PDA

View Full Version : Party full of magic-users



Irreverent Fool
2007-07-20, 07:52 AM
So, I started a campaign a couple of weeks ago (Level 1). I have five players and I had their characters meet in-character as it is a group of experienced roleplayers who are all familiar with one another. I insisted that each character be created without knowledge of the others and that they not discuss their abilities/backstory/etc outside of the game. I'm happy to tweak the circumstances of the adventures to play to the characters abilities a little.

Well, we've had two sessions and I'm starting to run into some... I don't want to say 'problems' but I don't think I have a better work handy. Here's the current party:

Drow Warlock 1
Halfling Bard 2
Human Wizard 2 (conjurer specialization with alternative class feature from PHB2)
Human Artificer 2 (Eberron class, allowing it due to excellent fluff)
Tiefling Druid 1 (With shapeshift alternate from PHB2)

I love these guys, and their style is fine. The problem is really on my end: What's a good way to challenge a party of spellslingers like this?

Interesting sidenote: They came across a masterwork longsword carried by one of my baddies and nobody can use it.

Edit: Since I mentioned it, do you think I should tweak my loot a little more in their direction? Or should I leave that suit of half-plate at the end of the 3-4th level story arc?

Kurald Galain
2007-07-20, 07:56 AM
Well it looks like a pretty balanced party. There's an "archer", face / skillmonkey, two batmen, and a healer, with the conjurer and druid being able to cover for melee. Not too shabby, no?

iop
2007-07-20, 08:12 AM
There are plenty of monsters that can challenge the party. However, make sure not to throw too many that hit extra-hard, because none of your guys can easily meat-shield. A raging barbarian could easily take out one of the guys, which would be not fun.

As for loot, I give little, but I generally try to give useful stuff - however, that will be automatic if you send them against enemies that are casters, too.

Fenix_of_Doom
2007-07-20, 08:18 AM
Interesting sidenote: They came across a masterwork longsword carried by one of my baddies and nobody can use it.

Edit: Since I mentioned it, do you think I should tweak my loot a little more in their direction? Or should I leave that suit of half-plate at the end of the 3-4th level story arc?

I would disadvise against leaving a lot useless items like half-plates in treasure chambers, but if you want to equip a baddie with it then why not? They can always sell it.

Shisumo
2007-07-20, 08:19 AM
Is there any hint that any of them would want to multiclass?

Also, anything they don't use they can always sell...

Jimbob
2007-07-20, 08:23 AM
I think it looks like a great party and would love to play in some thing like that, but in my group it never seems to play out liek that, but any way. I think it depends what they fight. If they fight a fighter type, he will have armor, a sword and shield. Its not your fault they cant use it, and they can always sell it, and by the looks of it, at least one party memeber should have some sort of item creation feat.

Anxe
2007-07-20, 08:26 AM
Leave the fighter type treasure in and suggest to the players that they multiclass if they want to use it.

Human Paragon 3
2007-07-20, 08:56 AM
From experience, a hoard of little monsters will be more of a challange than one big monster, especially little monsters with ranged attacks. They wil generally be able to initiate grapples with your spellcasters even without Improved Grapple due to the wizards woeful attacks of opportunity and grapple modifiers. Armor spells won't help on their touch attacks either (I think). Make sure they quickly infiltrate your PCs ranks or else they'll be decimated by area of effect spells.

One big monster can be easily nuetralized by your party, though unless he has great saves, SR and/or the intelligence to ignore summoned monsters and attack the spellcasters.

Also, while your PCs will be good at dealing damage, neutralizing threats, controlling the battlefield and any number of things, they won't be adept at tanking or standing toe to toe with... well, anything (except probably the druid). If you want even matches for your party, use enemies with low damage output and good saves, AC, and HP. If you want to make an enemy easier to beat, lower their HP and saves. If you want an overwhelming challange, give the monsters high damage output. They will instantly become a dire threat no matter how weak they are in other aspects.

EDIT: Your tiefling druid is using the shapeshift varient which will make him plenty tough in combat, but since he lacks a full BAB and his AC will be atrocous (probably around 16) he still does not make a super-effective combatant. Don't start a grapple with him while he's in animal form unless you're using a larger enemy, becusae his STR enhancement will give him the edge. Also, he will probably like an assortment of small monsters and not one big threat, unlike the other casters in your group. Keep this in mind while designing encounters.

Silentmaster101
2007-07-20, 08:59 AM
iron and flesh golems are their worst enemy eh?

JellyPooga
2007-07-20, 09:18 AM
Interesting sidenote: They came across a masterwork longsword carried by one of my baddies and nobody can use it.

Aren't Elves automatically proficient with Longswords? Aren't Drow Elves? Correct me if I'm wrong (which I probably am), but I thought that Drow still got the Elven proficiency.

Kaelaroth
2007-07-20, 09:19 AM
Give them the treasure previously planned, and let them selll it for slightly over market price?
Alternatively, fill armour with silver pieces.

Overlard
2007-07-20, 09:26 AM
Aren't Elves automatically proficient with Longswords? Aren't Drow Elves? Correct me if I'm wrong (which I probably am), but I thought that Drow still got the Elven proficiency.
I think rapier proficiency replaces it.

I'm currently in a high level all-caster party. The DM keeps putting us up against things that have extremely crazy saves, high SR or even immunity to magic. Then he complains that we're using spells that ignore SR and don't allow saves...

Long story short, don't make every big encounter tailored to nullify spellcasters. Let them shine every so often.

PinkysBrain
2007-07-20, 09:35 AM
I disagree with the Sage, outsider type should give martial weapon proficiency ... Planetouched +1 LA is too harsh as it is without taking that away from them. In which case the Tiefling could use it.

Mike_Lemmer
2007-07-20, 09:35 AM
I would keep the half-plate; giving the party just one nice item wouldn't work for the end of a story arc anyway. Let them sell it off and trickle in magic trinkets for each of them. I'd look in the Magic Item Compendium; there's quite a few good caster items in there for 500-1500 gold apiece.

Longshanks
2007-07-20, 09:52 AM
Sounds like fun to me. You would just have to tailor your encounters so they don't end up getting seriously beat all the time...:smallsmile:

Sornjss Lichdom
2007-07-20, 10:26 AM
OK from what a read, try making the baddies brother come and activate the swords hiddin magical abiliaty, which is an antimagic field, that will screw with casters.

Thinker
2007-07-20, 10:48 AM
Yeah, "I know we're playing a 2nd level game, but here's a level 6 spell for you to handle. Whats that you say? Its only a 10ft radius and it doesn't affect the PCs? Crap."

the_tick_rules
2007-07-20, 11:06 AM
get opponets into melee combat with them, high numbers of low cr opponets like goblins would work.

Irreverent Fool
2007-07-20, 01:18 PM
EDIT: Your tiefling druid is using the shapeshift varient which will make him plenty tough in combat, but since he lacks a full BAB and his AC will be atrocous (probably around 16) he still does not make a super-effective combatant. Don't start a grapple with him while he's in animal form unless you're using a larger enemy, becusae his STR enhancement will give him the edge. Also, he will probably like an assortment of small monsters and not one big threat, unlike the other casters in your group. Keep this in mind while designing encounters.

Excellent advice, I was noticing that through our first couple of sessions. He tends to take out CR 1-2's in the same round he decides he wants to bite them. I've been tending toward 1-2 badasses or a 5-7 lesser enemies. Thanks!


I disagree with the Sage, outsider type should give martial weapon proficiency ... Planetouched +1 LA is too harsh as it is without taking that away from them. In which case the Tiefling could use it.

I agree. The problem here is that he spends most of his time shapeshifted and he took a lot of time and effort in deciding exactly what race/class/alternative feature he wanted. I warned him of the limits of planetouched and dropping the possibility of Wildshape and he said he was sure, this is what he wanted to do. Even if he could use it, it wouldn't be much use.


I think it looks like a great party and would love to play in some thing like that, but in my group it never seems to play out liek that, but any way. I think it depends what they fight. If they fight a fighter type, he will have armor, a sword and shield. Its not your fault they cant use it, and they can always sell it, and by the looks of it, at least one party memeber should have some sort of item creation feat.

Heh, Jimbob. Item Creation is practically all Artificers do (aside from 'infusions' which is how they cast spells). They're quite a useful class and despite certain issues with them, I'm allowing it in my game (which is not Eberron) because I was worried about item creation and its prohibitive costs. Their chief ability is that they can create items for which they don't meet the prerequisites. In fact, he's taken a couple of feats which further lower the costs and time involved to make items (Artifcers already have advantages in this area). I suggest taking a look at them if you have access to the Eberron campaign setting book.

Superglucose
2007-07-20, 01:28 PM
Heh... at least you didn't have wizard/wizard/sorcerer/bard. Our tank was a Bard for crying out loud... Druids at least have decent combat abilities.

Matthew
2007-07-22, 09:17 PM
I think rapier proficiency replaces it.

Not in 3.5:


Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats.

It was, however, the case in 3.0.