Undead - Visage of the Deity, Greater

[Dlabuga]

Hello ppl.

If I use Visage of the Deity, Greater spell on my undead character...it will lose undead traits?

thx

[Zanos]

Your creature type changes to outsider for the duration of the spell.

Yes, you lose undead traits but gain outsider traits.

[Dlabuga]

Yes, you lose undead traits but gain outsider traits.

Ok! And how about Vile Death spell?

[Tiri]

Ok! And how about Vile Death spell?

A fiendish undead is still an undead-type creature. Nothing changes with regards to traits.

[Zanos]

Please do not cast vile death on yourself.

[Tiri]

Please do not cast vile death on yourself.

It's impossible to cast Vile Death on yourself as a PC, in any case.

[Zanos]

It's impossible to cast Vile Death on yourself as a PC, in any case.
You can't cast it on yourself as a PC and remain a PC, that was my point.

[Tiri]

You can't cast it on yourself as a PC and remain a PC, that was my point.

Your point is moot, because it is mechanically impossible for a PC to cast it on themselves.

[Zanos]

Your point is moot, because it is mechanically impossible for a PC to cast it on themselves.
How's that?

[Tiri]

How's that?

Vile Death is a 9th-level spell. The only playable creature it works on is a vampire. A vampire has LA +8.

Unless you use Savage Species, I suppose. A mummified creature is arguably a mummy, and has low enough LA to be able to take levels in Ur-Priest.

[Zanos]

Vile Death is a 9th-level spell. The only playable creature it works on is a vampire. A vampire has LA +8.

Unless you use Savage Species, I suppose. A mummified creature is arguably a mummy, and has low enough LA to be able to take levels in Ur-Priest.
PCs can be epic level, although rarely are. You could also get 9th level casting and then become a vampire.

[Dlabuga]

Its a NPC - Death Knight Template - Ur-Priest

My ideia: I want feathered wings and some boost. As an Ur-Priest I can cast Visage Of The Deity Greater and add Half-Celestial template to the Death Knight...but i want to keep my Undead Traits.

[Inevitability]

Its a NPC - Death Knight Template - Ur-Priest

My ideia: I want feathered wings and some boost. As an Ur-Priest I can cast Visage Of The Deity Greater and add Half-Celestial template to the Death Knight...but i want to keep my Undead Traits.

First cast GVotD, then follow it up with a casting of Veil of Undeath (Libris Mortis).

It's even better than keeping the undead type, as you gain almost all of an undead creature's immunities, plus the immunities from not having a constitution score, all while being immune to effects that specifically target undead!

[Remuko]

Vile Death is a 9th-level spell. The only playable creature it works on is a vampire. A vampire has LA +8.

Unless you use Savage Species, I suppose. A mummified creature is arguably a mummy, and has low enough LA to be able to take levels in Ur-Priest.

I don't understand, it says it targets a corporeal undead creature. any Necropolitan would be an acceptable target, including the caster themself. theres other ways to become undead as well that should work fine.

[Buufreak]

Vile Death is a 9th-level spell. The only playable creature it works on is a vampire. A vampire has LA +8.

Even if you were talking about core only, why wouldn't a Lich be able to do this?

[Tiri]

I don't understand, it says it targets a corporeal undead creature. any Necropolitan would be an acceptable target, including the caster themself. theres other ways to become undead as well that should work fine.

The target is any corporeal undead creature, true.

However, the spell only has an actual effect on a very small subset of corporeal undead.

Namely:

bodak, devourer, ghast, ghoul, mohrg, mummy, nightshade, skeleton, vampire, vampire spawn, wight, or zombie

Nothing else.

[Buufreak]

The target is any corporeal undead creature, true.

However, the spell only has an actual effect on a very small subset of corporeal undead.

Namely:


Nothing else.

Ah. I wasn't aware it was reprinted in SC and was going off of HoH. Carry on.

[Remuko]

Ah. I wasn't aware it was reprinted in SC and was going off of HoH. Carry on.

Same the source I used didnt mention any of that. Those limitations seem incredibly silly imo. Oh well.

[Dlabuga]

I can't change Death Knight template...because its part of the history.

So...if I cast Visage of the Deity Greater...the DK (Undead) will change to Outsider.

I will lose the undead traits? cuz i see some Fiendish Undeads...but I'm no finding how it works.

[Zanos]

The original answer to your question has not changed. if you cast GVotD, your type changes to outsider, as per the spell description. You lose your undead traits and gain outsider traits.

Fiendish undead are presumably animated corpses of outsiders.

[Dlabuga]

The original answer to your question has not changed. if you cast GVotD, your type changes to outsider, as per the spell description. You lose your undead traits and gain outsider traits.

Fiendish undead are presumably animated corpses of outsiders.

Ok...and how about my Constitution (Con) score? it will be the score when he was alive?

[Zanos]

Ok...and how about my Constitution (Con) score? it will be the score when he was alive?
You lost your constitution score by virtue of your undead type, so losing the undead type would restore your constitution score to what it was when you were alive, yes.

[Thurbane]

However, the spell only has an actual effect on a very small subset of corporeal undead.

Could you argue that "Ghoul" would also apply to the "Gravetouched Ghoul" template (LA +2)?

[Dlabuga]

I think i found a solution:

My NPC is a Death Knight.

To use Vile Death spell i need to become a vampire.

If i use an epic scroll Kiss of the Vampire Persistent (7,800gp) - ill be a Vampire for 24h

Then i use my Rod of Fell Energy Spel Greater for Vile Death.

Then same process:

Scroll Kiss of the Vampire (Normal one) and Rod of Fell Energy Spel Greater for Infernal Transformation

Scroll Kiss of the Vampire (Normal one) and Rod of Fell Energy Spel Greater for Greater Visage of the Deity

[Kelb_Panthera]

The target is any corporeal undead creature, true.

However, the spell only has an actual effect on a very small subset of corporeal undead.

Namely:


Nothing else.

What an incredibly stupid nerf. No thanks, sticking to the (otherwise identical) HoH version.

[Remuko]

What an incredibly stupid nerf. No thanks, sticking to the (otherwise identical) HoH version.

Agree completely.

[Inevitability]

I think i found a solution:

My NPC is a Death Knight.

To use Vile Death spell i need to become a vampire.

If i use an epic scroll Kiss of the Vampire Persistent (7,800gp) - ill be a Vampire for 24h

Then i use my Rod of Fell Energy Spel Greater for Vile Death.

Then same process:

Scroll Kiss of the Vampire (Normal one) and Rod of Fell Energy Spel Greater for Infernal Transformation

Scroll Kiss of the Vampire (Normal one) and Rod of Fell Energy Spel Greater for Greater Visage of the Deity

What makes you think Kiss of the Vampire makes you a vampire? It says so nowhere in the spell description. It merely gives you abilities similar to one, but that's like saying Bear's Endurance turns you into a bear.

[Zanos]

Don't cast it on yourself, even if you can.


The resulting creature is independent of you and can act on its own.
Its initial attitude toward you is indifferent.

[Inevitability]

Don't cast it on yourself, even if you can.

It's a NPC, though. The DM is going to be in control of the resulting creature anyway.

[Zanos]

It's a NPC, though. The DM is going to be in control of the resulting creature anyway.
Not sure why an NPC would go through the trouble of removing himself from existence.

[Inevitability]

Not sure why an NPC would go through the trouble of removing himself from existence.

There's plenty of people, both in real life and fiction, who would willingly sacrifice themselves to advance their plans. If it can be ensured the new spirit has the same ideals as the death knight (and with the spirit being a pure manifestation of Evil, it seems likely), then said death knight may very well choose to cast the spell.

[Dlabuga]

There's plenty of people, both in real life and fiction, who would willingly sacrifice themselves to advance their plans. If it can be ensured the new spirit has the same ideals as the death knight (and with the spirit being a pure manifestation of Evil, it seems likely), then said death knight may very well choose to cast the spell.

How can I be assured that the new spirit will have the same ideals as DK

The DK dont have the same goal as your Demon Lord Demongorgon...he became more powerful and dont want to fight an endless battle in the abyss ... he wants to take the Material Plane for himself

btw the Kiss of the Vampire says:


You are treated as if you were undead for the purpose of all spells and effects.

Maybe a Vampire...just to make the Vile Death works...if dont I'll use the HoH one.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Not sure why an NPC would go through the trouble of removing himself from existence.

... how about so they can stop existing as an abomination of nature but still be a pain in the ass to the world they hate?

[Inevitability]

How can I be assured that the new spirit will have the same ideals as DK

The DK dont have the same goal as your Demon Lord Demongorgon...he became more powerful and dont want to fight an endless battle in the abyss ... he wants to take the Material Plane for himself

btw the Kiss of the Vampire says:



Maybe a Vampire...just to make the Vile Death works...if dont I'll use the HoH one.

1. I was just suggesting something. There's plenty of motivations for Death Knights, and some of those would have said knight consider his continued existence secondary to his duty.

As for knowing what the fiendish spirit wants, that's easy: just cast some divinations. Maybe make a deal with whatever dark power you serve.

2. Yes, you are treated as undead, but that's it. You're not treated as a particular kind of undead. You're not treated as a vampire. It's just a spell that gives vampire-ish stuff.

[Dlabuga]

1. I was just suggesting something. There's plenty of motivations for Death Knights, and some of those would have said knight consider his continued existence secondary to his duty.

As for knowing what the fiendish spirit wants, that's easy: just cast some divinations. Maybe make a deal with whatever dark power you serve.

2. Yes, you are treated as undead, but that's it. You're not treated as a particular kind of undead. You're not treated as a vampire. It's just a spell that gives vampire-ish stuff.

Got it! Thank you so much.

But I got another question.
When i adquire the Half Fiend template i got this:


Skills
A half-fiend gains skill points as an outsider and has skill points equal to (8 + Int modifier) × (HD + 3). Do not include Hit Dice from class levels in this calculation—the half-fiend gains outsider skill points only for its racial Hit Dice, and gains the normal amount of skill points for its class levels. Treat skills from the base creature’s list as class skills, and other skills as cross-class.

Challenge Rating
HD 4 or less, as base creature +1; HD 5 to 10, as base creature +2; HD 11 or more, as base creature +3.

I will add 8 + mod int x 3? or none?

and because of the spell Vile Death I will need to increase the NPC CR plus 3?

[Kelb_Panthera]

I will add 8 + mod int x 3? or none?

and because of the spell Vile Death I will need to increase the NPC CR plus 3?

You only recalculate skill points for racial hit dice when you create a fiendish Undead with vile death. Death Knights and vampires don't have any racial hit dice unless the base creature did.

As a consequence of this, you will not be adding any extra skill points unless the creature that it was when it was alive had a few HD before class levels.

[Thurbane]

Are we conflating the Fiendish and Half-fiend templates here? I don't believe Fiendish (which is what the spell grants) would change type in this case.

[Dlabuga]

Are we conflating the Fiendish and Half-fiend templates here? I don't believe Fiendish (which is what the spell grants) would change type in this case.

damm you are right!

Its Fiendish not Half-Fiend.

Thank you

[Anthrowhale]

...I want feathered wings and some boost....

An Ur-Priest is not a cleric, so the only effect of GVotD cast by an Ur-Priest is to change type to outsider. Everything else requires that you be either a good cleric or an evil cleric.