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View Full Version : Incantate & Metamagic - fellow DMs advice needed



Alveanerle
2007-07-20, 04:12 AM
Greetings and Salutations!

I'm a fairly newbie DM, never DMed any high level DnD groups. In our current game we're reaching the point of breaking it into lvl6, and here's the last point when i can easily make a judgement regarding metamagic rules.

The situation is like this:
One player, blaster wizard 5 (fire domain wizard), asked if Incantate (male form of Incantatrix) class is allowed - the answer was "yes, just take into consideration the errata".
He also wishes to pick Arcane Thesis with fireball spell, and Metamagic School Focus for evocation - the answer was also positive.

While each of these by themselves seem to be fine, i am a bit concerned about game balance effects of the combination.

For Incantate 10 the balancing element is included in the class errata - the spell level before application of Improved Metamagic cannot exceed the maximum spell level the Incantate can cast.

Now i wonder if similar restriction shouldn't be placed on a metamagic school focus.

For arcane thesis i such restrictions would be too much (it's a very narrow scope feat anyway).

The question asked by the player was this:
"If i take arcane thesis in fireball and metamagic school focus in evocation, i should be able to cast empowered searing fireball from a 4th level slot. The question is will i be able to use these 4th level slots for it starting with lvl7, lvl 9 or lvl 13? And what about plain searing fireballs (3rd circle) - can i cast them now or do i have to wait for lvl 7?"

What would be your view on balancing metamagic lowering effects? Or maybe there's something more i should be doing about Incantate?

Just for more reference:
- we're playing in FR, employing one of Paizo's awesome APs
- the rest of the group is Halfling Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 1 (Otto von Bugbear variant, plans to stick with it), Halfling Rogue 3/Transmuter 1 (plans to Arcane Tricksterize), Human Cleric of Lathander 5 (plans to Warpriest it), Dwarf Fighter 2/Warblade 2 (plans to own the universe with Master of the Nine), Human Warlock 3 (plans to kill them all and just own the universe). They were given enough Xp recently to level both halflings and dwarf up to 5th (sadly, the warlock wasn't participating).

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-07-20, 04:52 AM
For Incantate 10 the balancing element is included in the class errata - the spell level before application of Improved Metamagic cannot exceed the maximum spell level the Incantate can cast.


The Errata applies to Instant Metamagic, not Improved Metamagic.



As an aside it is worth noting that there is no similar restriction on Divine Metamagic.

Alveanerle
2007-07-20, 05:11 AM
Oh my. Didn't notice it was different "I" :smallsmile: .

Do you think that adding such restrictions to Improved MM and MM School Focus is a reasonable thing?

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-07-20, 06:04 AM
Generally I do not think it would be an unreasonable restriction under reasonable assumptions about balance.


However, when adjudicating balance for a specific group there are other concerns.

How experienced and mature is this player?

How well do you think he will be doing compared to the other players later on?

You say he is playing a blaster, which could mean that the risk of him overshadowing everyone else is smaller.

I am not sure I would implement the restriction in this situation, but it depends on the intra-party balance obviously.