Interesting dips for a Hunter.

[Egopunk]

Hey all, playing a Human Hunter in the RotRL Path. Sitting at level 2 right now with quite poor stats (from memory: S:14, D:15, Co:12, I:14 W:16 Ch:10) from our rolling but buying into Outflank (and Pack Flanking next level) to help with that. (I stupidly picked up TWF before really considering my options.)

My companion is a Tiger.

My question to you is what MC options and Dips would make this build have a bit more variety or compentency?

[Grim Reader]

Hey all, playing a Human Hunter in the RotRL Path. Sitting at level 2 right now with quite poor stats (from memory: S:14, D:15, Co:12, I:14 W:16 Ch:10) from our rolling but buying into Outflank (and Pack Flanking next level) to help with that. (I stupidly picked up TWF before really considering my options.)

My companion is a Tiger.

My question to you is what MC options and Dips would make this build have a bit more variety or compentency?

Anything that grants Domains. If you are allowed, Beastmaster or Sand Shaper from 3.5. The latter is quite difficult to enter from a divine caster human starting point.

[exelsisxax]

Stay hunter, because spell progression is better than every other class feature in base classes(unless you take your 5th level in a PoW full initiator).

Multiclassing is objectively a bad choice here.

[Egopunk]

Stay hunter, because spell progression is better than every other class feature in base classes(unless you take your 5th level in a PoW full initiator).

Multiclassing is objectively a bad choice here.


Really? Capped at 6th level that I obtain WAY behind curve (considering the majority of my spells are from a full caster class) is better than delaying by 1 level and dipping?

I mean, don't get me wrong, there are some good spells on my 2nd and 3rd level lists but by the time I get them, mostly they just aren't much special.

Druid spellcasting just ain't so hot, especially 1-6 levels late. The Ranger spells are nice but nothing jumps out at me as super interesting.

[exelsisxax]

Really? Capped at 6th level that I obtain WAY behind curve (considering the majority of my spells are from a full caster class) is better than delaying by 1 level and dipping?

I mean, don't get me wrong, there are some good spells on my 2nd and 3rd level lists but by the time I get them, mostly they just aren't much special.

Druid spellcasting just ain't so hot, especially 1-6 levels late. The Ranger spells are nice but nothing jumps out at me as super interesting.

What do you mean way behind curve? It's a 6/9 caster class. There exists no noncasters(1pp, at least) that are superior. You'll be ahead of the fighter at every level even if you think you are "way behind". Spells are the most versatile and powerful feature in the game, so considering giving them up in order to acquite "versatility and competancy" is a non-starter. Retrain to a different class/non-casting archetype or PrC if you want to multiclass. Otherwise, you stop progressing the best thing any class has in the game and get little to no synergy in return.

[Egopunk]

What do you mean way behind curve? It's a 6/9 caster class. There exists no noncasters(1pp, at least) that are superior. You'll be ahead of the fighter at every level even if you think you are "way behind". Spells are the most versatile and powerful feature in the game, so considering giving them up in order to acquite "versatility and competancy" is a non-starter. Retrain to a different class/non-casting archetype or PrC if you want to multiclass. Otherwise, you stop progressing the best thing any class has in the game and get little to no synergy in return.

I kind of feel your attempts to reply to this thread are redundant as they don't actually answer the question asked, just restate your personal opinion.

I want you to take a look at the other person to reply.

See what he did?

He answered the question.

Don't bother posting in a thread asking for interesting dips if the best you can do is: "don't"

I am aware that single class hunter is superior. Notice how I didn't ask the question: "Should I MC or Dip or Not?", to which your posts would have been entirely more helpful and accurate answers.

[exelsisxax]

I did answer your question, just not as explicitly as you appear to want. I'll try again.


My question to you is what MC options and Dips would make this build have a bit more variety or compentency?

Answer: There is no dip for a (standard) hunter for level 3 that isn't bad.

However, later on a standard hunter can PrC out into divine casting or animal companion based classes. Neither will make you more versatile, but potentially more powerful at specific roles or tactics.

If you want to multiclass, retrain into a spellless ranger. You undervalue spells, and multiclassing will make them actually suck, so cut to the chase and dump them. Then you can take dips in something like rogue or barb without gutting your best class feature, and gain plenty of bonus feats and numerical bonuses in the process.

If you want a more specific and interesting build that would make you extremely versatile, take 4 levels of hunter, then 1 level of any path of war primary initiator class. This allows you to then easily fill requirements for the Battle Templar (https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/path-of-war/prestige-classes/battle-templar) PrC at level 6. Battle templar advances both divine casting and maneuvers. Of course, this requires being able to use PoW. But it leaves you with most of your spellcasting, a nice bunch of maneuvers in your back pocket, heavy armor prof, move-action spellcasting, and multiple high-efficiency healing methods. Take boon companion and your AC won't be much behind either.

That better?

[Egopunk]

Yes, thank you. Much better. Sorry we got off on the wrong foot.


The party makeup is a Necromancery Cleric, a Paladin, A Druid, A Bard and a Dwarven Fighter. The Paladin's first two levels were a The Alchemical Barbarian ACF thing and the Druid was a late addition. Ultimately I picked a support caster with some limited melee combat ability because I thought we needed that support casting badly. Now it seems fairly reduntant with 2 divine full casters, 1 arcane support caster and a divine half caster on the field.

Hence I was looking into ways to diversify my skill set or increase my combat potency. Perhaps I should have explained this in OP but I thought my question was specific enough that I wouldn't get "y do, spells OP?" responses. Evidently I was incorrect.

[Geddy2112]

Sitting at level 2 right now with quite poor stats (from memory: S:14, D:15, Co:12, I:14 W:16 Ch:10) from our rolling but buying into Outflank (and Pack Flanking next level) to help with that.
Wait, how are these poor stats? You don't have a single negative, not even in your dump stat. You have a +3 mod in your casting stat, which is also a +3 to will saves and perception. You have a +2 in strength, making you qualify for power attack and capable of doing some nasty things with a two handed weapon. A +2 from dex to armor, reflex saves, and initiative. A +1 from con for extra HP, and a bonus to fort. Certainly a 14 or more in con is better for a frontliner because your a d8 hit die class, but not bad. Your +2 in int with 6 skill ranks/level makes you a skillmonkey.

At level 2. These are really good stats unless the whole party rolled 18's left and right. Even then, yours are not bad, theirs are just stupidly good.(Part of why I think rolling is garbage but not the place for that.


(I stupidly picked up TWF before really considering my options.)Ask if you can retrain. If not and you really wanna make a go of it, it is not the worst build. Certainly a 2 hander will do better.


My companion is a Tiger.
Tiger is really good. At level 7 the thing gets pounce, which is insanely good and a very low level to get such an ability. Plus grab and rake. Outright brutal.


My question to you is what MC options and Dips would make this build have a bit more variety or compentency?
I think your greatly underestimate the power of the hunter. Even without magic, you are basically a caviler on roids. Your melee damage potential is horrifying, and your magic just makes it better. I think you should stay in your class, and if you must multiclass either take boon companion feat or pick a class with a mount/companion. The animal companion, animal aspect, and teamwork feats are the real strength of the hunter, which has arguably the strongest animal companion in the whole game.

You should be outpacing the damage of the paladin and fighter easily to the point that unless you are up against an evil thing, they are more show turtles while you and the tiger wreck shop. Your animal focus can boost your stats and since it is always on the tiger, and at level 8 they get better and you get two, making the tiger a freaking monster. Early level spells from the ranger list like lead blades can buff your damage. Magic fang for the cat, longstrider for a nice boost to your speed, heightened awareness for an initiative bonus. If your druid does not routinely prepare faerie fire then by all means grab it, it is one of the best spells in the game, even at higher levels. Your DC's are nothing to sneeze at, so entangle is worth knowing and snowball is a great damage/debuff spell if you wanna have that in your repertoire.

I can see how you might feel hosed on class skills and spells since the druid showed up. They are going to also probably cover nature and survival, but you both should max perception. The bard, paladin, and cleric probably have social skills covered, but if the bard/fighter is not focusing on intimidate you could have that be your niche. Even with a paladin, it is worth a rank in heal in case you need to stabilize a fallen ally. The druid, cleric, and paladin also likely have some skill in it, and might have CLW prepped. If nobody else did, grab a wand of CLW to be the patch healer(I am assuming a necromancy cleric is not channeling positive energy). The one thing you can shine at is stealth. The paladin, fighter, and cleric are going to be dead giveaways with their low dex and heavy armor. The bard has it as a skill, but is not likely to have any focus in it. You can really boost it with the owl aspect, and at 8th level having both the tiger and owl aspect gives you a zesty +8. Combined with good perception, survival to track(plus your tracking bonus) and a tiger to hunt with you, you are the shoe in for party scout.

Have you considered using your tiger as a mount? Either wait till level 7 or grab the undersize mount feat and get a lance. Tiger pounces, rips people apart, you lance them with spirited charge. If you wanna two weapon fight, the bonuses from pack flanking/outflank will ensure you hit and flurry a ton of damage.

If you must multiclass, a dip into caviler is not the worst thing around. A free teamwork feat, d10HD, full bab, mount progression(use the beast rider archtype) the challenge ability, and a minor order bonus and some class skills. A second level might be worth the order ability depending. I think you are going to be perfectly fine as a hunter, just give it a chance.