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View Full Version : Straight Paladin or Paladin--->Sentinel



Zhentarim
2017-01-22, 01:54 AM
Which is better overall?

Kelb_Panthera
2017-01-22, 04:21 AM
Which sentinel? Or is this a PF thing?

Serafina
2017-01-22, 09:06 AM
Probably talking about the Sentinel (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/sentinel) PrC in Pathfinder.

Honestly, I don't really like the Sentinel.
It has the usual zero-utility problem that all the Warrior-type classes get stuck with. Two skill points per level, no relevant class features, no spells. The Paladin is much better here, with at least some spells and four skill points per level.
Almost all of it's class features are just plain numbers. It increases attack and damage, Initiative, Combat Maneuvers, Saving Throws and your ability to punch through damage reduction, sure. But does it do anything else?

You get early access to Sentinel-boons, sure. But do note the Diverse Obedience (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/diverse-obedience) feat, which also gives two levels early access and more importantly, let's you choose from Evangelist, Exalted or Sentinel boons each time you gain one - which can allow you to get better combinations, or just not get less-good boons.
You get two bonus feats, sure. But you also had to take Weapon Focus to take the class, unless you get some other use out of that feat, you effectively only gain one combat feat from this class.
You also get Leadership, but that can easily turn into a lost class feature depending on whether your GM is fine with that feat.
The capstone can be pretty good - DR 10/Alignment is pretty darn good, DR 5/alighment and metal is less spectacular, DR 3/- isn't that big of a deal. The basically-Diehard effect is nice too. And the 1/day swift-action cure critical wounds is worse than what a Paladin can do via Lay on Hands.

So basically, you don't get anything you can't get as a Paladin, except maybe DR 10 once you finish out the PrC.


Is a straight Paladin better?
In almost all cases, yes. You'll continue spellcasting, smite evil, lay on hands and all your class features, while having a better chassis (better will save, better skills).
I can only ever recommend the Sentinel if you follow a deity that'll give you DR 10, and if you have a very good combination with the Sentinel Boons in mind. Otherwise, it's just not a very good PrC - not for lack of strength, but rather because it basically only provides boring bonuses to numbers, instead of interesting new abilities.

Zhentarim
2017-01-22, 09:44 AM
Probably talking about the Sentinel (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/sentinel) PrC in Pathfinder.

Honestly, I don't really like the Sentinel.
It has the usual zero-utility problem that all the Warrior-type classes get stuck with. Two skill points per level, no relevant class features, no spells. The Paladin is much better here, with at least some spells and four skill points per level.
Almost all of it's class features are just plain numbers. It increases attack and damage, Initiative, Combat Maneuvers, Saving Throws and your ability to punch through damage reduction, sure. But does it do anything else?

You get early access to Sentinel-boons, sure. But do note the Diverse Obedience (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/diverse-obedience) feat, which also gives two levels early access and more importantly, let's you choose from Evangelist, Exalted or Sentinel boons each time you gain one - which can allow you to get better combinations, or just not get less-good boons.
You get two bonus feats, sure. But you also had to take Weapon Focus to take the class, unless you get some other use out of that feat, you effectively only gain one combat feat from this class.
You also get Leadership, but that can easily turn into a lost class feature depending on whether your GM is fine with that feat.
The capstone can be pretty good - DR 10/Alignment is pretty darn good, DR 5/alighment and metal is less spectacular, DR 3/- isn't that big of a deal. The basically-Diehard effect is nice too. And the 1/day swift-action cure critical wounds is worse than what a Paladin can do via Lay on Hands.

So basically, you don't get anything you can't get as a Paladin, except maybe DR 10 once you finish out the PrC.


Is a straight Paladin better?
In almost all cases, yes. You'll continue spellcasting, smite evil, lay on hands and all your class features, while having a better chassis (better will save, better skills).
I can only ever recommend the Sentinel if you follow a deity that'll give you DR 10, and if you have a very good combination with the Sentinel Boons in mind. Otherwise, it's just not a very good PrC - not for lack of strength, but rather because it basically only provides boring bonuses to numbers, instead of interesting new abilities.

I serve Erastil and am a ranger, but I've always wondered what the three religious Prc's are like

Peat
2017-01-22, 01:13 PM
I serve Erastil and am a ranger, but I've always wondered what the three religious Prc's are like

Basically they're ways to get the Deific Obedience Divine Boons early. I can't see many reasons for anyone to go into any of them other than those Boons - I guess Sentinel might be worth it for a Fighter that really wants that DR, while someone who really wants a Domain might like Exalted. Evangelist for a multiclass Gish Arcane caster is the best of them, because you only sacrifice one level before carrying over all of your class features onto a medium BAB and HD template.

There is also the 'minor' downside that all of your class abilities key off of performing the daily Ritual Obedience. A GM who wants to can cripple the character pretty hard by preventing the obedience from being carried out. Can't see many GMs doing so but its worth remembering.

Anyway, the Divine Boons are pretty bloody powerful in some cases. Point in case - an Evangelist of Erastil gets to summon an exact clone of their animal companion once a day (duration= PC's HD) at level 6 of the class and gets to add Wisdom to hit and damage with attack rolls using a longbow within 30ft at level 9 - level 11/14 for someone entering the class as quick as possible. I can imagine some Ranger builds reckoning adding those being worth the loss of a few hit points, 3 points of BAB and the delayed in class abilities.

But the way the Divine Boons are set up only make them really worth it for a few builds. And with the Diverse Obedience feat giving a mix and match set of Boons (which makes them more useful) and giving them a bit earlier than you get them without the PrCs (although not as early as you do with the PrCs), they're that bit less attractive.

TL:DR - They're not awful if you like the flavour but only really helpful for a small number of niche builds depending on the Divine Boons.

Serafina
2017-01-22, 07:01 PM
Evangelist is pretty neat since it advances your main class features at 9 out of 10 levels, while giving a little bit of extra on top of it and early boon access.
It can also be used as a chassis side- or even upgrade - it has D8 HD, medium BAB, good reflex and 6 skill points (so basically a Rogue), which can be good.
Basically it can be a very cheap PrC, where you basically only lose a level of progression and maybe some chassis feature.

Exalted fully progresses divine spellcasting. It effectively offers medium BAB, good Fortitude (via sacred bonus) and Will and two skill points, so that's hardly an upgrade for most classes.
It's main feature is really the extra domain it gives. You get the domain power, get to cast the spells in your domain slot (if any) and even get the domain spells as 1/day SLAs. With the right domain, that can add a very good amount of flexibility.
The capstone is also pretty nice, effectively being a free lesser wish, except for divine spells.
Basically it's a good PrC for a casting-focused divine spellcaster - especially Clerics who don't care about channel energy, who basically don't lose anything from it.
(And Serenrae Exalted doesn't even lose channel energy, so it only delays some domain progression for a while

The Sentinel on the other hand, well see above. IMO it's the poorest of the three divine servant PrCs.