic in your blood is deciding what spells you develop. And you know what? My genes are pretty freaking terrible as is. I don't need them also having control over my magic.

Given how mutable the forces of magic are in general, I'm not inclined to believe a sorcerer has no control over what spells they learn. Whether the necessary spark of magic is common or not, however, I'm fairly certain my charisma is tanked. Definitely not for me.


And Cleric...whether you say it's the gods or simply their devotion that manifests the power...it'd get really annoying. I don't want to tie myself down to devoting my entire being to a single thing.

Service to the temple in exchange for tremendous, cosmic power. Seems like a fair trade to me. Who do I talk to about joining the temple of Boccob? :smalltongue:


Psionics is a cool avenue. But, you've got basically 2 books (first party) of spells to choose from, compared to the 50 quintillion that wizards have, which means you have even fewer choices, and innovation still isn't a thing. But it's less work. Maybe a bit more mentally draining, but less work. And there's still a couple neat tricks you could pull, even with the very restrictive move set.

I'm not of the impression that psionic development is any easier or more difficult than magical development and it does have advantages over magic that make picking one or the other a very non-trivial decision. Though cerebremancer is a thing, innit? :smallamused:

[Azoth]

There are certainly inconveniences to be noted. Say goodbye to take out, culturally diverse food, or well seasoned food. Fastest transit for most is the good Ole Heel Toe Express, maybe a horse/cart if you are lucky. No television, movies, or social/pop media. Kiss most genres of music goodbye.

No central air conditioning/heating!!!

All in all, we lose alot of life's luxuries we take for granted every day.

A lot of our specialized knowledge/skill sets for our current professions would be useless. Remembering the cover letter for a TPS report won't get you very far in any D&D setting.

It would take a period of adjustment to get over the shock of it all. The trick is surviving until then. Especially, if you are unfortunate enough to get dropped off in the wilderness instead of waking up in a tavern.

[ShurikVch]

Note: it's strongly depends on where and when, exactly, you will appear.
For example, Eberron is not that bad, Sigil will allow you access to almost any part of multiverse, and Greyhawk 2000 is futuristic

[Quertus]

This being the basis of the old D&D cartoon, it's the sort of thing that comes up from time to time in any given group of role players. Once you hit the stage of life where you have dependents, it changes the calculus- do they get left behind, hopefully to be taken care of by friends and family who notice you're missing before anything beyond the inescapable psychological harm is done, or do they get dragged with you into an unfamiliar and unfamiliarly dangerous world? My wife and I have a toddler and a teenager; the toddler would actually be better suited to either of those scenarios, largely because the teenager is entirely dependent on medication to function every day and doesn't handle change well. What once seemed like a dream come true now looks like a frantic quest for a way to get back (which I've also seen as the premise of campaigns for more or less these very reasons).

Time travel is a thing. Should you ever find yourself in this scenario, find Quertus. Although he'll, statistically, probably be a simulacrum, explain your situation, and he will find someone who can get you back to the correct time and place.


There are certainly inconveniences to be noted. Say goodbye to take out, culturally diverse food, or well seasoned food. Fastest transit for most is the good Ole Heel Toe Express, maybe a horse/cart if you are lucky. No television, movies, or social/pop media. Kiss most genres of music goodbye.

No central air conditioning/heating!!!

Even lowly cantrips can deal with taste, and low level spells can purify food and remove disease. But, even if I were to appear in the perfect spot, and be able to power level before lunch time, the lack of central air would be a big issue for me.


Meh, I've spent years researching how to -pretend- to be magical. Doing the same for real magic isn't even a blip on my radar for hardships.


So much this. Although, RAW, if I'm already a level 1 expert, I just need to earn some XP, no research required.


It's already been partially pointed out how this is incorrect upthread (spell research rules). I'll point out that Xp gain isn't limited to slaying foes, even in RAW, and that it's just slower with low-risk, low-reward endeavors. Given that XP expenditures are a thing, XP is very much a real and measurable phenomenon.

I'm pleasantly surprised that people - plural - have already pointed out that spell research is a thing. :biggrin:


Why? Well, for one, no internet! I mean, life would be so boring without having 3 billion+ brains to interact with. Plus, not having internet precludes online gaming, including D&D. It's a lot more fun to pretend to be a wizard than to actually spend several years researching spells and arcana just to get a single first level spell to work.

And then there's the living conditions. I mean, the majority of settings is "medieval world with magic". So, sanitation is sh!t...literally, as sewage systems aren't a thing. And you thought wolves were bad in those times? Well, a tarrasque decided to stop by for a bite, since this isn't a cooperative game, where fun for the group is the goal, but an actual world.

And in a D&D RAWverse, you're only ever able to "learn" pre-made spells, up until level 21, when you get epic spells, which allows for a bit of customization. So innovation in your career as a wizard is basically dead. It'd be like working a 9 to 5 job to progress your spell knowledge. It's even worse if you are in a system where levels spontaneously grant their benefits, instead of being an abstraction of your effort "in the background", so you can never make any progress unless you kill enough things to level up....which might actually not be so bad as long as you can stomach murder. And that's ignoring that, in order to even access your spells that you worked so hard at, you need to spend a full hour every day, "preparing".

Sorcerer and Cleric get off easier....much easier. But, for the sorcerer, unless you're able to choose the spells you get, as the character, then the magic in your blood is deciding what spells you develop. And you know what? My genes are pretty freaking terrible as is. I don't need them also having control over my magic.

And Cleric...whether you say it's the gods or simply their devotion that manifests the power...it'd get really annoying. I don't want to tie myself down to devoting my entire being to a single thing.

Psionics is a cool avenue. But, you've got basically 2 books (first party) of spells to choose from, compared to the 50 quintillion that wizards have, which means you have even fewer choices, and innovation still isn't a thing. But it's less work. Maybe a bit more mentally draining, but less work. And there's still a couple neat tricks you could pull, even with the very restrictive move set.

Yes, there would be a lot of changes to adapt to. Yes, some of it would be terrible. Yes, the bad aspects often get downplayed. But, for me, the benefits would definitely outweigh the drawbacks. If I lived.

My characters don't assume a cooperative, CR-appropriate game - they assume a world. I'm accustomed to thinking of D&D that way, so that wouldn't be a big change.

I don't have to kill - although, happily, I no longer have a moral compunction against murder - I just have to "defeat" my opponents to earn XP. Subdual damage being the most obvious but not the only way to defeat them.

And innovation? Really? My signature character, for whom this account is named, has made extensive use of custom spell creation rules. Heck, based on your statements, he knows more spells to sense / detect than any of your pre-epic characters have spells.

I don't know if anyone uses the math theorem I invented when I was in high school. No-one can tell if they use any of my innovative code. I would love to have my innovations be as useful as Quertus' Spell Star. Innovation is a reason to sign me up for living in D&D.

[WhatThePhysics]

Why? Well, for one, no internet! I mean, life would be so boring without having 3 billion+ brains to interact with. Plus, not having internet precludes online gaming, including D&D. It's a lot more fun to pretend to be a wizard than to actually spend several years researching spells and arcana just to get a single first level spell to work.

You could invent the internet.


And then there's the living conditions. I mean, the majority of settings is "medieval world with magic". So, sanitation is sh!t...literally, as sewage systems aren't a thing. And you thought wolves were bad in those times? Well, a tarrasque decided to stop by for a bite, since this isn't a cooperative game, where fun for the group is the goal, but an actual world.

Purify Food and Drink can instantly clean sewage water. Soap and sewers also exist. A locale that doesn't have walls to protect against wolves has bigger threats to worry about. Also, you could permanently imprison the Tarrasque with repeated castings of Transmute Rock to Mud and Transmute Mud to Rock.


And in a D&D RAWverse, you're only ever able to "learn" pre-made spells, up until level 21, when you get epic spells, which allows for a bit of customization. So innovation in your career as a wizard is basically dead. It'd be like working a 9 to 5 job to progress your spell knowledge. It's even worse if you are in a system where levels spontaneously grant their benefits, instead of being an abstraction of your effort "in the background", so you can never make any progress unless you kill enough things to level up....which might actually not be so bad as long as you can stomach murder. And that's ignoring that, in order to even access your spells that you worked so hard at, you need to spend a full hour every day, "preparing".

RAW allows Wizards to create new spells at pre-epic levels. You can also gain experience by defeating or bypassing threats, so murder is unnecessary. You could create continuous or use-activated items to access spells all day.


And Cleric...whether you say it's the gods or simply their devotion that manifests the power...it'd get really annoying. I don't want to tie myself down to devoting my entire being to a single thing.

You could devote yourself to the universe.

[lord_khaine]

The main problem is that picking up your first character level in most cases takes a lot of years of hard study. There is a reason for why so few people have character levels in most d&d worlds.
We dont have any guaranti for the ability, chance or aptitude required to gain any sort of caster class.

And as someone already mentioned, being a level 1-2 expert would suck in a world where your litteral soul is in danger of being gobbled up or sold by the lucky 1% in charge.

[Darth Ultron]

Why?

The shock of going from the 21st style of living to 13th century style of living is huge. But it does depend on your 21st century life style a bit. If your a younger die hard urban person...well you won't like it. However a older more county rural person won't mind so much. The internet is nice, but I did live half of my life with out it already, so the loss would not be so big. I grow, hunt and catch my own food..though not 100% of course. And so on.

And it does depend on ''what'' you'd ''be'' in a D&D world. Being a dung sweeper in Waterdeep would suck.....but being an archmage in Zhentil Keep would be awesome.

[SirNibbles]

Life in a D&D world would be hard and more dangerous but it also offers much greater opportunity for advancement.

I doubt I'd ever be able to rule a small country in this world. In D&D, I may level up enough, gain enough power and support, and be able to do just that.

[Mechalich]

Life as a level 1 commoner, expert, or even aristocrat is significantly less pleasant, luxurious, and safe compared to the life of pretty much any person who manages to stay above the poverty line in a 21st century western state.

Life as an adventurer has the potential to be better, if and only if you can level up to the point where you can share in the glories of the multiverse/make your own demiplane/build a magical pleasure palace/etc. such that you can both emulate the capabilities of 21st life and exceed them alongside immortality. However, that's only a potential. The majority of adventures do not survive the quest for phenomenal cosmic power, they just get permakilled at some point in their career (raise dead comes online at level 9, assume that if you die prior to that point you're gone for good since nobody's going to bother to res you). Figure the chances of achieving phenomenal cosmic power - which basically implies even being able to take a spellcasting class - is at best 0.1%. So how big a gamble do you want to take?

Of course, it should be considered that in a strict D&D world, the afterlife is a certainty and while that isn't exactly immortality, and it's not necessarily guaranteed to take the form you want, knowing that when you die you'll continue on for some period many times your mortal lifespan in length is potentially worth a lot. How does one measure the value of 10,000 years as a petitioner versus the uncertainty of forum-prohibited real-world alternatives? Maybe that swings the odds of the gamble the other way.

[Bohandas]

Better than medieval living conditions perhaps, due to the beneficial effects of magic

But that's canceled out by all the trolls and demons and stuff wandering about

[WhatThePhysics]

But that's canceled out by all the trolls and demons and stuff wandering about

But that's cancelled out by the infinite amount of meat that you can harvest from just one troll. Cold iron also bypasses plenty of demons' damage reduction, and is a very cheap special material.

[Crake]

But that's canceled out by all the trolls and demons and stuff wandering about

Lets be honest, trolls and demons do not exist anywhere near in the prevelance as people assume. Remember, most often adventurers go LOOKING for trouble, so of course they're likely to encounter it a disproportionate amount, but most people will likely never see anything of the sort in their lifetime.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Lets be honest, trolls and demons do not exist anywhere near in the prevelance as people assume. Remember, most often adventurers go LOOKING for trouble, so of course they're likely to encounter it a disproportionate amount, but most people will likely never see anything of the sort in their lifetime.

Devils on the other hand...

[WhatThePhysics]

Devils on the other hand...

Except many devils have damage reduction that's bypassed by alchemical silver weapons, which are relatively cheap. Silver shouldn't be that hard to come by, as silver pieces are about the size of US quarters, and the primary currency used to pay hirelings by the day.

[Manyasone]

Meh, it's a choice. If you were dropped into a fantasy world you can choose to a life of drudgery or you can choose to be something different.
If you know that with some proper training you could be competent, and if you're smart about it, you have possibilities.
Just like in this world you could join the army or police, you could join the city watch or local military in a fantasy world.
If you're more scholarly, join a library or a church.
Even if you're an expert, nothing is stopping you to become something else. Most of us have certain skills, you just need to reapply them...
If you're a real world mathematician for instance you wouldn't have much difficulty becoming a wizard, i believe.
If you choose to do none of those things, well, don't whine about it. Fantasy or otherwise

[Kelb_Panthera]

Except many devils have damage reduction that's bypassed by alchemical silver weapons, which are relatively cheap. Silver shouldn't be that hard to come by, as silver pieces are about the size of US quarters, and the primary currency used to pay hirelings by the day.

Fighting them isn't really the concern and unless I actually do turn out to have some magical talent, I'm gonna need my silver to stay as currency for the most part.

[SimonMoon6]

Benefits:

You could instantly know what is right and what is wrong, who is good and who is evil. No moral quandaries, no grey areas. Cast "Detect Evil" on the current ruler and find out if it's morally acceptable to assassinate him.

You know that there is an afterlife and, as long as you're not Eeeeevil, you will have a happily ever after.

As long as you're not a commoner, you can go from "nobody with minimal training" to "near demi-god" in only about a year's time. Then, as long as you're on that path, you will never have to worry about dying (before dying of old age anyway and even then, you can reincarnate). Likewise (though of lesser import), you will never lose your keys (or the remote). Just cast Locate Object.

Then, after that year's worth of intense activity, anything you want, you can wish for. Don't have the Internet? Wish for it!

[SimonMoon6]

The main problem is that picking up your first character level in most cases takes a lot of years of hard study. There is a reason for why so few people have character levels in most d&d worlds.

In 3.x, everyone has to have at least one level. It might be something stupid like "commoner" but there's no such thing as a 0-level human in 3.x D&D.

And then, going from 1st level to 2nd level, you can take any class you want, even wizard. Even if you never opened a book up until now. And going from 1st level to 2nd level is remarkably easy (if you don't die) and quick.

[Azoth]

On the thought process of leveling up, that would hurt alot. I don't think too many people would be willing to keep at it really. Think to any of your characters that has level up even a handful of times. Try to keep count of how many times they were cut, stabbed, bludgeoned, burned, shocked, shot, chewed on, dropped into pits/holes, or worse. Most people just don't have the mentality and mental fortitude for adventuring even if they want cosmic altering power.

I have seen many aspiring Karateka and Nak Muay quit after a few sparing sessions or when doing conditioning training. People say they want to be good at something and that they are committed until the pain starts. Even just kicking a heavy bag bare shin is enough to drive people away.

[Coidzor]

On the thought process of leveling up, that would hurt alot. I don't think too many people would be willing to keep at it really. Think to any of your characters that has level up even a handful of times. Try to keep count of how many times they were cut, stabbed, bludgeoned, burned, shocked, shot, chewed on, dropped into pits/holes, or worse. Most people just don't have the mentality and mental fortitude for adventuring even if they want cosmic altering power.

I have seen many aspiring Karateka and Nak Muay quit after a few sparing sessions or when doing conditioning training. People say they want to be good at something and that they are committed until the pain starts. Even just kicking a heavy bag bare shin is enough to drive people away.

This isn't just about getting good at a martial art for fun. Not even the same ball park.

We're talking gaining the basic ability to survive if a housecat decides it's sick of what passes for cat food. We're talking being able to substantially improve one's lot in life and comfort level by being clever or braving danger or just fighting a lot. We're talking attaining phenomenal cosmic power and immortality, and not as a pipe dream but as a real, known, expected outcome.

Hell, for some of us, we're talking the ability to go home after being shanghaied in another reality when the minimum level to even really *try* to go back is on the doorstep of double digits.

We're also talking a reality where a mortal wound can be fixed and anyone can recover from even the most grievous of injuries from bed rest, so long as they don't somehow get a limb or the like chopped off, and in an existence where the ability to do so is fairly rare unless completely at the mercy of something else.

[Pugwampy]

Most people just don't have the mentality and mental fortitude for adventuring even if they want cosmic altering power.

I have seen many aspiring Karateka and Nak Muay quit after a few sparing sessions or when doing conditioning training. People say they want to be good at something and that they are committed until the pain starts.


I disagree . The comfort of knowing everything and anything bad happening to you in La la land can be fixed within an hour at your local friendly temple or even a party member probably pushes your mental fortitude far beyond that of a mere mortal stuck in real life land . You cannot label it risking life and limb if you can get them so easily replaced .

I was an aspiring karateka and I quit 9 months after I got a black belt . I dont regret choosing my health over medals
The best of the best all suffered from some sort of permanent damage . The all star in our club needed to bandage his one foot or it would swell with blood because of an old broken ankle . It was not uncommon for him to be limping at the end of all his matches but he won .
My sensei had this one toe curled almost 180 degrees into his foot . This one old man could not block without his forearms exploding into blood .
One girl with a shelf full of tournament gold medals could not pass her Black Belt physical due to old "war" wounds. This was a mere semi contact club believe it or not .

Thanks but no thanks .

[Azoth]

The same principle applies. Once the going gets tough, most people give up. After the first near death experience, or seemingly incomprehensible arcane formulae, or not having prayers answered, 99% of people are going to pack it up.

It takes a truly determined and stubborn individual to progress further in spite of severe adversity. Everyone thinks they are that type, when most simply aren't.

Someone could offer people 1 trillion dollars to successfully lay out Anderson Sylva with as many attempts as they want. Pretty much all non professional fighters, or long term martial arts practicioners, are going to never take a second shot at it...if they even take the first.

[Coidzor]

The same principle applies. Once the going gets tough, most people give up. After the first near death experience, or seemingly incomprehensible arcane formulae, or not having prayers answered, 99% of people are going to pack it up.

It takes a truly determined and stubborn individual to progress further in spite of severe adversity. Everyone thinks they are that type, when most simply aren't.

Someone could offer people 1 trillion dollars to successfully lay out Anderson Sylva with as many attempts as they want. Pretty much all non professional fighters, or long term martial arts practicioners, are going to never take a second shot at it...if they even take the first.

In the real world, people have hard caps on their capabilities and skill levels. Most of us can only become moderately good fighters, even with dedicated time and training. And, as said, even fights we win can have permanent consequences for us.

Going by D&D rules, one could go from a couch potato to being able to fight and beat every single competent fighter in the world in hand to hand combat in less time than it takes to become a competent fighter in our reality, even just getting reduced XP for non-lethal sparring. Even with sub-optimal physical ability scores to start with and ignoring Tome of Battle or Path of War or Gishing. Any damage we'd take along the way that didn't kill us would be purely cosmetic.

[Pugwampy]

Assuming I had the choice to cherry pick my race , gender and profession , sure I would choose DND world over the planet DIRT anyday .


:smallbiggrin:..... Queen of the Fairies ....:smallbiggrin:

[Azoth]

Yes, but it still hurts. Pain is a thing, and a built in measure of deterence in a course of action. We are hard wired to stop doing things that hurt. It doesn't matter that you know Ted will patch you right back up, you aren't going to keep doing the thing that put you in that situation most of the time.

I understand that the lasting injuries we have here on earth aren't a thing in D&D. Trust me my ruptured disks, slipped disks, damaged rotary cuffs, and now almost muscleless knee joints would have much rather gotten my training in D&D land than Earth.

[Coidzor]

Pain hurts, sure.

But how much pain actually hurts in an HP system has been a debate for, I dunno, the past 40 years, give or take.

Further, an awareness of the stakes and what the stakes actually are makes a huge difference, which you can't dismiss with such simple logic as lowering men to the level of pavlovian beasts.

[Azoth]

Pain hurts, sure.

But how much pain actually hurts in an HP system has been a debate for, I dunno, the past 40 years, give or take.

Further, an awareness of the stakes and what the stakes actually are makes a huge difference, which you can't dismiss with such simple logic as lowering men to the level of pavlovian beasts.

I can agree that with an HP system we don't know how pain transfers over from our reality. The stimulus may be less or even different in nature.

Just as I can not call all humans Pavlovian Beasts, you can not assert that every person will suddenly find the grit to push through combat and adventuring to level. It is a variable for each individual that can not be realized until they are put in such situations. History has shown though that pain, stress, fear, and injury are all things that make people quit a pursuit regardless of starting determination or end game reward.

[WhatThePhysics]

Pain hurts, but that's what a continuous item of Ease Pain is for.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Benefits:

You could instantly know what is right and what is wrong, who is good and who is evil. No moral quandaries, no grey areas. Cast "Detect Evil" on the current ruler and find out if it's morally acceptable to assassinate him.

You know that there is an afterlife and, as long as you're not Eeeeevil, you will have a happily ever after.

I get why people think this but it's just not accurate, at all. The alignment detection spells are -not- common and simply detecting evil does not justify smiting. Even the certainty of an afterlife has to be tempered by the fact you become a lowly petitioner unless you -really- distinguish yourself from the common rabble.

Hell, you only know there is an afterlife as a result of being privileged with the information before being transported to D&D world. The common folk within have no more solid proof than we do of an afterlife in reality except for the odd mid-level cleric that's actually cast planeshift before. Even he can't be absolutely certain unless he meets a dead guy he knows.


As long as you're not a commoner, you can go from "nobody with minimal training" to "near demi-god" in only about a year's time. Then, as long as you're on that path, you will never have to worry about dying (before dying of old age anyway and even then, you can reincarnate). Likewise (though of lesser import), you will never lose your keys (or the remote). Just cast Locate Object.

If you have the talent and are -really- good with math. It's also more like a season in "ideal" conditions.


Then, after that year's worth of intense activity, anything you want, you can wish for. Don't have the Internet? Wish for it!

Wish has pretty sharp limits. Wishing for the internet to be a thing will almost certainly fail.

[SimonMoon6]

Yes, but it still hurts. Pain is a thing, and a built in measure of deterence in a course of action. We are hard wired to stop doing things that hurt.

But consider that in D&D, taking damage has no connection to pain. When a character takes damage, they are in no way hampered (until they get to 0 hp). They can continue to do backflips and cartwheels even after having gone from 100 hp down to 1 hp, without any penalties to their die rolls when performing any task, mental or physical. We know how pain affects a character in D&D as seen in spells like Symbol of Pain. None of those effects happen when a D&D character takes damage. So I would submit that taking damage does not inflict pain, at least until you get to 0 hp.

[SangoProduction]

(I'm not siding with anyone, but I wanted to throw this out there to spark another, tangential, train of thought.)

I will note something. Shell Shock, or PTSD. Most people, especially nowadays in a time where you're raised from the outset to know "hey, killing's bad kids," actually can't handle killing another person. Not even after spending years of programming in a rather brutal regime to make killing almost automatic.

It might be easier if the things you are killing aren't too human-like. However, killing's not the only thing that can inflict that. Near-death experiences are well known for that. But even things that aren't particularly "life-threatening" can do that, like a dog attack or even rape. (Just as examples for when someone says "but I can heal it, so why would I be affected?")

The Calm Emotions spell would probably assuage any long term mental injuries. If you get lucky and chronic conditions (such as those implied by the age penalties) count as "disease", then you'd never need to worry about it so long as there's a semi-decent supply of clerics, even at a low level. If you don't mind a high level telepath messing with your brain, then you could get a bit of psychic surgery. I don't think there's any other way, because chronic conditions such as PTSD (or even missing an arm) aren't represented in the rules.

So maybe you won't actually get those conditions, since they aren't in the rules? Of course, there are also no rules for enjoying the comforts of life. So how far you want to go down that rabbit hole is up to you.

[Coidzor]

But consider that in D&D, taking damage has no connection to pain. When a character takes damage, they are in no way hampered (until they get to 0 hp). They can continue to do backflips and cartwheels even after having gone from 100 hp down to 1 hp, without any penalties to their die rolls when performing any task, mental or physical. We know how pain affects a character in D&D as seen in spells like Symbol of Pain. None of those effects happen when a D&D character takes damage. So I would submit that taking damage does not inflict pain, at least until you get to 0 hp.

I'm more inclined to say that unless weaponized by a spell or special ability, pain is purely cosmetic, meaning it only truly influences NPCs during "roleplaying" or "narrative" events or PCs who choose to buy into such roleplaying events.

Which naturally means that it's a big ??? for our purposes, since we have no idea if we'd become PCs or NPCs.

Pretty much screwed as an NPC, though, since even if you do have the ability to level up somehow or another and aren't stuck as a nameless coolie, you'll forever lack the ambition to make a real impact unless you're actually the antagonist in an adventure.

Edit: Well, I suppose there's also incidences of DM Fiat, but that's its own can of worms.

[Psyren]

But consider that in D&D, taking damage has no connection to pain. When a character takes damage, they are in no way hampered (until they get to 0 hp). They can continue to do backflips and cartwheels even after having gone from 100 hp down to 1 hp, without any penalties to their die rolls when performing any task, mental or physical. We know how pain affects a character in D&D as seen in spells like Symbol of Pain. None of those effects happen when a D&D character takes damage. So I would submit that taking damage does not inflict pain, at least until you get to 0 hp.

Counterpoint: you'd be surprised at the kind of moving you can do, even while in pain, when someone is trying to chop your head off. Simply put, combat means adrenaline, and adrenaline helps you ignore pain.

[Calthropstu]

You could invent the internet.


I just did.

Welcome to magicNet: The internet for the D&D universe!

Using a series of crystal balls, you can store illusion spells to trigger. Using a form of permanent reactive illusion, you could (or those you allow could) alter the content of the illusion. You then set it up so that new illusions, into infinity, can be created with simple commands set into the crystal. You then have access crystals that people can log into, and behold people can now access, create and modify programmed illusion. With a simple system of identification for each illusion, similar to a url, you essentially can set up illusions as internet pages accessed via crystal balls.

[SimonMoon6]

Counterpoint: you'd be surprised at the kind of moving you can do, even while in pain, when someone is trying to chop your head off. Simply put, combat means adrenaline, and adrenaline helps you ignore pain.

But consider after adrenaline's effects should be over....

Suppose the fight's over. You've gone from 100 hp to 1 hp... and you're fine. You can move fine. You can do all the cartwheels you want. You have no penalty to jumping or acrobatics or concentration or movement or anything. There are no side effects from having been injured. And I have been injured (not in combat). I know pain. And I know how sometimes you can't just can't do stuff when you're feeling intense pain.

But in D&D, you have no pain. There's not a single part of your body that is causing you pain. And that's because no part of your body has been injured. You might have lost these nebulous "hit point" things, but those are a mixture of luck and skill and stuff like that. Losing luck and skill doesn't hurt you at all.

[Quertus]

I understand that the lasting injuries we have here on earth aren't a thing in D&D. Trust me my ruptured disks, slipped disks, damaged rotary cuffs, and now almost muscleless knee joints would have much rather gotten my training in D&D land than Earth.

And, even if they were a thing, there are - or we could invent - spells to deal with them.


(I'm not siding with anyone, but I wanted to throw this out there to spark another, tangential, train of thought.)

I will note something. Shell Shock, or PTSD. Most people, especially nowadays in a time where you're raised from the outset to know "hey, killing's bad kids," actually can't handle killing another person. Not even after spending years of programming in a rather brutal regime to make killing almost automatic.

It might be easier if the things you are killing aren't too human-like. However, killing's not the only thing that can inflict that. Near-death experiences are well known for that. But even things that aren't particularly "life-threatening" can do that, like a dog attack or even rape. (Just as examples for when someone says "but I can heal it, so why would I be affected?")

The Calm Emotions spell would probably assuage any long term mental injuries. If you get lucky and chronic conditions (such as those implied by the age penalties) count as "disease", then you'd never need to worry about it so long as there's a semi-decent supply of clerics, even at a low level. If you don't mind a high level telepath messing with your brain, then you could get a bit of psychic surgery. I don't think there's any other way, because chronic conditions such as PTSD (or even missing an arm) aren't represented in the rules.

So maybe you won't actually get those conditions, since they aren't in the rules? Of course, there are also no rules for enjoying the comforts of life. So how far you want to go down that rabbit hole is up to you.

Permanent psychological damage... is a much larger concern than "pain" or "time", at least for me.

[Psyren]

But consider after adrenaline's effects should be over....

Suppose the fight's over. You've gone from 100 hp to 1 hp... and you're fine. You can move fine. You can do all the cartwheels you want. You have no penalty to jumping or acrobatics or concentration or movement or anything. There are no side effects from having been injured. And I have been injured (not in combat). I know pain. And I know how sometimes you can't just can't do stuff when you're feeling intense pain.

But in D&D, you have no pain. There's not a single part of your body that is causing you pain. And that's because no part of your body has been injured. You might have lost these nebulous "hit point" things, but those are a mixture of luck and skill and stuff like that. Losing luck and skill doesn't hurt you at all.

Indeed - at some point the needs of a game (allowing a party that had some unlucky rolls and took early damage to make a stunning comeback, rather than kicking them repeatedly while they're down as they fall further and further behind) outweigh the more pedestrian concerns of "realism."

If you do want to patch in this kind of pain effect from damage for a grittier campaign, there are variant systems to help you, like Pathfinder's Wound Thresholds (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/unchained-rules/wound-thresholds-optional-rules) variant (and the "Gritty" variant of that variant at the bottom of the page.) Even if you did however, I would consider also including a variant like Hero Points (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/hero-points) that represents the character's ability to rise above their injuries and prevent this kind of death-spiral.

[Coidzor]

Permanent psychological damage... is a much larger concern than "pain" or "time", at least for me.

On the other hand, you only really hear about Mad Wizards, not really Mad Fighters or Knights or what have you.

So, if anything, if you're a caster you have more to worry from doing your job of interacting with things magical and possibly eldritch than from fighting itself, as far as sanity goes.

Of course, translating one of our minds into a character's shell would be another one of those big gray areas of ???.

[WhatThePhysics]

I don't think there's any other way, because chronic conditions such as PTSD (or even missing an arm) aren't represented in the rules.

From the Sanity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/sanity.htm) section of the System Reference Document:

"Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder
After a traumatic event, perhaps even years later, the character begins to relive the trauma through persistent thoughts, dreams, and flashbacks. Correspondingly, the character loses interest in daily activities. She may return to normal once the memories have been thoroughly explored and understood, but that process may take years."


I just did.

Welcome to magicNet: The internet for the D&D universe!

Using a series of crystal balls, you can store illusion spells to trigger. Using a form of permanent reactive illusion, you could (or those you allow could) alter the content of the illusion. You then set it up so that new illusions, into infinity, can be created with simple commands set into the crystal. You then have access crystals that people can log into, and behold people can now access, create and modify programmed illusion. With a simple system of identification for each illusion, similar to a url, you essentially can set up illusions as internet pages accessed via crystal balls.

Here's an alternative:

Get a member of the species turritopsis dohrnii. We'll call them Frank, for the sake of memorization. Make many drawings and paintings of Frank, regularly bottle the water from their tank, and take clippings of their body. Be sure to heal them when you take clippings, because it's very important that they indefinitely stay alive. Distribute the images and clippings of Frank everywhere, along with their water. This will give them a Will save modifier range of +5 to -21 against Scrying.

Build a bunch of continuous and use-activated items of Arcane Mark, Detect Scrying, Erase, Mage Hand, Sculpt Sound, Scrying, Sending, and Silent Image. Use Arcane Mark and Erase to label the items and maintain a directory. When you want to access the network, cast Scrying on Frank, and a nearby employee with a continuous item of Detect Scrying will tell you to cast Sending. In your Sending, specify what you want to access, and they will use Mage Hand to conveniently activate the appropriate items of Sculpt Sound and Silent Image.

[ben-zayb]

Meh. There are parts of the world that have varying levels of worse sanitation than what they have back in medieval Europe <I'm not actually sure what you're reference location here is. Is it Europe?>

And I'm not sure how old people are in this forum, but I can tell you that there's A LOT--A LOT--of not-boring things that you can do without the internet.

[vasilidor]

I get why people think this but it's just not accurate, at all. The alignment detection spells are -not- common and simply detecting evil does not justify smiting. Even the certainty of an afterlife has to be tempered by the fact you become a lowly petitioner unless you -really- distinguish yourself from the common rabble.

.
depends on the campaign. I have been in one where the only way to detect as evil is to have done evil. like murder in cold blood just because you could.

[Bohandas]

I get why people think this but it's just not accurate, at all. The alignment detection spells are -not- common and simply detecting evil does not justify smiting.

They're common as far as magic spells go, being first level clerical magic.


Even the certainty of an afterlife has to be tempered by the fact you become a lowly petitioner unless you -really- distinguish yourself from the common rabble.

You have it backwards, the petitioners are mightier than the run-of-the-mill commoner, it's the distinguished that lose out by becoming one

[Kelb_Panthera]

They're common as far as magic spells go, being first level clerical magic.

They're on two common caster lists (cleric and adept) a couple of variant lists for common casters (savage bard and urban ranger) and otherwise appear only on PrC lists. As opposed to, say, detect magic which appears on nearly every base-class list. Adepts make up approximately 0.5% of the population and all the other casters are -less- common. Any spell is a fairly uncommon thing, much less ones that're rarely on a list.

Then consider that spellcasters are people with their own motivations and are perfectly capable (in some cases, mandated by their gods) to lie to you and it becomes quickly apparent that you can't -know- if somebody else is good/evil unless you can cast the spell yourself. Reasonably believe? Maybe. Know? No.


You have it backwards, the petitioners are mightier than the run-of-the-mill commoner, it's the distinguished that lose out by becoming one

They are. Do you think -you- will make it further than the average commoner? I'd like to think so. And that makes becoming a petitioner a step down. The average commoner does get a step up but he -cannot- know that. He may -believe- it but short of going to, say, Elysium and bumping into grand-dad, he's simply not going to have seen or even had the opportunity to have seen conclusive evidence.

Also consider that the sources of information he has on the matter are, necessarily, conflicting. A cleric (or adept) of Hextor is certainly going to be telling very different tales about the after-life than one dedicated to Olidamara and it's unlikely that either will stick strictly to the facts or the whole truth (if any part of it at all). Sure, a Servant of Cuthbert might stick -mostly- to the truth and direct facts but what reason does commoner Joe have to believe him over any of his rivals outside of it being the most prominent/powerful church in his area?

We are in a position of privileged information because we have the unadulterated rules and lore printed in the books. People within the world those books describe do -not- have access to the whole of that information, perhaps even collectively nevermind individually or in small groups.

[Âmesang]

No central air conditioning/heating!!!

Unhallow
Evocation [Evil]
Level: Clr 5, Drd 5

Unhallow makes a particular site, building, or structure an unholy site. This has three major effects.

…

Finally, you may choose to fix a single spell effect to the unhallowed site. The spell effect lasts for one year and functions throughout the entire site, regardless of its normal duration and area or effect. You may designate whether the effect applies to all creatures, creatures that share your faith or alignment, or creatures that adhere to another faith or alignment. At the end of the year, the chosen effect lapses, but it can be renewed or replaced simply by casting unhallow again.

Spell effects that may be tied to an unhallowed site include aid, bane, bless, cause fear, darkness, daylight, death ward, deeper darkness, detect magic, detect good, dimensional anchor, discern lies, dispel magic, endure elements, freedom of movement, invisibility purge, protection from energy, remove fear, resist energy, silence, tongues, and zone of truth.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CasGB8GahZw&t=42s

[lord_khaine]

Thats unfortunately a level 5 spells. Learned at the point where a cleric is already almost like a god compared to his level 1-3 commoner brethren.

Edit.
And the odds of surviving that long is minimal without PC plot armor.
I mean, looking at the Town generation system in the DMG then ½ falls off from each level. So for every level 2 cleric there is 2 level ones. Or 128 level one clerics for each level 9 cleric.

And thats still better odds than what you statistically get for trying to get xp the fast way, though enconters. Assuming a 50/50 chance of surving a level 1 encounter, and needing 4 of them to level then its already 15/16 chance of dying before hitting level 2. And the odds turn astronomical of reaching level 3 or 4.

[Coidzor]

And the odds of surviving that long is minimal without PC plot armor.

Assuming a 50/50 chance of surving a level 1 encounter

Are they, though? Has anyone gone through and calculated the chance based off of random encounter tables?

Why are you making that a core assumption?

[Xanyo]

If I can survive to level 2, I can obtain absolute immortality, and even at level 1 I can cut down my chances of dying in a CR 1 encounter to practically 0, so I would definitely want in the D&D world. And then becoming an Erudite with Convert Spell to Power, so that I can have access to just about every power I am capable of casting, and every spell one level lower(even divine spells because of Wyrm Wizard's Spell Knowledge ability), hopefully offsetting the XP loss with a Thought Bottle. When you have access to every spell, you can get even more comforts than modern day. And if nothing else, once I can cast spells that grant flight, I no longer have to support myself on these pathetic legs!

[Tainted_Scholar]

It all depends on the setting, living in the Tippyverse would be pretty sweet.

[lord_khaine]

Are they, though? Has anyone gone through and calculated the chance based off of random encounter tables?

Why are you making that a core assumption?

Im making that a core assumption mainly because its easier. And also because 1 CR 1 fight for 1 PC suposedly should be an even fight.
After all another level 1 PC is also CR 1. Actually i find it a relatively fair assumption, since it does not take into account the chance of running into something wastly above your own CR.


If I can survive to level 2, I can obtain absolute immortality, and even at level 1 I can cut down my chances of dying in a CR 1 encounter to practically 0, so I would definitely want in the D&D world. And then becoming an Erudite with Convert Spell to Power, so that I can have access to just about every power I am capable of casting, and every spell one level lower(even divine spells because of Wyrm Wizard's Spell Knowledge ability), hopefully offsetting the XP loss with a Thought Bottle. When you have access to every spell, you can get even more comforts than modern day. And if nothing else, once I can cast spells that grant flight, I no longer have to support myself on these pathetic legs!

I will just ask, is it still a CR 1 encounter if it has 0% of winning? Is there anything you can do there that cant be done just as well by a NPC you might run across? Or done better by a level 2-20 encounter you are in the risk of comming across, due to not having PC plot armor?

[Coidzor]

It all depends on the setting, living in the Tippyverse would be pretty sweet.

Depends on where you end up and what flavor of Tippyverse and if you attract Mindrape attention from your overlords. Living in No Man's Land between the cities if they're at war or in a cold war isn't that fun, since while you're beneath the notice of the cities, you're also not under the protection of any entity worth spit.

[Tainted_Scholar]

Depends on where you end up and what flavor of Tippyverse and if you attract Mindrape attention from your overlords. Living in No Man's Land between the cities if they're at war or in a cold war isn't that fun, since while you're beneath the notice of the cities, you're also not under the protection of any entity worth spit.

To @#&% with it, I'm living in Celestia.

[Xanyo]

I will just ask, is it still a CR 1 encounter if it has 0% of winning? Is there anything you can do there that cant be done just as well by a NPC you might run across? Or done better by a level 2-20 encounter you are in the risk of comming across, due to not having PC plot armor?

I can punch things quite effectively, and I can't be killed in the conventional manner. And it doesn't have a 0% chance of defeating me, only a (practically) 0% chance of killing me. There is a distinction that must be made. In case you can't tell, I powergame, and in a case such as this, I would do so ruthlessly. At low levels my offensive capabilities will be somewhat lacking, but nothing near my CR will be able to kill me.

[WhatThePhysics]

Thats unfortunately a level 5 spells. Learned at the point where a cleric is already almost like a god compared to his level 1-3 commoner brethren.

Edit.
And the odds of surviving that long is minimal without PC plot armor.
I mean, looking at the Town generation system in the DMG then ½ falls off from each level. So for every level 2 cleric there is 2 level ones. Or 128 level one clerics for each level 9 cleric.

And thats still better odds than what you statistically get for trying to get xp the fast way, though enconters. Assuming a 50/50 chance of surving a level 1 encounter, and needing 4 of them to level then its already 15/16 chance of dying before hitting level 2. And the odds turn astronomical of reaching level 3 or 4.

Endure Elements is personal air conditioning, and automatically resetting traps of it could accommodate a small community. But, maybe you find traps too cheesy, and prefer continuous or use activated items? In that case:

Create Water, a tall tower, and aqueducts with waterfalls can absorb solar microwaves for large areas. With sufficient engineering, Energy Ray (Cold) or Ray of Frost can make heat sinks that cause drafts. If you just want a breeze, power fans with weights moved by Control Object or Unseen Servant. Meanwhile, Energy Ray (Fire) or Matter Agitation can provide warmth on demand, and Control Flames can indefinitely keep fires going without fuel.

All of these are available to 1st level characters, which keeps wondrous/universal item prices in the budget range of a properly organized village. A family of trained laborers could acquire at least one of these in less than a generation, and the items would likely outlast the family's surname.

[Psyren]

And Cleric...whether you say it's the gods or simply their devotion that manifests the power...it'd get really annoying. I don't want to tie myself down to devoting my entire being to a single thing.

Honestly, I think much of GitP would do well as clerics; championing ideals and philosophies even if no deities in that setting were somehow palatable. And even for those who aren't pious, there are still routes to divine power that don't care if you're a devoted worshiper or not, like Archivist, Factotum, Binder or Artificer. And failing even those, psionics were mentioned as well.

Our system knowledge alone would give us a pretty big advantage in most settings. As D&D players, we actually know far more about a given major setting's cosmology and planar politics than the average commoner, expert or even aristocrat would need to have spent a lifetime learning. Even concepts that are basic to us, like "Incarnum and Binding exist" or "most magic items can be hacked to ignore their programming" or knowing the strengths and weaknesses of each creature's type or traits of various plains, are considered a pretty specialized education in-universe. Simply by having read the core rulebooks, we would get a lot of AP credits to be bumped to the head of the class, as it were, and probably attract the attention of some connected patrons looking for apprentices before too long.



Psionics is a cool avenue. But, you've got basically 2 books (first party) of spells to choose from, compared to the 50 quintillion that wizards have, which means you have even fewer choices, and innovation still isn't a thing. But it's less work. Maybe a bit more mentally draining, but less work. And there's still a couple neat tricks you could pull, even with the very restrictive move set.

Nah, the only spells you really need are core, just like the only powers you really need are in the XPH. Non-core adds more options, certainly, but nothing that's absolutely vital. Furthermore, part of the reason there are so many more spells than powers is that psionics did a lot of consolidation with its augment system. There might be 4-5 different spells for "throw a ball of {energy}," but psionics needs only one; similarly, a psion only needs one power to charm a foe and another to dominate it.

[ShurikVch]

If I can survive to level 2, I can obtain absolute immortalityHow?

and even at level 1 I can cut down my chances of dying in a CR 1 encounter to practically 0How?

so I would definitely want in the D&D world. And then becoming an Erudite with Convert Spell to PowerThat is - if you will be capable to.
Game handwaves inherent aptitude which is necessary to enter some classes, but it doesn't mean any random person is able to enter them

[Xanyo]

Fortunately, I'm already comparable to my potential build. Level 1 is in Pugilist from Dragon Magazine. Shake it Off makes it so I only take nonlethal damage. Then, all I need is a ton of immunities.

[Yahzi]

Why? Well, for one, no internet!
This is a really good point - medieval life was stultifyingly dull. Music, books, plays - we take these for granted, but they were quite rare. People don't really appreciate how GDP much we spend on entertainment.

That said, the D&D world has a few attractions. Spells that can do what we still cannot: heal the sick, raise the dead, and tell the truth.

I could talk about this subject so much it would fill several books. Three so far, and two more to come. :smallbiggrin:

[WhatThePhysics]

This is a really good point - medieval life was stultifyingly dull. Music, books, plays - we take these for granted, but they were quite rare. People don't really appreciate how GDP much we spend on entertainment.

That said, the D&D world has a few attractions. Spells that can do what we still cannot: heal the sick, raise the dead, and tell the truth.

I could talk about this subject so much it would fill several books. Three so far, and two more to come. :smallbiggrin:

No internet? No problem. There are spells for that.


Get a member of the species turritopsis dohrnii. We'll call them Frank, for the sake of memorization. Make many drawings and paintings of Frank, regularly bottle the water from their tank, and take clippings of their body. Be sure to heal them when you take clippings, because it's very important that they indefinitely stay alive. Distribute the images and clippings of Frank everywhere, along with their water. This will give them a Will save modifier range of +5 to -21 against Scrying.

Build a bunch of continuous and use-activated items of Arcane Mark, Detect Scrying, Erase, Mage Hand, Sculpt Sound, Scrying, Sending, and Silent Image. Use Arcane Mark and Erase to label the items and maintain a directory. When you want to access the network, cast Scrying on Frank, and a nearby employee with a continuous item of Detect Scrying will tell you to cast Sending. In your Sending, specify what you want to access, and they will use Mage Hand to conveniently activate the appropriate items of Sculpt Sound and Silent Image.

[Coidzor]

Given that the majority of D&D settings are explicitly stated to have physics like our own, just with many things simplified for ease of play at the table and the addition of natural and artificial magical effects, it's entirely possible that, given the right infrastructure, computers could just be made and work, as long as you don't have a deity like Gond saying no to gun technology or an overdeity like Ao stepping in to preserve product identity for the glorious shareholders.

Still might just be better off developing the ability to go to Earth or another high-technology world, such as Androffa in Golarion's universe, and getting the knowledge/skilled people to start the process of being able to industrialize in a world where magical supplements or shortcuts are available. Power generation, for instance, would not be less of a hurdle to get going from a lower tech base, between things like animated objects being able to make perpetual motion machine dynamos and having magical heat sources that don't require raw materials to keep going once they're set up.

Of course, figuring out which version of Earth you'd have access to would be tricky, since sometimes it's a dead magic world so you'd need a way to get back or to cast in a dead magic zone. Other times, like in Golarion's cosmology IIRC, magic works normally, just all of us are muggles and lack the ability to do it naturally or just don't know how to access that sort of thing at all.

[Bronk]

I think I would like visiting a D&D world under controlled circumstances, but I wouldn't want to be stuck there permanently.

There's no retirement... you can never relax.

No matter where you are, there's always the possibility that you'll get overrun by monsters, killed by evil adventurers, and so on. Your body could be crunched up, and your soul could be eaten, stolen, or trapped.

After death, you either get stuck in a wall, or become a 2HD petitioner with no memories of your past. It's hardly even you at that point.

Even if you followed a local god and got to be a petitioner nominally protected in their divine realm, the best you can hope for is merging your soul with the deity, and even then, it's only a matter of time before the god itself is killed.

If you're a petitioner who lands in a general planar area, you're vulnerable, maybe much more vulnerable depending on how much more powerful you were in life, to yet another death by local hazards, local monsters, plane hopping evil adventurers, or soul eating monstrosities like Kezef the Chaos Hound. You might get lucky and merge with the plane over time, but even then, entire planar layers have been known to slip around.

The only way to avoid any of this is to achieve immortality (using one of the many methods), and then be constantly vigilant to avoid calamity for as long as you can. (Hmm, maybe take the wedded to history feat at first level, then declare that I'm going to become a PC at some point in the far future, and I'm currently living out my backstory?)

That just sounds like hard work. I'd rather just get a passport, hop over, exchange some currency, buy some magical healing and regeneration, maybe a few stat boosts, then head back before some terrible plot device happens in my presence.