Spell Usage

[eldon2]

I recently have been trying to get into adventure league so I have something I can play easily without much commit. The problem I keep running into is that I am playing a bard and I have lost all faith if I playing it correctly. The bard only gains resources from from long rests which in three adventures modules I have played in so far never happen. At most we get a short rest if we were lucky.

The result is now that I am level three, I have six spells slots to use for 4-5 encounters meaning I can use one or two spells per encounter. So I picked spells that have no save, take at least half damage, or hit at least one or two opponents in a grouped cluster of enemies. The problem is that other then sleep I can not consistently get the battlefield control effects to work and if they do work they are generally minor like being pushed back ten feet or in the best case scenario the enemy has to run with dissonant whispers. I want to use things like hideous laughter or suggestion but a DC 13 is so easy to pass essentially wasting my precious spell slots.

Anyone has suggestions? I at levels 5-6 I plan to go warlock to get some more spells, short rest spells, and fix my lack of good damaging cantrips.


Lore bard
For the record this is my current spell list:

Vicious Mockery
Message

sleep
dissonant whispers
thunderwave
Faerie Fire

heat metal
shatter

[Armok]

Keep in mind that good spell selection includes both in and out of combat potential, and that battlefield control does not necessarily mean directly afflicting an enemy with a debuff. It can, but it doesn't have to. If you want to learn more about control, read Treantmonks guide to wizards. Yeah, it's a different class, but all the right ideas about spell selection and utility are there and put into better words than I could.

Both your level two spells have very specific applications. AoE damage, or damage against a single target with cool stuff of they're wearing or made of metal. Damage is nice, but be careful about prioritizing it to the point of neglecting other options. For example, if I was going to select your next spells at level up, I'd choose Dispel Magic and replace Thunderwave with Silence, Lesser Restoration or Knock.

Combat isn't the end all be all of a character, and bards especially can shine in out of combat situations! Make the most of that and own the times when you can cover an area the group wouldn't have otherwise.

[Potato_Priest]

Hold person will probably feel much more effective. If the enemy fails their save, they get complete paralysis (which means your melee friends will auto-crit them) for at least one round, with a new save at the end of each of their turns.

[eldon2]

Hold person goes back to my original problem though of low spell saves. I am not sure if I just jaded or not but seems like large portions of monsters and humanoids have at least a plus one or two for saving throws. Meaning at this point which will change at level four, they have something close to a 50% chance to flat out ignore my spell. In a dungeon setting were spells can not be wasted anything similar to hold person seems like risky investment. Would you say it is a worthwhile investment? Because at the moment my running count for dissonant whispers is full effect once and failed half damage four times. At least using that spell get some damage off.

Also Armok my experience with adventuring league has been 20% talking and 80% combat. Frankly designing for combat is only effective thing to do. Plus games typically have six other players meaning spells like knock are worthless as we will probably have a rogue(high likely a arcane trickster as well). Thank you for the advice though. In a typical game setting I would 100% agree.

[Biggstick]

I would drop Sleep at this point. You're at a point where it's going to be a lot less effective. Grab Healing Word instead.

Level 5 for Bards is a pretty awesome level. Your Bardic Inspirations will come back on a short rest at this point. You will be able to be quite a bit more liberal with them. I'm also wondering how you seem to not be getting long rests. Your first paragraph seems to indicate that you're getting none, but your second paragraph says 4-5 encounters before a long rest. Please clarify.

What other people have suggested is great; Lesser Restoration, Silence, and Knock are great spells to add to your repertoire. I would also recommend Enhance Ability, as this can turn you into an absolute skill check monster outside of combat. You're also great at making someone else succeed at a really important check, by being able to give them Enhance Ability (advantage on a particular skill check) and Bardic Inspiration (d6 until level 5, at which point it's a d8). The Bard's spell list really lends itself well to taking care of your allies with buffs and throwing up some debuffs on the enemies.

Another few question, what race are you? Do you plan on picking up +2 Charisma at level 4? Have you considered taking Eldritch Blast with your Bardic Secrets at level 6 rather then dipping Warlock?

[Potato_Priest]

Hold person goes back to my original problem though of low spell saves. I am not sure if I just jaded or not but seems like large portions of monsters and humanoids have at least a plus one or two for saving throws. Meaning at this point which will change at level four, they have something close to a 50% chance to flat out ignore my spell. In a dungeon setting were spells can not be wasted anything similar to hold person seems like risky investment. Would you say it is a worthwhile investment? Because at the moment my running count for dissonant whispers is full effect once and failed half damage four times. At least using that spell get some damage off.

Also Armok my experience with adventuring league has been 20% talking and 80% combat. Frankly designing for combat is only effective thing to do. Plus games typically have six other players meaning spells like knock are worthless as we will probably have a rogue(high likely a arcane trickster as well). Thank you for the advice though. In a typical game setting I would 100% agree.

I guess the value of hold person depends on your charisma. Against powerful single targets with bad mental saves, like Throd the barbarian it's great, but if you're not encountering many humanoids, or the ones you do encounter have good saves, don't pick it up. When I originally suggested it, I forgot that it only works on people. Oops.

I'd certainly hang on to heat metal.

There is a piece of truth in what Armok said. Lore Bards are not super duper well built for combat, and especially not combat where long rests are hard to get. I don't know what to tell you, apart from that you should perhaps head into warlock sooner rather than later if it looks like combat is going to be most of your game.

Another thing you could and probably should try is picking up some illusions. They are most likely to work well if you have some time before the enemies get to you, but on stupider opponents like animals they can be quite effective in the moment. Properly used, they can help you completely avoid a fight. Here are some ideas I've had about potential uses:

a) This is pretty common and not super creative, but create the illusion of a wall/cave in if you're in a tunnel and there are enemies coming. If nothing else, it should at least get your team a surprise round.
b) Create the illusion of enemy troops, then pretend to cut through them like butter. It works especially well if you look like you're in a blood frenzy while doing so. When you've finished off your illusion, scream and charge at the real enemy troops for an amazing intimidate check.
c) If you're in a maze, you can use minor illusion to redirect enemies that are searching for you by making noises elsewhere. Make sure you whisper your vocal component, though.

[eldon2]

The adventure league modules I have played in so far have been roughly four hours with 4-5 encounters occurring over the length of module. When the module is completed downtime activity is logged, gold distributed, and magic items are logged. At that point the session is entirely over and I probably not play with the same group again. Technically a long rest is never given.

I am playing a half elf with a 16 charisma. I plan to use my ability increases to get to 20 in charisma as quickly as possible. Frankly there are much better uses for magical secrets then eldritch blast and I want the warlock bonuses to spell such adding my charisma bonus and repelling blast.

[Armok]

Also Armok my experience with adventuring league has been 20% talking and 80% combat. Frankly designing for combat is only effective thing to do. Plus games typically have six other players meaning spells like knock are worthless as we will probably have a rogue(high likely a arcane trickster as well). Thank you for the advice though. In a typical game setting I would 100% agree.

Keep in mind though that you are limited on slots, and compared to a full caster also limited on spells known. Every spell selection you make must be a meaningful, well thought out choice or you run the risk of having an ineffective spell list. (Much to your credit you seem to know this already, hence the thread.)

Spell selection should cover three main questions. Those being "Do I have a spell to deal damage if I need to", "Do I have spells which influence the battlefield beyond damage", and "Do I have a few weird utility spells that aren't always useful, but when you could need them they're amazing."

You have a lot of the first covered, more so than you need in my opinion. You have a decent amount of the second, and the only spell covering the third is Message. Which isn't even a spell, it's a cantrip. Trust me, as somebody who usually ends up playing a caster nine times out of ten Tensers Floating Disc won't be handy, but when half the party is petrified one day and you need to haul their statuesque butts to the temple to save their characters... It's times like that when those few situational spells shine.

You might not use them all the time, but it's definitely worth dropping one of your older spells to pick up at least one situational spell. Thunderwave was my choice because Shatter outperforms it in almost every regard, and any situation where you really need that AoE is probably worth using a second level spell slot on. The entire point of replacing older spells is to start cycling out spells that become obsolete for those that better compliment your current spell list as you progress.

[JellyPooga]

Vicious Mockery
Message

sleep
dissonant whispers
thunderwave
Faerie Fire

heat metal
shatter
(Emphasis mine)

Herein lies your problem. 5 out of 7 of your spells/cantrips are filling the same role; direct damage. Even Sleep can be viewed as a damage spell because of its dependence on HP. Bards are great for buffs and debuffs; they're not so great at direct damage.

1st: Bane, Healing Word, Heroism, Silent Image
2nd: Enhance Ability, Calm Emotions, Hold Person, Invisibility, Suggestion

These are the "bread and butter" of Bards. With 16 Cha, aiming for 20 as soon as possible, you're never going to have much better odds than 50/50 of getting a spell to stick against someone with decent Saves; that's just the way the game's been designed. You're also not always going to be facing enemies with decent Saves...

Leave the damage dealing to those that are good at it; the Sorcerers and Warlocks, Fighters and Rogues. Bards don't do all that well in the spotlight; they're much better being the power behind the throne, letting other characters shine because you've set them up for it. Just don't let them forget you're an invaluable member of the team despite never needing to deal a single HP of damage yourself.

[KnotaGuru]

Adventuring life for all casters is a little rough before level 3, or even level 5. They don't have a lot of spell slots to start, so in the beginning levels, it's spam your cantrips and cast a leveled spell sparingly. Vicious mockery doesn't do much damage, but damage is not the bard's forte. Bards excel at control (buffs/especially debuffs). Vicious mockery is good for what it does, giving disadvantage to your enemies. At low levels, most enemies only get 1 attack.

I agree with Armok's suggestion to read Treantmonks guide to wizards. Bards make the party better and DMs cry. Your party may not notice how much you've turned the tide of battle or social interaction, but I can promise you that your DM will. And that's something to smile about :)

Once you hit level 5 and get bardic inspiration back on short rests, you'll love it, especially as a lore bard with cutting words. You'll also have access to level 3 spells, with 8 spells known and 9 spell slots.

Healing word is fantastic and the only healing spell you really need. Allies only need 1 hp to fight. Let them heal the rest out of combat, where you help out with song of rest :) Tasha's hideous laughter is fun too. Cast it on the BBEG so the party can take out the mooks. Thunderwave is okay since it gives you a nice AoE with a rider effect to get you out of melee, where you shouldn't really be and it's a level 1 spell. Dissonant whispers if fun for provoking AoO. 2nd level spells have some great choices - enhance ability, heat metal, invisibility, silence. Once you get 3rd level spells, I prefer hypnotic pattern to fear. Fear can get messy and allows a save every round. Hypnotic pattern is a nice sized AoE, keeps enemies in place, and doesn't have a verbal component so you could still cast it in a silence zone.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Another thing you could and probably should try is picking up some illusions..

Silent Image
Invisibility

This is what I came here to say. Generally illusion spells aren't cancelled by one lucky save, so they're much less dependent on your Charisma. They're also really flexible: I can't recommend them strongly enough.

[Dalebert]

I would advise against dipping warlock just for some short rest spells. I feel AL is more stingy with short rests than long ones, particularly when you get to tier 3. I'm working on a tier 3 module now that will soon be AL-legal and they've been planning to set it up so even one short rest int he 4 hour module is very difficult to get. Two are basically impossible. I believe I've talked them out of that and now they're leaning toward making one short rest viable per 4 hour game. Full casters will start to feel like they have plenty of slots once you're get into tier 2.

That said, full casters always have to think about managing their spell slots. You have to decide when an encounter is worth spending slots over or if you should just stick to cantrips or as a bard even (ranged?) weapon attacks. A valor bard may be able to save some slots by being able to contribute to melee some. Vicious Mockery is obviously not about the dmg and more about ameliorating dmg to your allies. I will reiterate what others have said, that you don't play a bard to be a damage-dealer. You will continue to face disappointment if you try to blow your limited resources on that. Focus on support--buff, debuff, crowd control, a little healing. You're new so I will suppress a *facepalm* but you should definitely learn Healing Word.

Remember you can rebuild everything between sessions while your'e still tier 1. After that, it locks into place and can only be changed in the normal manner, e.g. one spell can be switched out with each level advancement.