Help me flesh out this drow bard in an underdark campaign

[Willie the Duck]

Hi all, here's the situation-
After months of hinting at Out of the Abyss, the DM instead decided to run an all-drow campaign. The story as we know it is thus: We were part of a minor house in Menzoberranzan. It fell out of favor with Lolth and was mostly wiped out. We were the part of the house deemed loyal enough to be spared. We have one year of protection (from war of annihilation, not universal), after which we will have had to have made enough allies or shown ourselves useful enough not to be wiped out. We will have to socialize, convince the other houses to use our services, do espionage, do all the sorts of stuff one does in an urban campaign. But then also go adventuring some in the underdark to actually accomplish those things we arrange to do for other houses. So social and skullduggery talents can't be neglected, but we can't be total pushovers in fights either.

The party is going to consist of:
female Drow Cleric (Lolth-trickery) 4, Acolyte background.
female Drow Barbarian (not sure what type, probably a re-skinned :smallbiggrin: bear) 3, noble background(maybe?)
female Drow Monk (either shadow or long death from SCAG) 3, noble background
And me, a male Drow Bard (to be determined) 3, charlatan background.
We will also have some low-power warriors, guards, men-at-arms to adventure with.

A little background on the players: We have played together for one previous campaign, which was the first 5e one for everyone except myself. A lot of the players still play like it was 2nd edition. High level strategic gameplay is a little behind the curve compared to these boards (no one has yet abused GWM or SS, no sorcadins or sorcerer/warlock combos, etc.).

The RP idea for my male bard is if the females in the group are lieutenants of the household, and the guards are enlisted, I am the non-comm. I am suave, charming (but forgettable), and people usually see me as a standard issue noble male having to be half in the court, half actually leading men. Kind of a fopish lesser noble of no concern, so they underestimate me, but I don't look out of place either in court or on the adventure. What else do I do with this RP-wise

My main crunch questions involve whether to pick valor or lore bard, what spells to select, if lore bard, what magic secrets, and what to do with my ASI come level 4.
My (rolled, and modified by race) stats are
Str 10 Dex 20 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 18
Proficiencies: Acrobatics, Deception, Insight, Perception, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, disguise kit, forgery kit
HP: 26, AL: I don't know, probably CE, but maybe up to TN

For Valor vs. Lore it is a hard pick. For Lore, cutting words is clearly useful. The three extra skills (probably Investigation, Persuasion, and thieves' tools) would be okay, but at this level are only +1 compared to Jack of all Trades. The two spells from Magic Secrets at 6 would definitely define the build. Valor is an odd one. I'd usually say it wasn't worth it. Combat Inspiration looks just in general worse than cutting words (boost AC instead of subtract from attacker's to-hit, but it takes both my bonus action to give and my allies' reaction to use). With a 20 Dex, medium armor is unimportant. The shield would be nice, except that pretty much requires war caster, plus you can't use it while using a bow. The extra attack would be very nice though. Here's why: I'm going to assume that, given how much social stuff we'll likely be doing (and how much of the skullduggery crap will fall on my shoulders, what with a monk and barbarian being much of the party), a lot of my spells will be enchantments and such. In the many combat situations where I might not have the right spells, it'd be nice to be able to plunk away with two 1d8+5 attacks instead of one.

For ASI/Feats: War Caster is a natural choice for valor. +2 Charisma of course makes sense (especially for enchantments, which are usually save based, and often 1/rnd when used in combat). Inspiring Leader is thematically interesting (and helps keep those low-level warriors alive). If I did go Lore, Magic Initiate to grab maybe green-flame blade and a long-range blast cantrip (fire bolt or eldritch blast, depending on whether I chose a sorcerer or warlock 1st level spell) might shore up some combat weakness.

So that's my thoughts as of now. What do people suggest for valor/lore, for ASI, and for spells?

Much thanks!

[Temperjoke]

I'd go with Lore Bard since your group's magical prowess is somewhat limited. That will enable you to provide support for any front-liners both with healing and crowd control. War Caster is a good feat even if you aren't using a shield, for the boost to your concentration saves, I'd emphasize that more than Magic Initiate, really. Vicious Mockery is a really good ranged cantrip, because not only can it damage, it also imposes disadvantage on the target's next attack role. You're going to be more useful staying away from the front lines as a Lore Bard, if you go that route, so I wouldn't worry about Green Flame Blade.

[Willie the Duck]

Yeah, magic initiate wasn't really very high in the running, especially when I compared ranged damage of fire bolt (since I'd much rather MI from sorc than warlock, and be able to pick up a spell that was on both bard and sorc lists), and realized that it was until quit high level barely better than a single 1d8+5 light xbow shot with 1 better to-hit.

Extra attack with valor is still tempting, since dishing out +8 to hit, 2d8+10 damage at level 6 is, while not great, a great way to stay relevant while not burning spells (or spell selection, as in having chosen non-combat spells). It does seem too little to justify not going lore, though.

But what of the spells to take, both Magic Secrets and bard spells? Anyone have experience on what actually works. At 3rd, I will have 2 cantrips, and up to 4 1st, 2 2nd (can pick more 1st at expense of 2nd). I was thinking:
c: Minor Illusion (sky's the limit with illusions)
c: Vicious Mockery (I really don't know how I feel about this one, having not seen it in action)
1: Dissonant Whispers (if I'm going to get a combat spell, it might as well be the one that can screw the guy in a crowd of my allies)
1: Faerie Fire (drow already get this, and how many combat spells do I want? hmmm)
1: Healing word (we have a cleric, but getting our mooks back on their feet is part of my role)
1: charm person, sleep, silent image, and Tasha's laughter are all good ones for non-combat/sneaking work, so many to choose from (sigh)
2: Heat Metal (situational, but SO powerful when up against armored folks)
2: Suggestion ("I suggest you help me defeat your friends", "I suggest you not sound the alarm")
...too bad I can't also get silence, but maybe at level 4

Any insight into how well any and all of these work in-actual-play would be appreciated.

Still not clear whether I want to take War Caster (must all spellcasters take this, didn't we just say I was going to stay out of melee?), Inspiring leader (very thematic, and stays useful much of the game), or +2 cha at 4th.

[Temperjoke]

Yeah, magic initiate wasn't really very high in the running, especially when I compared ranged damage of fire bolt (since I'd much rather MI from sorc than warlock, and be able to pick up a spell that was on both bard and sorc lists), and realized that it was effectively almost the same as a single 1d8+5 light xbow shot with 1 better to-hit.

Extra attack with valor is still tempting, since dishing out +8 to hit, 2d8+10 damage at level 6 is, while not great, a great way to stay relevant while not burning spells (or spell selection, as in having chosen non-combat spells). It does seem too little to justify not going lore, though.

But what of the spells to take, both Magic Secrets and bard spells? Anyone have experience on what actually works. At 3rd, I will have 2 cantrips, and up to 4 1st, 2 2nd (can pick more 1st at expense of 2nd). I was thinking:
c: Minor Illusion (sky's the limit with illusions)
c: Vicious Mockery (I really don't know how I feel about this one, having not seen it in action)
1: Dissonant Whispers (if I'm going to get a combat spell, it might as well be the one that can screw the guy in a crowd of my allies)
1: Faerie Fire (drow already get this, and how many combat spells do I want? hmmm)
1: Healing word (we have a cleric, but getting our mooks back on their feet is part of my role)
1: charm person, sleep, silent image, and Tasha's laughter are all good ones for non-combat/sneaking work, so many to choose from (sigh)
2: Heat Metal (situational, but SO powerful when up against armored folks)
2: Suggestion ("I suggest you help me defeat your friends", "I suggest you not sound the alarm")
...too bad I can't also get silence, but maybe at level 4

Any insight into how well any and all of these work in-actual-play would be appreciated.

Still not clear whether I want to take War Caster (must all spellcasters take this, didn't we just say I was going to stay out of melee?), Inspiring leader (very thematic, and stays useful much of the game), or +2 cha at 4th.

Well, like I mentioned, War Caster is good for concentration saves, which if you're damaged by any attack (not just melee, but ranged and spells) you risk losing your concentration spell. You don't have to take it, but it's a good one for spellcasters. Another good feat is Ritual Caster, that will allow you to expand your spell list and out of combat versatility.

Dissonant Whispers is a good spell to take. I'd also consider Disguise Self, while not a good combat spell, it can be very useful during social and stealth situations. I'd also take Identify, someone will need to be able to cast it. Invisibility is very useful as well. Detect Thoughts can be useful for a variety of situations too, such as finding the invisible enemy, or assisting with interrogation.

[djreynolds]

Any thoughts on multiclassing?

Sorcerer is right there, but Lore bard is better just for the extra spells.

Also calm emotions is sweet, good for when you guys fail fear and charm saves... I'm just discovering how good of a spell it is.

And with that said as crazy as it sounds you need to be the backbone of the party and be able to fix problems... they have the damage output fixed... you are the guy who makes everyone better. Counter charm is very good, but it is only advantage and last a turn. And you do have heroism as a spell.

1 level of fighter, could give you archery style. Crossbow expert now becomes viable with a hand crossbow... very drow of you

1 level of sorcerer grants the shield spell, +5AC when you need it, some cantrips you need.

Anyhow the build sounds awesome and the campaign sounds wicked, I like it you are all drow and you are the lone whipping boy to the females

[Willie the Duck]

Well, like I mentioned, War Caster is good for concentration saves, which if you're damaged by any attack (not just melee, but ranged and spells) you risk losing your concentration spell. You don't have to take it, but it's a good one for spellcasters.

I know. That was more of a micro-venting against feat-tax feats than anything else.


Another good feat is Ritual Caster, that will allow you to expand your spell list and out of combat versatility.

Honestly, Even though I've been playing 5e for a year now, I haven't quite gotten around to figuring out ritual spells. How would it work for a bard?


Dissonant Whispers is a good spell to take. I'd also consider Disguise Self, while not a good combat spell, it can be very useful during social and stealth situations. I'd also take Identify, someone will need to be able to cast it. Invisibility is very useful as well. Detect Thoughts can be useful for a variety of situations too, such as finding the invisible enemy, or assisting with interrogation.

Disguise self I'm relying on disguise kit proficiency. All of these are useful, and on the list. Sadly, I get a total of 8 spells right now (another reason magic initiate sounded promising). Two cantrips, plus six more, only two of which could be 2nd level (at 4th level I get one more, and can switch another 1st to a 2nd if I want). This is the part where most of the guides and build threads break down-most people can happily suggest races, class admixtures and ASI/feats, but I haven't seen much on which spells to grab at which level. I will consider all of these.


Any thoughts on multiclassing?

Sorcerer is right there, but Lore bard is better just for the extra spells.
<moved>
1 level of sorcerer grants the shield spell, +5AC when you need it, some cantrips you need.


It is, and perhaps if I feel I need more combat prowress (or get hit too much) I will pick it up for shield, fire bolt, GFB, prestidigitation, mage hand, and some other 1st level.


Also calm emotions is sweet, good for when you guys fail fear and charm saves... I'm just discovering how good of a spell it is.

I haven't thought about this spell since 2e. I see that it does have some interesting benefits. I think I will see how often enemy charmers attack us (this, plus counterspells are on the "yes, of course, but only if the DM sends lots of wizards").


And with that said as crazy as it sounds you need to be the backbone of the party and be able to fix problems... they have the damage output fixed... you are the guy who makes everyone better. Counter charm is very good, but it is only advantage and last a turn. And you do have heroism as a spell.

I know. It's a challenging transition (last campaign I was a paladin). Choosing a bard makes one want to be able to do everything, since you can do any one specific thing (just not all things). I also had to stop myself from being prepared to do all the healing (even though we have a cleric). My initial thoughts on level 6 spell secrets was fireball and aura of vitality. Working around my basic leanings is why I'm here asking advice.


1 level of fighter, could give you archery style. Crossbow expert now becomes viable with a hand crossbow... very drow of you

It would be very drow. There's one of those "you can't have everything" conundrums. As a lore bard, picking this up (presumably bard4 for the feat and fighter 1) would have my character shooting twice with a hand xbow, and at 7th (bard 6) be able to cast crusader's mantle, for 2 attacks a +10 dealing 2d6+2d4+10 (22 avg). A Valor bard could use a long bow and swift quiver (but no crusader's mantle) and be doing +11, 4d8+20 (38), but only at level 11.

That brings up a question about hand xbows. What does the 'light' quality give them? two-handed fighting is listed as a melee weapon only feature, but they have it. What does it do? Does it mean that you can fire one in each hand a bonus action (just without being able to reload)?


Anyhow the build sounds awesome and the campaign sounds wicked, I like it you are all drow and you are the lone whipping boy to the females

I think it's a neat idea. :smallbiggrin: The rest of the players were like, "well why would you deliberately choose a half of the society that is an underclass?" and I replied, "because much of the drow court consider males to be nearly interchangeable, and thus often overlooked and underestimated. :smallcool:

Plus, as the guy who has to hitch their wagon to others' success, I can be the guy in a CE group that actually has a reason to keep the group cohesive and so forth.

Thanks for the responses! I look forward to what others have to say as well!

[Willie the Duck]

1 level of sorcerer grants the shield spell, +5AC when you need it, some cantrips you need.


I think I will pick up a level of sorcerer (for fire bolt, GFB, mage hand, prestidigitation, shield, and one other 1st level spell) along with the +1 AC for dragon sorc. The question is when to do it. Definitely after 4 for the ASI? 5 for Font of Inspiration? 6th for Magic Secrets? Hmm... this is yet another decision.