The 'DO NOT TOUCH': build help

[Specter]

Reading the other discussion about Armor of Agathys, I had a dream of a build for an NPC using Armor of Agathys and Contingency from Wizard to give the most damage possible to someone who dares attack him in melee.

I have two ways to go about this: Warlock/Wizard or Lore Bard.

With the first option, at least 1 Warlock level is mandatory, as are 11 Wizard levels for Contingency.
With the second option, it's two more levels total, but focusing on a single class.

- How would you do this?
- Is it better to buff yourself with the contingent spell or harm the attacker?
- Which spell is good to be made contingent? I see there's a restriction to spells that 'can target you'; does that mean no area spells like Lightning Bolt or Hypnotic Pattern, for instance?

[King539]

Fire Shield?

[tieren]

I wouldn't use contingency, takes too much effort to set up and then its gone in a single hit.

Look at tempest cleric's damage on hit ability and the warlock spell hellish rebuke.

I would stack armor of agathys, the tempest cleric's ability, spirit guardians, and hellish rebuke. Enemy takes damage getting to you, takes cold damage from AoA, takes lightning damage from cleric ability, takes fire damage from hellish rebuke. extra fun add in some storm sorcerer for the zap everyone around you ability.

[rooneg]

Reading the other discussion about Armor of Agathys, I had a dream of a build for an NPC using Armor of Agathys and Contingency from Wizard to give the most damage possible to someone who dares attack him in melee.

I have two ways to go about this: Warlock/Wizard or Lore Bard.

With the first option, at least 1 Warlock level is mandatory, as are 11 Wizard levels for Contingency.
With the second option, it's two more levels total, but focusing on a single class.

- How would you do this?
- Is it better to buff yourself with the contingent spell or harm the attacker?
- Which spell is good to be made contingent? I see there's a restriction to spells that 'can target you'; does that mean no area spells like Lightning Bolt or Hypnotic Pattern, for instance?

It's an NPC. You are playing 5e, not 3e. NPCs do not have class levels. You just give them the abilities you want them to have. You don't have to justify it to anyone by saying they're an 13th level wizard/2nd level warlock/4th level whatever. Just give them the abilities you want them to have.

[RulesJD]

Add 1-3 levels of Barbarian for Resistance to all to make your AoA last 2x as long. Use Abjuration Wizard to have the Ward let AoA last longer as well.

[Foxhound438]

Add 1-3 levels of Barbarian for Resistance to all to make your AoA last 2x as long. Use Abjuration Wizard to have the Ward let AoA last longer as well.

If you don't like the idea of barbarian for this, you can instead use your concentration on stoneskin, since you're already going wizard.

[Specter]

Fire Shield?

Good one.


I wouldn't use contingency, takes too much effort to set up and then its gone in a single hit.

Look at tempest cleric's damage on hit ability and the warlock spell hellish rebuke.

I would stack armor of agathys, the tempest cleric's ability, spirit guardians, and hellish rebuke. Enemy takes damage getting to you, takes cold damage from AoA, takes lightning damage from cleric ability, takes fire damage from hellish rebuke. extra fun add in some storm sorcerer for the zap everyone around you ability.

These are all good options, but I'm more interested in the 'single hit' factor you mentioned. Nova effect beats sustained damage for this. I want to hit the attacker so hard (with something like Finger of Death, for instance) that they have to reassess the whole battle strategy.


It's an NPC. You are playing 5e, not 3e. NPCs do not have class levels. You just give them the abilities you want them to have. You don't have to justify it to anyone by saying they're an 13th level wizard/2nd level warlock/4th level whatever. Just give them the abilities you want them to have.

I'm aware of that, but my players are experts and don't like guys created out of the blue with whatever. Besides, he'll still need to do something after he's hit.


Add 1-3 levels of Barbarian for Resistance to all to make your AoA last 2x as long. Use Abjuration Wizard to have the Ward let AoA last longer as well.

I would never multiclass a barbarian with spellcasters, and this has happen even before any action is taken by him in combat.


If you don't like the idea of barbarian for this, you can instead use your concentration on stoneskin, since you're already going wizard.

Good idea.

[CaptainSarathai]

These are all good options, but I'm more interested in the 'single hit' factor you mentioned. Nova effect beats sustained damage for this. I want to hit the attacker so hard (with something like Finger of Death, for instance) that they have to reassess the whole battle strategy.



I'm aware of that, but my players are experts and don't like guys created out of the blue with whatever. Besides, he'll still need to do something after he's hit.

Not sure if you originally got the idea from me, but I'm running AoA on a Fighter/Rogue/Warlock build. You don't technically need the Fighter levels, but I use them for Armor (and HAM), Shields, Riposte (when they miss) and Action Surge.

A 9th level AoA does 45 damage when hit. A 9th level Hellish Rebuke does the exact same thing. If you only care about outgoing damage and getting as much as possible, then just use Rebuke. Or just, y'know, use your highest level slot to actually wreck the whole party.

The point of AoA is to get the TempHP and convince people not to hit you. The actual amount of damage is secondary. If you're going to spend resources to boost it, you may as well just spend the resources to deal raw damage.

With any kind of damage reduction though, you're getting a lot more mileage. A 50% reduction pretty much guarantees that they're taking at least twice as much damage as you are (and you're only losing tempHP)

[Specter]

Not sure if you originally got the idea from me, but I'm running AoA on a Fighter/Rogue/Warlock build. You don't technically need the Fighter levels, but I use them for Armor (and HAM), Shields, Riposte (when they miss) and Action Surge.

A 9th level AoA does 45 damage when hit. A 9th level Hellish Rebuke does the exact same thing. If you only care about outgoing damage and getting as much as possible, then just use Rebuke. Or just, y'know, use your highest level slot to actually wreck the whole party.

The point of AoA is to get the TempHP and convince people not to hit you. The actual amount of damage is secondary. If you're going to spend resources to boost it, you may as well just spend the resources to deal raw damage.

With any kind of damage reduction though, you're getting a lot more mileage. A 50% reduction pretty much guarantees that they're taking at least twice as much damage as you are (and you're only losing tempHP)

Nope, another thread.

The point is not just the damage, it's the damage without moving a finger, and then, when my turn comes, doing even more damage. It's unexpected, and shifts a combat entirely as soon as this NPC is hit in melee. This is about making the PCs go from a primary strategy of underestimating a lone guy to figuring out how to drop him without having anyone killed.

But yes, if he goes first Stoneskin will be cast.

[Potato_Priest]

A 9th level AoA does 45 damage when hit. A 9th level Hellish Rebuke does the exact same thing. If you only care about outgoing damage and getting as much as possible, then just use Rebuke. Or just, y'know, use your highest level slot to actually wreck the whole party.


A 9th level AoA also does that for potentially several attacks: until the temp HP runs out.

Whatever you do, this guy should be able to cast a very high leveled AoA, otherwise it tends to be fairly lame. Sure, you might output 30-45 damage against a guy dual wielding daggers with the 3rd level version, but if anyone with GWM walks up to you it's all gone at once, and only deals 15 damage.

[CaptainSarathai]

A 9th level AoA also does that for potentially several attacks: until the temp HP runs out.

Right - but OP was saying that he's really only concerned with that first hit. And that's what I mean - you can get that effect lots of ways. The main selling point of AoA is the tempHP and multiple uses.

[bid]

It's unexpected, and shifts a combat entirely as soon as this NPC is hit in melee.
2 things:
- the "spectral frost" is a huge clue.
- ranged attacks clear this out without damage.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

I seem to remember seeing a really good Armor of Agathys Warlock 1/Abjurer build on these threads a while back, where you triggered Armor of Agathys by being hit but all the damage went out of the abjurer's buffer abililty, but it might have been declared unworkable by Sage Advice.

[Asmotherion]

Reading the other discussion about Armor of Agathys, I had a dream of a build for an NPC using Armor of Agathys and Contingency from Wizard to give the most damage possible to someone who dares attack him in melee.

I have two ways to go about this: Warlock/Wizard or Lore Bard.

With the first option, at least 1 Warlock level is mandatory, as are 11 Wizard levels for Contingency.
With the second option, it's two more levels total, but focusing on a single class.

- How would you do this?
- Is it better to buff yourself with the contingent spell or harm the attacker?
- Which spell is good to be made contingent? I see there's a restriction to spells that 'can target you'; does that mean no area spells like Lightning Bolt or Hypnotic Pattern, for instance?

I have 2 builds that do exactly that, both playtested:

First is Sorloc with Storm Sorcery. However it is mostly effective at levels 17-20 and epic (were it was playtested) so I won't analyse it too much. The idea is stacking Storm's Furry with Armor of Agathys, a fire shield and a possible Hellish Rebuke (untill Storm's Fury comes online/optionally when you do not want the control ability of SF), as well as focus on Melee Casting by taking shillelagh with Pact of the Tome (at warlock 3, wich is the max warlock level for this build), and Booming Blade for a thematic Storm Caster. The idea is not a Melee focused caster, but instead a mixed caster that can blast as well as he melees; Eldritch Blast+Hex and the occasional Lightning Bolt/Chain Lightning made sure of that, as well as the (very thematic as well) shocking grasp that, as a sorcerer I could cast with a 30 feet range when I needed. I haven't played the build at lower levels, but I don't think it's bad, it just gets a very massive buff at level 17 (14 + 3 warlock levels) wich also happens to be a key ability to the build. Storm's Fury is essential to the buld, not only because of the damage buff, but also, and mostly because of it's control ability; Even if they take the AoA damage everytime they hit you, you'd rather have the option to push them as a reaction when you need to save your AoA for the boss.

My second build is Fiend Warlock 2 Abjurer Wizard X. This buld focuses more on the survivability of the Caster, and less on the punishing part. Depending on your DM's interpretation, your Arcane Ward might not allow the opponent to take damage from AoA and Fire Shield; Mine did allow this; Discuss it with yours beforehand.

First, your most prominent stat should be Charisma. Your Wizard profession, even if it is your main class, is mostly to self buff (maybe others too) and utility. You won't be casting agressivelly as a wizard, overall you're a full-fleshed Eldritch Blaster. However, unlike your regular Blaster type, you're not one to run in fear as soon as an enemy aproaches towards you; Instead, you smirk and wait... until they realise you are a trap, it will already be too late. You have already a contigient Fire Shield and in your first turn you cast AoA. Then, start hexing and Eldritch Blasting people, till someone says "hey, he's a caster! I'll go at him and take him out myself." This is were he hits you, takes some damage (wile you take none), reaction cast Hellish Rebuke on him for even more damage, and then shocking grasp him to walk away unscratched. Then he has the option: Run away, realising the error of hitting you in melee, thus you proceed by blasting him more, or come back for an other serving of the same cold plate. Add Polearm Master+Booming Blade to your arsenal to make him regret running away/coming towards you in the first place, or Polearm Master+Sentinel to lock him in melee, and effectivelly make him loose all he could do as he can't run away and hitting you would result in too much damage to survive.

To add even more survivability, have things such as Mirror Image, Blink and even Blur (if you would rather buff your defance even more than hex people). Finally, have Globe of Invulnerability in your arsenal for enemy spellcasters, and if you wish a wall spell to stop projectiles (though, Mirror Image and Blur should already be enough). If you are comfortable giving up your 18th level at-will spells (or if your campain does not go that far), add 1 more Warlock level to get Pact of the Tome for Shilelagh, and become as amazing in melee as in ranged spellcasting.

Also, the Fiend part of the Warlock was playtested before clearificatipons on the spell. As of now, AoA can not be recharged by Fiend Pact, but it can still be usefull for replenishing temp HP after your AoA is out.

In my experiance, AoA is best cast with you second highest spell slot, saving your highest for something else. The contigient spell is best to be Fire Shield. Mirror Image should be the spell you have at-will at level 18 if you go down that path and be cast first round, even before AoA. Then, AoA, and finally Blink. This combination of spells raises your probability of surviving the encounter.

Other things to consider is Planar Binding+Conjure Elemental in order to have some minions that will protect you even further.

[Specter]

Thanks to all the advice, especially Asmotherion. I've decided to go Bard (for the campaign's purposes), and use a contingent Blight. With a 7th-level Agathys and that, we're looking at an average of 71 on a failed save, or 53 on a successful one. For 11th-level players, that should do some unexpected damage. After it's gone, Blur and Mirror Image should help a lot.

[Deleted]

I'm aware of that, but my players are experts and don't like guys created out of the blue with whatever. Besides, he'll still need to do something after he's hit.

It isn't out of the blue, it is using the base rules of the game.

NPCs don't have class levels, tell your group to get over it.